IronFist vs. Wing Chun forum

[IronFist]

Hey, let's play make a deal. Instead of telling me how unsuccessful I will be with my chosen method of learning, can you instead stick to just helping me out, or at least answering my questions? (You know, I could really be a 60 year old WC guru and I'm just testing all of your knowledge by asking basic questions. haha, or not :D ) Sorry if there's no WC in my area (my area = a 1 hour radius by car).

I like WC because it's a cool art. I don't like TKD or Shotokan or X art, so I'm not going to study those. If you wanted to learn a foreign language and thought Russian was cool, and the only languages any schools in your area offered were Spanish and German, and you wanted to learn Russian, would you settle for Spanish or German? No. Because you don't have interest there.

I'm not a total newbie to martial arts or physical culture, plus I think I have the aptitude to learn at least somewhat successfully from videos and books. Granted, most of the videos I've seen are bits of this and pieces of that, but the people here who are cool enough to give me straight up answers have totally helped. Seriously, I've learned more here than from any books on WC I've seen. Indeed, I think I can safely say every book on WC I've seen sucks (if you want names, I don't remember, but go to Borders and look there. Those are the ones I've seen).

I've even got a few MA's here to do drills with, and a TKD guy back home I can do chi sao with. Yes, he's TKD, but he's got 10+ years at a hard ass school that's definately not a McDojo. This guy is brimming with talent. I taught him single hand chi sao a few weeks ago, but haven't been able to practice much cuz he went on a trip. But hey, feel free to tell me how you're sure we're doing it wrong because we didn't learn from a teacher.

So, if you want to be a díck and answer my questions with "dude you can't learn from videos, find a sifu, study a different art," then please don't bother answering cuz it's just a waste of bandwidth. If you want to be cool and help me out, then rock on!

Besides, if I totally suck at this WC thing after a few months I'll probably quit anyway. I don't like things that I'm not good at :D

Oh well. Time to go finish my program for C class.

IronFist

[straight blast]

Well said.

[Rolling_Hand]

Todd Shawn Tei has many WC videos for sale.

Good luck...hahaha!!!

[PHILBERT]

Guys, its obvious he is pretty freaking dedicated to learning the art, to spend his money on expensive books and tapes in a hope to learn the style. It is unfortunate there are no schools in his area and for him to try and learn despite the fact the school isnt there shows some dedication.

[Frank Exchange]

IronFist, sometimes life just isn't fair.

For example, there are about twenty different ways to do bong sao, dependent on which lineage the bong comes from. Each has its strengths and weaknessses, reasons for doing it that particular way, some are concept based, some are technique based. Many are totally incompatible with each other. Some lift the bong, some drive to the shoulder, some turn and absorb. Some are defensive, some are aggressive.

Which are you going to learn? The one advocated by your most recent correspondent here? You cannot learn all variations. And this is just bong sao. What about the stance? Punching? Turning on the heels or toes? Chisao?

Its a hard truth to swallow, but it is a truth nonetheless; Despite your obvious interest and dedication, you cannot learn WC effectively from books or videos, or from public forums like this.

>> Besides, if I totally suck at this WC thing after a few months I'll probably quit anyway. I don't like things that I'm not good at <<

It would be a great shame for this to happen. But without tuition, it probably will.

Im sorry, I know this is a negative post, and I know it is exactly what you don't want to hear, but at least I have tried to give you the reasons why I think this way. Is there a chance you will move to a more WC friendly neighbourhood in the near future?

[monkey man]

Being a relative newcomer to this forum, I'm not sure what has gone on or been said in the past regarding your particular situation, but to learn solely from books and videos is to do a great discredit to wing chun as an art - and to yourself. I do not doubt your passion and determination for wanting to learn WC, but there are so many subtleties within learning ANY martial art, that attempting to learn them without suitable supervision is foolish. You only start 'getting' the point of forms and chi sao when you practice with someone with experience, as it comes down to feel rather than a visual appreciation. You cannot get a sense of sensitivity from books or videos.

Regardless of your attraction to WC, if I were you I would join up with a martial arts school that is in your local vicinity. You will get much more out of learning from a 'real-life' teacher, and praticing with a number of different people on different levels and with different aptitudes for different things.


I hope you do not take offence to any of these comments, as none has been intended.

[Joakim Svensson]

Maybe you can find a teacher that are willing
to give you private lessons every other month
or so ?
And even better try to find a training partner
that are willing to join you in this.

I don't know where you live but finding a
teacher within 8 hours driving by car might
be possible.

Good luck

Best regards
Joakim

www.go.to/wingchun
www.wing-chun.nu
www.wingchun.com

[red5angel]

Ironfist, where are you located again? I say rock on brother! do what you have to do to learn. Alot of people are going to tell you you cant learn that way. In some respects you are going to have a larger challenge then those of us with teachers.
Take some advice that has been given to you though. Instead of gobbling up every video and book you find, save some money, and when you are ready, go visit a good teacher for a weekend. Seriously. you can pick up the basics and jist of things from video, but you need some definite guidance, and even once or twice a year will do wonders for you.

[Alpha Dog]

Is a robotic Chi Sao machine!! Maybe the Japanese will produce something for solopsistic Wing Chun practicioners in the near future -- might even revive their economy!

[reneritchie]

Good luck with your WCK! If you can get someone to practice with you, it'll make it easier. If, as Joy suggested, you can get to a quality sifu every once and a while, you can also make it a lot better.

AD - A couple years ago on the WCML one of the William Cheung folks mentioned they were working on a Chi Sao machine. (Wooden Dummies around the world are probably cheering at the chance to strike back!)

RR

[Alpha Dog]

The problem with a William Cheung chisao machine is that no one will know how it works! Just kidding

[IronFist]

Originally posted by monkey man

Regardless of your attraction to WC, if I were you I would join up with a martial arts school that is in your local vicinity. You will get much more out of learning from a 'real-life' teacher, and praticing with a number of different people on different levels and with different aptitudes for different things.


I've studied other arts at different schools before, so I have learned from a 'real-life' teacher and practiced with a bunch of different people there. Like I said, I'm not a complete newbie to MA.


I hope you do not take offence to any of these comments, as none has been intended.

Nope, none taken at all. Thanks for your input :)

IronFist

[Rolling_Hand]

Quote:
--The problem with William Cheung chisao machine is that no one will know how it works.

LOOK ::::::::::::> Read Rene Ritchie's Lips....!?

[stonecrusher69]

If your not able to go to a good sifu why don't you find a couple of guys who are interested in WC then see if you can set up a seminar near your place with a sifu your interested in learning from.

[yenhoi]

Stonecrusher has a great idea. It doesnt even need to be people interested specifically in WC, just MAists with an open mind.

Ironfist I think you should just quit and crawl under a rock. There you can think about pak sau drills without all this noise.

[IronFist]

Ironfist I think you should just quit and crawl under a rock. There you can think about pak sau drills without all this noise.

Maybe while I'm there I can work on my book entitled "Principles of Muscular Anatomy for Wing Chun Stylists." This book will put an end once and for all to the phrase "you must do X technique with no muscle."

:D

IronFist

[stonecrusher69]

of course you use your muscle in WC how could you move your arm. It just you don't need to use strong muscle contractions like say in hung ga.

[Mr Punch]

When? Where?

That's gotta be the dumbest challenge I ever heard, but if you live, it's one helluva way to learn!!! :D :eek: :D :D

[wingchunalex]

go for it man. the sorry thing is that i have not seen very many good wc videos out. the only ones i would recomend are the one's from augustine fong. i don't trust benny ming. so i don't recomend his videos. he blantenly says that hung fa yi is superior to other wing chun styles (it was in a article on this web site call "is your martial art a system or a style). but then he comes out with yip man style videos. ???!!!. the yip brothers are ok a guess. in my oppinion they focus way to much on chi sau. and i have other reason, but i wount go into that (it would be rude). william cheung's videos are strange. he ends every aplication with like 6 chain puches and a karate punch to the throat. if your stikes are good you don't need 6 chain punches. but his videos are at least interesting because his forms are a lot different that other wing chun people. a really good book on wing chun is "yuen kay san wing chun kuen" by renie richie. its really good, it shows some good drills and a lot of good aplications. its a lot better than those books that just go thru sil lim tau. sorry if i sound so negative, but i hope this helps.

[Sharky]

Deal.

[KungFuGrrrl]

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
Todd Shawn Tei has many WC videos for sale.

Good luck...hahaha!!!

[KungFuGrrrl]

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
Todd Shawn Tei has many WC videos for sale.

Good luck...hahaha!!!

So you bash my Sifu again.

do you REALLY believe you are hurting his school, or his GOOD name in the community? HA

You sit and bash him and God knows how many other people and for WHAT purpose?

Do you even HAVE a purpose in life other than to use up valuable oxygen and space on the earth?!?

Obviously not, perhaps you are one of the rejects from the school who was banished for lying, stealing or some other illegal activity.

Meanwhile, Sifu goes about teaching (as our school continues to grow) , doing good deeds, and becoming an even more prominant person in the community

[SAAMAG]

I think he might be basing it on what he sees from TST. I've only seen a little of him, and wasn't too impressed. But then without touching hands...you really don't know do you?

Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes straight to the bone.

[KungFuGrrrl]

Originally posted by Vankuen
I think he might be basing it on what he sees from TST. I've only seen a little of him, and wasn't too impressed. But then without touching hands...you really don't know do you?

Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes straight to the bone.

That's all well and good but Sifu taught me - if I have opinions thats fine but I keep them to myself. as I posted before,

I have NEVER wtnessed Sifu bashing someone. In fact He invites other Sifus to our school so we can see what else is out there and even IF he disagrees with their teaching he is RESPECTFUL of them while they are there AND after they leave.

things I read on this board are malicious, rude and hurtful to me.
I have seen Sifu Tei help MANY people in MANY ways

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Kungfugrrrl,
You might wish to note that the post in question was made over 2 years ago. Rolling_hand, the poster in question, was banned awhile back (note it says "banned" under his name). So this person has already been addressed. You might want to consider such before bringing things back to everyone's attention :D

[Vash]

If Ironfist uses his muscles, he will be ownzord.

However, if he brings up lineage, he will crush the Wing Chun forum.

[KungFuGrrrl]

Originally posted by Sandman2[Wing Chun]
Kungfugrrrl,
You might wish to note that the post in question was made over 2 years ago. Rolling_hand, the poster in question, was banned awhile back (note it says "banned" under his name). So this person has already been addressed. You might want to consider such before bringing things back to everyone's attention :D

Perhaps the moderator should remove old posts, I didnt bring anything up
And if the info is STILL out there, than people are hearing negativity about My Sifu,

therefore I am obligated to respond and put some light on what I feel needs to be addressed
perhaps I will just start reporting all negative BASHING re MY Sifu to the moderator and such people will be booted.

I READ a post that was on this board.

Im happy he was booted

[SAAMAG]

Kung fu Grrrl,

Although you hold your sifu in high regard (which is a good thing) you must understand this is a public forum and the laws of free speech apply here (up to the moderator's discretion of course...). Everything from praise to bashing can be found on here, and it is up to the members of the forum to do with that information what they choose. They can believe what they want and dispute what they want. But the banning of negativity would be a negative thing in and of itself. Just like yin and yang, a lot of times you need both to get a clear picture. Not to say there is anything negative about your sifu to be known.

Have you ever heard the phrase "bad press is better then no press?" Here is a hypothetical example in this case: If someone had never heard of TST, and saw this post...that might incline them to seek out his information or his school, and contrary to the reason that brought them there they may like what they see and study under him. So you see, not all negativity, contrary to it's surface, is bad.

[KungFuGrrrl]

Originally posted by Vankuen
Kung fu Grrrl,

Although you hold your sifu in high regard (which is a good thing) you must understand this is a public forum and the laws of free speech apply here (up to the moderator's discretion of course...). Everything from praise to bashing can be found on here, and it is up to the members of the forum to do with that information what they choose. They can believe what they want and dispute what they want. But the banning of negativity would be a negative thing in and of itself. Just like yin and yang, a lot of times you need both to get a clear picture. Not to say there is anything negative about your sifu to be known.

Have you ever heard the phrase "bad press is better then no press?" Here is a hypothetical example in this case: If someone had never heard of TST, and saw this post...that might incline them to seek out his information or his school, and contrary to the reason that brought them there they may like what they see and study under him. So you see, not all negativity, contrary to it's surface, is bad.

Point taken,

Still, I "gotta do what I gotta do" I will NOT sit idly by and let people BASH my Sfiu or ANYone I hold in high regard for that matter. That is ABUSE
Besides my Sifu does not need bad press, he has plenty of good press, so I would not agree on that note.

If someone said to me or others, Well I disagree with his teachings THAT is much different and not as offensive as
what an idiot HAHAHAHA
did you see his videos omg!!!!!!!(or other GOSSIP) and if they have the right to BASH well, then I have the right to respond, Im sure if I had time I could dig up dirt on many people who mouth off and post it -

And on other message boards That I visit bashing is NOT allowed, I feel that is a good rule.

There is NO purpose in BASHING. If a person is UNABLE to disagree and have different opinions and have an intelligent discussion they should be reprimanded and that is my opinion.

I have an article coming out in the magazine and afterward I will make a VERY informative post on my Sifu. THEN, I will let it drop, because MUCH positive information will be out and people will then have something to measure all this nonsense to. As for right now , on this site anyway, I have not read any good things about him, only negative, and that is misrepresenting him in my eyes and in the eyes of my Kung Fu brothers and sisters.

[SAAMAG]

This is true, "bashing" is unnecessary in any form. I think, although I did use the term bashing, in retrospect I think I should have used simply positive vs negative information. Not necessarily bashing. So I see your point as well. The phrases like "what an idiot" and such we could do without....but as I read somewhere else on this forum "if we banned all the idiots there would be no one left on the forum!" (Don't know where that originated from though.)

I on occasion, do have my smart remarks and heated debates, but mostly over personal opinion and not slander of a person. Unless of course I have personal interaction with the person in question. (See anything on Shaolin Do - but please, no new posts)

Is your article going to be in THIS mag? Or another MA mag?

[KungFuGrrrl]

Originally posted by Vankuen
This is true, "bashing" is unnecessary in any form. I think, although I did use the term bashing, in retrospect I think I should have used simply positive vs negative information. Not necessarily bashing. So I see your point as well. The phrases like "what an idiot" and such we could do without....but as I read somewhere else on this forum "if we banned all the idiots there would be no one left on the forum!" (Don't know where that originated from though.)

I on occasion, do have my smart remarks and heated debates, but mostly over personal opinion and not slander of a person. Unless of course I have personal interaction with the person in question. (See anything on Shaolin Do - but please, no new posts)

Is your article going to be in THIS mag? Or another MA mag?

Your response is much appreciated.
Yes in Kung Fu mag on stands in Feb.

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by IronFist
I've studied other arts at different schools before, so I have learned from a 'real-life' teacher and practiced with a bunch of different people there. Like I said, I'm not a complete newbie to MA.


Maybe not a newbie to MA, but you said you are a newbie to WC, right?

There is a good deal of WC that can concievably be developed with the aid of books, video and other media. Check out Yip Pui's (http://www.yipwingchun.com/) website.
He has a correspondance program that might interest you.

But, the heart of WC, chi sau, is very difficult to cultivate without touching hands with someone experienced.

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Originally posted by KungFuGrrrl
Perhaps the moderator should remove old posts,

Actually, I am the moderator. Note how it says "moderator" under my name. The post in question, at its very worst, implies rolling_hand doesnt' think highly of your sifu. While we do ask people to be polite here, people are not required to speak highly of someone else that they don't think highly of. But that is neither here nor there, I was merely pointing out that you were trying to have an inflammed conversation with someone who hasn't been on here in a while. :)