choy lay fut order forms

[RAIN]

in the lee koon hung linaje how is the order of the forms that a instructor or a black sash must know ?

i know this orden :

che kuen
siu muy fah kuen
siu sup ji kow da kuen
tuet jin kuen
siu ping kuen
ng ying kuen
hok ying kuen
fut ga jerng

[Galadriel]

Hey RAIN,

Is that all they have to know to be a black sash??

Galadriel

[David Jamieson]

yer missin about 100 forms there aren't you? :D

I have yet to see a concise list of the forms from all branches of Choy Lee Fut/ cai li fo/ Choi li Fhat etc.

Does anybody know what they (form names) all are from all branches?

peace

[premier]

Fu pow was making a list of all the CLF forms.

[Fu-Pow]

Yes I did make a list but after a while I got really bored with it.

You see....each branch of CLF has a different number of forms. The Chan Family branch has the most at around 150-190 forms.

Doc Fai Wong also claims to know somewhere near that many.

The Lee Koon Hung lineage has probably aorund 40-50 forms.

But there are many deceiving things about these numbers.

Supposedly there were only 8 original forms as taught by Chan Heung. However, the Chan family has 190 forms? How did that happen?

Well even though I was unable to find out all of their forms I'm going to speculate that some of the forms are very similar. For example, can there really be that much difference in technique between a guan do and a nine-ring guando?

And yet the Chan Family might consider these to be two different forms. In addition, I suspect these forms come from various people and not everyone in the family knows them. Where as in the Lee Koon Hung lineage all senior students know all the forms.

The other confusing thing is that different branches have forms that have the same name and yet look nothing like each other either in content or in length.

So how many forms are there in CLF? Even though I researched it thoroughly I really can't tell you. A more appropriate way to measure would be how many techniques does each branch have. And to that I really don't have an answer.

I guess what it boils down to is the 10 basic techniques and how many ways you can fit them together.

If anybody wants my list feel free to email in private and I'll send it out to you.

fu_pow@hotmail.com

[CLFNole]

The order of the forms isn't that important as it has changed over the years. There are other hand forms not included on your list. Truthfully just because someone gets to the black sash level as you call it doesn't mean anything.

Some people get there only because they have been there for a long time. I remember some people at the school who were on the black level (we only used one color sash, sashes only hold up your pants) and they didn't have a clue about proper power generation or feel.

Worry about your own kung fu and not want forms make you a "black sash".

Peace.

[RAIN]

my question don't pretend glorify the black sash , i only try to find if there is a number of forms that a student must know for be called " instructor " and can start to teach the style .

[CLFNole]

First of all each instructor is generally hand-picked by the sifu. Since Lee Koon Hung died there have been no instructors added only assistant instructors. Now even if you are an instructor at the school itself you are not considered a sifu and you cannot go out and start teaching on your own.

There is no set amount of forms that you need to know. A couple of my sihing/di and myself know more forms than some students that have their own schools. Does that mean anything? Asolutely not, it doesn't come down to much you know its how well you know it, can teach and can apply it!

Some students left the school and opened their own schools and while they were both qualified they do not carry the association's name.

I am not sure if you are asking how much you have to know before you can teach in your own country but without being a real student Li Siu Hung or any other sifu associated with Lee Koon Hung would not give you permission to do so.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

CLFNole-

I think RAIN's confusion might come from Tat Mau Wong's advertisements in Kung Fu magazine's. As you probably know he has a "distance" learning program and his advertisement's make the claim that you can "learn all the forms up to black sash."

But as you I know this is just a marketing ploy. In CLF there is no such thing as black sash. We are all one color of sash. As you've said some people are better at one thing some people are better at others.

RAIN-

It is great that you are learning CLF from books and videos, you obviously have a willingness to learn. But contrary to what you've been sold you can't learn kung fu only from books and videos. The one-to-one interaction is very important.

Have you considered traveling to a teacher in the U.S. or nearer by that you can train with in person? Even if it was only a few times a year this would help your kung fu immensely. You might also consider flying a Sifu to your location to teach. Many Sifu's are willing to come and teach if you pay for their airfare and give them a place to stay.

Just an idea. I don't know what your financial situation is but these are just some suggestions.

[premier]

Yeah. If it's possible, you might want to concider contacting these guys.

Argentina

Sifu German Bermundez
Sevilla 3794
Villa Espana (1886)
Buenos Aries
Argentina

Ph:/Fax: 541-223 3285
Email: choyleefut@sinectis.com.ar
Web:http://webs.sinectis.com.ar/amk/index.html


I understand Buenos Aires might be far away from you, but it's closer than USA =)

[yutyeesam]

I'll probably get shot down for saying this, but I think another option would be not necessarily to teach, but to form a study group, or club, where you share your materials with other interested folks, and discuss it and try out things, and then maybe coordinate a fundraiser so one or two of you could come to the US to study with someone for a few days.

Just an idea. It always helps to work with partners to try different things.

123

[Eddie]

Hi Rain,
CLFNole and Fu pow pretty much sums things up very nicely. I can really reccomend you to start saving money, and fly some Master down to you. Although it might be expensive, it is surely worth your while. I guarentee you you wont be sorry. I have heard only GREAT things about Master Mak Hing Fai, and Master Li Siu Hung is just AWSOME. Even CLFNole and Sow Choy themselves are pretty amazing too (and Fu Pow seems pretty good too), and I am certain none of them would really mind coming down to you either. I suppose even some other people from other lineages like Straightblast5 or even some of the other great CLF guys over here.

There are ways and means of raising the money, and I am sure that with your students help, you will be able to get enough cash together. Then, all that you still need to do, is to find get one of the masters who would fly down to visit. Please e-mail me, so that I can give you some ideas if you want.

CLFNole and Fu Pow,
IF all goes to plan, I will be coming to the states in July. I would really love to meet up with you guys, even if just for some juice or tea(Fu pow, I know you are pretty far away from CLFNole, but I can always try make some plan to go up to your state- I know someone over there at the moment). Are you guys going to be at the Taiji Legacy tournament? If I am not mistaken CLFNole, you won the Saber division in one of the past years?

Have a nice weekend everyone.
PS- anyone know if Sow Choy is back home yet?

[Fu-Pow]

Eddie-

I'd love to hook up with you. If you are going to the Taiji legacy let me know. I probably wouldn't normally go but if you're going to be there I might feel inspired.

Yau Sam

[RAIN]

th

[RAIN]

thank you all of you for you help . i really apreciatte that . but i want to clear some things . maybe is my fault for be a choy lay fut question machine all the time and never speak about me . My intention never was have a " title " . or a " colour sash " . is only that here we have a program for instructors and i think maybe you too , because in one past post was show the order of the forms .
i want to thank you really to all of you for all the support and all the help you give me .
thank you friends .

[JAZA]

The Chan Kwok Lineage of Foshan is the same of Lee Koon Hung if I'm not wrong.

[CLFNole]

Jaza:

No our lineage is different from Chan Kwok Wai.

Eddie:

I won't be able to attend the Taiji Legacy Tournament this year. I went last year and the turnout wasn't too good. Good luck to you and your school.

If you come to Florida I might be able to hookup with you guys, however I don't talk much with Li Siu Hung or Joe anymore.

Peace.

[JAZA]

Clfnole, I said it because I remember that one time Frank Mcarthy said that the hall of the Foshan School had a lot of picture of your sifu.

[CLFNole]

Jaza:

Our lineage comes from both Chan Hueng and Cheong Yim.

Peace.

[Marcelo-RJ]

Brothers:
Chan Kwok Wai's lineage is Futsan Hung Sing + Bak Sing, as can be seen on the botton of the following page:
http://www.sinobrasileira.org/index.php?id=4&subid=11&ln=pt
I have studied some CKW's Choy Lee Fut under the late Sifu Ma Hei Kao, Chan Kwok Wai's first CLF disciple in Brazil. But that was 20 years ago.
Then I spent more than 10 years away from Kung Fu, until I started practicing Garrett Gee's Hung Fa Yi from 2003 to 2007. From then on, I started practicing on my own, with some help from my KF, Luta-Livre and MMA friends here in Rio de Janeiro.
This year I visited my wife's family in NYC and was lucky enough to train under Sifu Wong Zen Yem of Brooklyn, a very skilled, kind and special teacher.
Being a South-American I understand RAIN's difficulties. But I also see that between the time the thread was started and nowadays many things have changed. At least, the American Dollar is not as strong as it used to be, so it's easier for us to travel to the US.
As to the forms: if one is a long distance student and (1) is not that rich and/or (2) has no much available time to travel, three empty hands forms and a couple of weapoms should be more than enough for developing a good system's identity.
Some times it feels like one knows tons of forms, but lacks a suitable understanding of the foundations of the style (body mechanics, footwork, power generation, body expression etc).