Street Fighting

[Dark Knight]

We all talk about getting ready for a fight, or those who talk about being in fights. And then there are those who talk about how to handle challenge fights. But lets look at what a fight can become.

You are facing someone who is angry enough to want to cause physical harm to you. You have no idea of his training, if any, his background and if he is on drugs.

Ill give a couple examples of where I have seen fighting go bad.

A friend of mine was a 310 pound kick boxer, he was 6’4” and in great shape, doing full contact on a regular basis (a power hitter). He got together with some other friends; one was 195 pounds and an animal. The two of them had great fighter spirit, when they were done 5 minutes later my 310 pound friend had three broken teeth and a black eye that was closed for three days, and stayed black for a long time.

These were good friends.

I was fighting a guy who was a kickboxer; he kicked me so hard on my left shoulder that it came out of the socket.
My right shoulder came out from a throw a few years later. Both come out pretty easy now.

They are good friends of mine.

I had a student who was a golden gloves boxer that now wanted to try Martial Arts. He got carried away one day and hooked a guy in the ribs twice (two fast shots) The guy he hit blocked with his arm, but the power of the punch forced the arm against the ribs so hard that he broke the ribs.

These stories are from people who like each other. I have had black eyes, bloody noses and seen many of them through the years just in practice in what was supposed to be light sparring.

Now imagine what happens when you face someone that is looking to hurt you. You may think that a few strikes will end the problem, but all it does is make him angrier.

You have no idea of this guys skill, you try a couple control techniques and find out he has some kind of training and now he is thinking he has to take you down fast before you take him down. Two shots later you have a broken jaw a black eye and your looking at the foot traveling at warp speed to your face.

Life went bad because you wanted to be the nice guy, control an attacker and end the fight peacefully.

The same for challenges, but you know he is trained. But you don’t know what he considers the proper amount of aggression. He may have people with him and doesn’t want to look bad. So when it looks like you are winning he turns it up without warning and starts hurting you so he can win.

Fighting is not a cool thing we see on TV. People get injured badly when a fight starts. This doesn’t include what will happen when a knife is pulled out of nowhere.

I avoid fights because I know what can happen. If I run into a confrontation my thought is how to take this person out fast and hard. I don’t want him to get back up more ****ed off. And if he has friends I want them to be in such shock that they don’t want to step in to help.

If I were to have someone walk into my school and challenge me I’m going to be aggressive and fast. They came in to see if they can beat me, and I’m not going to take a chance on how badly they want to prove their point.

Next time you find yourself in a position where you may be in a fight, think of what could happen, just in practice I’ve seen bad injuries, the street can be worse.

[Water Dragon]

Now that was well said.

[108kuen]

I was lucky...at 19 I trained to be an emt..had to do rotations in an ER, changed my thinking about fights a bit.

[umgong]

What you guys are posting is a good example of what happens in street fights.
That is why the wisdom of the MA in real life is to avoid or prevent a situation from escalating into a real fight. If you choose to accept a challenge to a fight, then you are still a novice who is learning to master yourself, according to the classics.

If you truly were a realist then you must "kill" your opponent before he has a chance to do so to you.
Ask yourself, what is the purpose to accepting a challenge or fighting someone?
You mentioned that you have seen what could happen in a fight between friends, do you wish to deliberately inflict that kind of pain on someone else and could you do it at will? Then ask yourself again....why?

[Stacey]

If they are well trained, or trained enough that my conrol technique doesn't work, I will hit them and then a control technique will work in the opposite direction.

I personally love Aikido's peacefull philosophy, same as mitose kempo...unfortunately the fighting isn't as good as 8step and tai chi....still with better skill you don't have to harm the opponent too much.

The real question is, do they know more and can they use it....the golden glove boxer would be formidible, but not if you get close. Many people have training, train harder.

[red_fists]

Dark Knight.

Good Post.

Like you I have seen a few fights myself, luckily been in fewer than I have seen.

Got a slightly dislocated Disc in my lower back thanks to a fellow student mucking up a kick.
Also by having associated with a lots of Bikers I have seen how quickly 2 friends can turn on each other and the ensuing results.

These days my philosophy is to avoid fights at all costs and leave the area of confrontation as fast as possible.

Truth is get in a fight and you will get hurt regardless of how good you are.

[Dark Knight]

"If they are well trained, or trained enough that my conrol technique doesn't work, I will hit them and then a control technique will work in the opposite direction. "

Thats a great theory, but you will prob find out that your control technique is not working just after he hit you a couple of times. Then it may be to late.

Thanks for the responses

[scotty1]

*Bump*

Ouch...

[lau gar]

lots of people need to learn this:

1. avoid fights

2.run if u can

[myosimka]

So I get your point but it seems that one of your results is a bit skewed.



"If I were to have someone walk into my school and challenge me I’m going to be aggressive and fast. They came in to see if they can beat me, and I’m not going to take a chance on how badly they want to prove their point."


You are taking a chance by engaging in a challenge. I state openly that I will not engage in challenges. I simply refuse. Noone ever seems to want to press the point in front of 30 students who will back me both physically and in court. I don't know what this guy is willing to do so I don't fight him. I don't take that chance. You do, you just minimize it by escalating the fight immediately.(although that attitude probably exposes you to even greater legal liability) I also don't let anyone spar inside my hall for the first month and they spar noone other than myself for the next month. I can't take that chance.

[Wilson]

I was in a situation one time where a buddy of mine and some other clown were in a tough guy staring match and eventually it led to them having words in the parking lot. My crew had 5 guys and the other guy just had 1 friend with him. We could have rolled thru them if we wanted, but as the only guy with any martial training, I stepped in to break up the situation and calm everyone down.

Funny, it turned out, we ended up having beers with the other two guys. Anyway.....as we were riding home in the car that night, the guys in my crew were asking why I broke it up, as we should have been able to handle the other two.

I asked them the same question I'll ask you guys. "Do you really know what it feels like to get hit?" All the guys in the car said no, after I had to clarify what "HIT" really means. I'd be willing to bet a lot of people here should really say no also.

Now I've been training for a while and broken a few bones doing it, been in a few scraps but nothing life or death, and been in the Muay Thai ring a couple times. Even without the threat of any real danger or death......IT HURTS LIKE HEL L" Come on people, if those situations hurt like that, why in the world would I want to put myself in a situation that could hurt worse or screw me up for life. Be smart. Even if you win, you'll probably get hurt. If you lose, you have yourself to blame.

Warriors train so they have the option to choose peace.

[taijiquan_student]

People have accused my teacher of teaching people how to be violent by having us practice free-fighting (**** tai-chi hippies). The fact is, after doing full-contact free-fighting students are much less violent, and don't want to fight because they know what it's like to get hit and how bad things can get.

[TaoBoy]

Originally posted by lau gar
lots of people need to learn this:

1. avoid fights

2.run if u can

Sage advice.

The ego has no place in real confrontation.

[chief108]

posts...

I see it a lot with friends and students as well....
The more you know about fighting the more carefull you will be, 'cause you know the bad things that can come from a fight.

On the other hand it's good to have some knowledge and experience when the sh*t hits the fan...

IMHO I believe that a good MA training will help you to stay cool/ relaxed in such situations so you can act in a way that's appropiate for that moment.

And such moments and the decisions you have to make might be VERY important to you and the rest of your life...
What if you get killed, seriously injured or do the same to the other guy(s)?
That's stuff you will have to live with for the rest of your life...

So my training is hard, it's full contact, bare hands....
And accidents will happen, people will get hurt sometimes.
But it's all for the best :D
Making our world a little bit safer for ourselves and our loved ones.

CU@ www.selini108.com

Chief108

[Qi dup]

Originally posted by red_fists
Truth is get in a fight and you will get hurt regardless of how good you are.

I like this post. Fights always go wrong, I'm not sure why that's hard to understand for the average person. I guess it's because all we see on tv and movies are people winning fights, even after being hit many many times.

[Wilson]

I heard a quote before that went something like this. "Train not just for yourself but also your loved ones." I think there is more to it than just being able to win a physical confrontation and protect yourself and your family. It also gets down to the point that cheif108 brings up - that you have to stay cool and make good decisions. Not decisions based on ego at the moment but ones that really do affect your life for yourselves and your loved ones. Most of the time this means not getting yourself into situations where trouble is likely.

That said, I still want to be able to handle the physical confrontation.

[umgong]

Since the early 60's, when I first started learning m.a., I was taught, learning to fight was all about control and mastering yourself (at least in execution of technique) and then supposedly your opponent would recognize your skill and stop fighting. Sometimes it worked.

Then we went the tournament route and slowly went to more contact, rather than pulling punches, but a bunch of events changed my thinking.
One time, we went to one of the local eateries in a so so area and two young men took exception to one of the long haired guys from our dojo (Kempo) After many insults they challenged and our guys went out of the restaurant to square off. Mostly a combination of two punches (jab, hook) had all of our guys laying on the ground, gasping for breath....and our guys were top tournament players. The two young men were boxers in the Navy. I was just visit8ing with the guys from the dojo.
Another time, I went out on a date and when we came out of the theatre, I was challenged by three young men because they were feeling their oats and I looked like a good victim. I knew I was outnumbered, but it was our first date and I didn't know how she would react, so I squared off when I heard (in Spanish) that once they jumped me that they would take my girlfriend and rape her. (Thank goodness for 3 years of high school Spanish).
I faked the first move, kicked the first guy in the shins so he blocked the other two, grabbed the girl's wrist and ran. That was the first time I realized that other's could pay the consequences for my not taking this stuff seriously.
Then I ran into Bruce Lee and his teaching concepts really started me on a long path with these events that brought me to reality fighting.
I am now at the point in my life after a lot of street experience and practice with different folks that I know that I must hit suddenly and with as much injury to the opponent as possible in a very brief amount of time. (also because of my age, too)
If that doesn't work and you are faced with a deadly confrontation, then gun foo works also, or knife foo, or another equalizer foo.
Above all, though, if you can avoid it, avoid it. Life is too short and too precious.

[guohuen]

Very good!

[jun_erh]

What's funny is many of us will never get in a fight and will see our worst injuries in class, not to mention increasing our chances of getting in a fight by being around other people who are potentially violent

[Shisio]

Funny thing, I used to get into fights every week at least, till I went to MA and learned what COULD of happened. This MA stuff is scary.

[scotty1]

"What's funny is many of us will never get in a fight and will see our worst injuries in class, not to mention increasing our chances of getting in a fight by being around other people who are potentially violent"

That's so true. But you never know...;)