Judo-Kai Warriors Tonight!

[Budokan]

The segment about the crimpled-nut judo-kai warriors who bang each other in the marbles and then hobble off like winos with semi-hard ons will be on the Discovery Channel tonight. Including the chick who failed her judo-kai test because she passed out--but the instructor covers for her and says she was just "resting". Also featured, the fat a$$ akidoka who chain smokes. Give it a look if you've never seen it. Note: it's even funnier after a six-pack of Budweiser with Jim Beam chasers.

;)

[Merryprankster]

Yup.

Just what we need--sensei beating on student while student stands there acting like a fat scared little kid.

Sheesh.

[Merryprankster]

Oooo... and the famous one hit kill. This should be a FUN episode.

Good lord!

[guohuen]

Just caught it a few minutes ago. What a fecking fat arse punk! The best part of that cretin ran down his mothers leg! I got something for that boy! If you can't tell I'm really p*ssed off. A few of the assistants need some applied physical phycology also! I'll shut up now before I start foaming at the mouth. I'd blast through those weak *ss blocks and brain that fat retard!

[Black Jack]

That was F@ucking pathetic, what the hell is combat-ki, where did I miss this cult, was I on vacation?????

I did like the Karateka part in the very beginning, besides that, what the hell again is combat-ki???? That fake crap is on par with Mooney!

[ewallace]

I'll have to admit I thought the ninja stuff was pretty cool. The show that's on now is pretty cool. Talking about the shaolin monks.

[guohuen]

I dunno, but I could get aroused at the thought of beating that punk!
P.S I'm refering to the ron or rod punk. Combat ki:rolleyes:

[red_fists]

Black Jack,

I spoke to one of the Combat-Ki Guys over on E-Budo.
They are bassically a bunch of JMA that train in "Iron Skill Qi-Gong".

From what I gathered the only take experiecned MA as Students, but the Guy said that not many stay until they start with the higher level Qi-Gong(Golden Bell and so on).

Just for what's worth. Haven't seen the program yet, Japanese Discovery sucks on MA coverage.

[Black Jack]

Red Fist,

Yeah, those guys on the program looked real experienced, real fierce;)

One dude was hobbling away after getting kicked in the nards, the lady who failed, I don't even want to go their, sheesh!

Peace.

[ewallace]

I'd have to say that last one was one of the better M/A docus that Discovery has shown.

[NorthernMantis]

Oh noo I missed it. Will there be any re-runs?Whyyyyy didn't I read this better yesterday:o

[shaolinboxer]

That karate-ka they featured (the master, not his big disciple) was wicked loose (in a good way).

To bad about their choice of aikido-ka.

[ewallace]

I am sure they will but not this week. Here is the link for the shows on the D.C.
http://dsc.discovery.com/schedule/weekly.jsp?channel=DSC

[Nichiren]

Show me a guy who masters golden bell and I will show him my size 9 Doc Martins.... :p

[guohuen]

If they're EEE can I borrow them?:D

[Ray Pina]

I don't know. I'm not so quick to dispell someone who can take a shot to the open throat like that -- though I;'d like to be the one doing the hitting before I fully judge it.

I thought the Aikido was weak. Everything was fed to the students playing maong themselves and even the senei.

I liked some of the hand 2 hand of the ninpo believe it or not.

Surprisingly I liked the karate they showed. Especially the older guy in front of that wall for like a second or two.

What I was really impressed with was Cung Lee. Not so much his technique, but attitude. He's a great representative for martial artists. I wa shocked to see he was a heavy weight. He didn't look so big.

I wonder if it was the selected editing, or if his aponant was that bad. They did not look of the same caliber. At the same time, I have to say I believe my training is preparing me to fight such men. I didn't see too much technique.

But I'd like it if someone can explain that move where he grabs and then twists and flips the guy down. He pulled it off a few times against a fighting apponant so it does work. How does he enter? How does one exit it? I'm going to have to get some tapes.

I was happy with him though. A great man. Good. That's what we need. I hope to be fighting him or an equal in 2 years. That's my goal.

[Merryprankster]

E-fist:

If you think that Cung Le "doesn't have much technique," you are in for a brutal reality check if you step up to somebody of his caliber. His transitions from kicking the snot out of you to dropping you on your ass are pure poetry.

As far as the "scissors kick," it's simple in principle; there is a Judo throw that is similar---I think it's called Kani Basami, but I'll let the real Judoka on this board correct my Japanese.

In a nut shell--hit 'em high, hit 'em low. There are two entries from a side kick--

You fake the side kick. The kick goes BEHIND the opponent. You come off the ground, move INTO him to get the hips tight to the opponent, and then spin so that you begin to belly down. The kick leg would go to his calf level or so. The leg that was the support leg rolls over to hit them around the hips or higher. The momentum carries your opponent to their back while you land chest down.

Or--you fake the side kick. The kick goes in FRONT of the opponent. You come off the ground, shooting into him to get hips tight to the opponenst, and spin so you begin to go back down. The kick leg would hit high and the support leg low in this case. You would land sitting up.

I have seen him use both, depending on the opponent's reactions.

[guohuen]

The throat punch was faked. The strike was with an open hand to the top of the breast plate with the thumb and forefinger on either side of the throat. Try it on yourself. Not very impressive.

[Merryprankster]

guohen--

EXACTLY!!!! I was thinking the same things!

[wu_de36]

The throat chop was indeed low. The punch to the trachea was hooked and hit the muscles on the left side. It wasn't even that hard a punch.

What was up with all those palm strikes to the solar plexus, and that lame step side kick to the chest. there should have been a robot in the room with red flashers yelling CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT!

Now, that shaolin dude in the next show taking the roundhouse kicks w/o a flinch, that was pretty good.

The overweight american guy getting his ass beat by the instructor was sad. Sad that the kid thought getting his chubby butt slammed for a few hours was "instruction" and sad that the instructor seemed to get his jollies beating the crap out of him. I wasn't sure what part of that story angered me more.

I was impressed by the old goju-ryu guy, the guy who did the fingertip break, and the ninjas. Ninjas are cool, and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

Notice how the ninja guy was probably the most humble and gentle teacher of them all. Guy gets hurt, he makes sure he's OK. He doesn't laugh, etc.

[Ray Pina]

Please show me where I said I was NOT impressed by his technique. Here's my quote: "What I was really impressed with was Cung Lee. Not so much his technique, but attitude. "

His technique was fine, but I'll tell you what, it wasn't overly impressive. Yes, he transitioned well. I hope so, he's a professional fighter. But there are guys with tons of power who transition well and ALSO have good technique -- they just aren't on television or fighting pro. Or not fighting pro YET.

I actually applouded his comments and take downs -- even the jumping round house kick which I am against, becaue you leave youself open for soemone to step in, catch you and drop you on their knee from behind -- inviting a wierd look from a friend chilling in the other room. Wanted to see what I got so excited about.

I thought he was good. Like I said, that is the callibre of fighter I want to be going up against. If you don't know me nor my technique, I suggest you try to catch the show again and listen to what this fine fighter said.

In summary: "He was tall, had power. But you can't judge anotherc fighter or his style until you fight it."

Ba GUa, Hsing-I and E-chuan has much to offer anyone with a serious attitude and aproach. Its a matter of training and experience -- as with anything

[Merryprankster]

And MY point is that if you fail to recognize the "technical prowess," for lack of a better term right now, that Cung Le brings to the table, then I really think you're missing something, however much you might acknowledge him as a fighter and a person.

[shaolinboxer]

I fought one of Cung Le's students, and one of my training partners at the time fought Ott. I'll never forget the sensation of being lifted completely off my feet by my crotch and landing on my head. It was a good match and I lost to the champ in my weight division (insert excuse here).

Cung is a professional fighter and an excellent trainer. He has years of experience and plenty of fights under his belt. I've seen him switch styles midmatch to adapt to his opponents. He is very technical.

Something I found helpful was to watch video of myself fighting full contact. You rmember how things felt, and sometimes seeing what it actually looked like can be a revelation.

IMO, K-1 has the most technical fights (meaning quantity of fights that are very technical, rather than having a higher top quality). One of the best fihgts I ever saw was k-1 1998....kocky guy vs subtle guy...kocky guy whacking full roundhouses to the other guys arms...then the subtle guy faked a right cross to the body, ocky guy drops his arms and WHACK, full roudhouse to the face for the KO (with the most lovely SLAP you'll ever hear). I watched that beautiful combo about 100 times in slowmo and added it to my own set of combos. Total perfection.

[Ima Pseudonym]

i have actually met the rather rotund "soke" in question. did my early years in a shorin-ryu dojo when i was younger. he did a seminar there claiming all sorts of things. i have him on tape (it's about 12 years ago) claiming to know "hundreds" of chinese styles in addition to mastering all okinawan and japanese styles, lol. i was 14 and ignorant about the martial arts at the time, so i was suitably impressed. he did a lot of throwing his top student around, had him demo breakfalls and a few forms as well as the by now notorious "ain't gotta' block if it don't hurt" techniques. even gave a "special" treat of showing us his secret "white crane" style that is never to be videoed, yet the camera keeps rolling.

now, to the present. saw this special a couple of months ago and again last night. as we were laughing i told my roommate i had "exclusive" footage of this turkey. he almost peed himself with glee. now, i don't have much background in throwing but my buddy was instructor level in aiki-jujitsu (sp?) so together we are pretty well-rounded reviewers. after fast forwarding through at least a half hour of bragging he starts doing the throws. according to my roommate nothing special, just basic stuff with his student helping quite a bit. then the nut kicks and throat punches. most were off target as has been stated before, but he had our instructors punching and kicking his student, so i at least know they were honest on there part. after quite a bit of that drivel he starts into weapon forms, same **** you can learn at every mcdojo, but then came the "secret" white crane system that was supposed to be kung fu. OH MY GOD, i almost gave myself a hernia laughing. if crane is waving your hands around like the only straight guy at a gay dance club then this guy has it down, f*cking hilarious. no power, no technique, no nothin'. sure he "could" have been just going through the motions to give us a taste, but it looked like he was making it up as he went... freak lol.

anyways, that's my bit, if i was more technologically advanced i would try to post a clip, but as i am not, i will answer anymore questions ya'll might have

D

[Black Jack]

From the show it looks like he prays on middle age soccer moms and the retarded for a student base.

When you saw him, were a lot of his students female?

[Ryu]

Black Jack,
No f**** sh1t! :mad: I don't mean to curse, but that's really how I felt about that guy. He seems almost like a borderline sadomasachist. :mad: These kinds of people prey on weaker people and get off on just beating the hell out of them. When he says "cuz you know one you get up there, there's no one who can help you.." to the female student.... you could just tell how tingly he felt saying it. The guy is probably a pervert. :mad:
Even the karateka at the beginning of the show, (though nothing like Rod) still made a habit of beating up his student who was not really allowed to fight back.
He just had to stay there and take it as his "sensei" took pleasure in punching him out.
Well look, I'm all for conditioning, guys, but I think it's rather cowardly for the student "not to be allowed" to fight back. That kind of "take the pain" garbage is more "cultist" to me then conditioning. Conditioning comes from what you saw Cung Le doing. I would never just intentionally try to hurt my students. There's no art in that. Plus, if you have to make the guy "not fight back" then you probably have some scaredy cat issues yourself....

I loved the Cung Le segment. That guy is simply awesome!
AND it has really gotten me interested in san shou guys! :) His transitions from punching to the clinch and takedown are wonderful. I try to achieve the same smoothness.

Ryu

[Ima Pseudonym]

when he came to our school it was just him, his wife, and his top student David, but he did talk about how tough his female students were and how he made his wife train only with men so she would have an edge over "her own kind" as he put it. our school was predominately male with only our instructor's wife, his young daughter and one other young female making up the whole of our female student body.

i tend to agree with you however as i did play soccer (therefore my mom would be a soccer mom) and have been called retarded from time to time... lol ;)

in all seriousness, at the time i was a pretty trusting young lad and was VERY impressed with his demo. even wanted to train with him due to his top student having the same name as me, oh how my eyes have opened. luckily i wasn't old enough and his school was in dallas at the time (few hundred miles away). probably had a good chuckle about fleecin' us small town texas boys that weekend.

on a side note, my head instructor and his wife had nice red and white belts from then on which probably cost them a pretty penny which i think were supposed to be "master" ranking

D

[Ray Pina]

For the record again:

I thought his technique was good, I was MORE impressed by the way he presented himself.

Cung Le does not have a monopoloy on good technique.

In fact, I see very little sticking, rolling, absorbing in these fights. I do see a lot of lead shots to the legs to off ballance followed by heavy blows. Great! I saw take downs off of blows, great again. Can't argue if it works.

Just arguing, when left front lead leg is kicked, instead of trying to take it like a champ to no avail and being off balnaced. Why not kick to their supporting leg, getting inside the dangerous arc of the kick.

When a blow comes it. Instead of bobbing and weaving, why not accept it, control it, control him, and then go from there.

Good fighting. Like I said, I liked what I saw but more so what I heard. I 'm not training in a one horse, $hit kicking town. There are a lot of good martial artists in this world. Cung Le is one of them. I'm not often impressed with what I see out there. I liked what Mr. Le offered.

[guohuen]

I feel really bad for the students. Some of them really seemed to want to learn something. I hope the good ones don't get totaly disillusioned.
Boy, I'd hate to get in the ring with Cung Le. His hands wouldn't bother me too much, but the kicks would be troublesome and his takedowns are devastating.

[Black Jack]

Ryu,

I hear ya man, the karate in the begining that I liked was not the fat guy getting busted by the teacher, IMHO it was almost like the teacher was having fun punching the **** out of the round eye in front of the other asian students, but maybe I was seeing things.

I liked the old guy who was breaking boards with his conditioned strikes, man that guy has some nasty hands, you can tell where some of the fingers were broken, that and the old karate master with the white beard were cool, sh!t, strong karate-jitsu is pretty impressive, always liked it.

The fat Aikido guy seemed to have a bit of a ego, but he had a amazing looking school, LA style all the way. The Ninpo teacher seemed very friendly.

Cung Lek rocks!

[Merryprankster]

E-fist,

I'll avoid the rest of the post, not because I think it's wrong or think you don't know what you are talking about, but largely because:

1. I don't really understand some of it :)

2. I don't think it would be super productive. This isn't an insult, I just think we're working from very different mindsets.

I will say this: Bobbing and weaving IS controlling your opponent, only you aren't touching them. They throw leather, you bob and weave. This allows you to move in or out while taking the angle using your foot work. The reason that fighters do this is because it works VERY well, and does not commit you to any particular course of action.

[Ray Pina]

Agreed. Same here. Tottaly different understandings.

[Shaolindynasty]

I have several of Cung's fight on tape. All I have to say is that he has some of the most incredible technique I've ever seen in the ring. He also takes his opponents down at will. excellent stuff

Back o the karate special.
I thought the fat guy getting beat up was ridiculous. There is no way I'd ever want to learn anything from him. His teacher did just like to beat him up and i thought it was stupid for him while sparring to not hit back. It was alittle over the top for me when he held the weights and the sensei punched him in the ribs knocking him down, then proceeds to say something in japanese to some other guys then point and laugh. Fat guy, get a clue.

Same thing with the Akido guy. He was so winded from doing the throws he could barely talk. Maybe that's why his students just flipped over by themselves. That guy needs to go on a diet


I like the Karate guys who where breaking the boards with finger jabs. I also like the ninpo teacher, it's about time they show real ninjas on tv.

[Tigerstyle]

"...the sensei punched him in the ribs knocking him down, then proceeds to say something in japanese to some other guys then point and laugh. Fat guy, get a clue."

ROFL!! I saw the end of the show, and they showed that punch. I didn't see the that whole segment, and I liked the way that teacher dropped the bomb on that guy, but now that I hear what it was all about... :mad:

Did anyone else catch the Aikido guy talking about how Aikido was developed by the samurai as a means of subduing people without using their swords? :confused: Wasn't carrying a sword illegal about the time Aikido was created? Also, I didn't know Morihei Ueshiba was a samurai. Am I somehow misinformed about the history of Aikido (quite possibly :o ).

Did that cult... er, school teach people how to hit other people, or just how to stand there hissing while catching a big country beatdown? Shouldn't they train to take some shots to the jaw, or do they just not tuck their chin ever, choosing to instead absorb all strikes with their neck?

[Budokan]

That guy doing the kata in front of the stone wall was cool. I'd much rather have seen a special on him and his life and daily training regimen than the fat aikidoka and the ball-kicking cult.

[Black Jack]

Budokan, I so agree. That would of been a good show.

Strong Karate never gets enough airplay.

[Budokan]

No, it doesn't. I guess because it's not flashy enough. The first segments on the Okinawan karate was the best part of the show, IMO, before it spiraled into total silliness.

[Tigerstyle]

I met a guy at a tournament once that does karate, and most of the other members of his family do different styles of kung fu. He said he was interested in learning some type of kung fu, because he likes the way it moves (he said it looked "pretty" :p ).

I told him that i think there is nothing prettier in martial arts than a crisp, solid technique landing squarely on its target :) .

[shaolinboxer]

"Did anyone else catch the Aikido guy talking about how Aikido was developed by the samurai as a means of subduing people without using their swords? Wasn't carrying a sword illegal about the time Aikido was created? Also, I didn't know Morihei Ueshiba was a samurai. Am I somehow misinformed about the history of Aikido (quite possibly). "

Aikido was created in the 1950/60's.

I don't think there were to many samurai.

The techniques are derived from the use of the sword, protection against a sword (or small knife), or even from someone trying to prevent you from drawing your sword or immobilizing your weapon hand.

O-Sensei was not a samurai, although he did come from a rich and powerful family (he ****ed away almost all of the family fortune on religious cults).

This guy is so selling the Japanese fetish.

[Ray Pina]

O-sensei, like many sensei, spent time in CHina, from what I have read. Also read that perhaps he studied some Ba Gua, but being that he was Japanese, he A) wouldn't have gotten too much inside info

and B) wouldn't credit China and renamed it.

Wasn't there and don't really care. But that is some info that is out there. Though I have seen the relationship with the sword, especially hand position.

[Black Jack]

O-Sensei studied Daito-Ryu Aiki-JuJitsu, that is where Aikido came from, just like Hapkido, not any chinese art.

[NafAnal]

If you read one of B K frantzis' books he seems to think that O sensei did some bagua while in china. Not sure how much evidence there is to support his claims. I've heard people say O sensei came back from china with a very cicular flavour to his art, and even more outlandish claims that they've seen him doing a palm change.... I'm just repeating 3rd hand info, don't bite me head off....