Question on Southern Mantis fighting stance

[Water Dragon]

I have been playing with the basic Southern Mantis fighting stance and I love it. Powerful, efficient, mobile. I have one question though. The stance makes me feel very vulnerable to shot to the nads. How do you guys prevent this? Is the stance used off angle? Straight forward?

I'm using the basic shoulder width, back toes in line with the front heel.

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

[Juggler]

Hi Waterdragon.

The Southern Mantis stance is much more versatile than it first seems.

Firstly, at extremely close quarters, the forward leg can be placed at your opponent's centre, therefore preventing him from kicking you with his front leg. Your forward leg can also be placed in contact with your opponent's forward leg - sensivity in the legs.

Theoretically, you should be constantly attacking your opponent, and should not be giving him time to think about kicking your nads.

Secondly, on entry to your opponent's territory, the southern mantis stance subtly turns into something similar to a cat stance, providing an avenue of retaliation if your opponent attempts a groin kick.

Hopefully, I haven't confused you. :)

[Water Dragon]

ttt as the Mantis guys seem to have returned.

Most actions of men can be explained by observing a pack of dogs. Not wild dogs, just neighborhood dogs who all scurry under the fence on the same night and set off together to reclaim a glimmer of the glory their species possessed before domestication.

[5thBrother]

to the top ~~

any further posts?

[David]

How about mantis "dog-steps"? I read someone saying how they admired SPM dog-steps, something to do with turning I think. Never been sure which kind of turning it was referring to - if it was that cool, I'd practice it more :D.

Been bugging me for years, but never got round to asking anybody... Always looking at dogs but not getting any clues.

Anyone know?

Rdgs,
David

[Infrazael]

Do you guys block with your legs/shins/knees like the Muay Thai folks, or something completely different?

Sorry for my absolute lack of SPM knowledge.

[ThaiMantis]

Do you guys block with your legs/shins/knees like the Muay Thai folks, or something completely different?


lol i do, but i'm a hybrid. but I don't think it's a Mantis thing, i've not been shown it in that context, but Thai blocks are really designed to stop Thai kicks in the first place and arent so effective against anything coming frontwards at you.

SPM guys in my experience can be troubled by Thai leg kicks if theyre not very quick on their feet. ..out of interest how would/ do the rest of you cope with them in a SPM style approach?

[SevenStar]

lol i do, but i'm a hybrid. but I don't think it's a Mantis thing, i've not been shown it in that context, but Thai blocks are really designed to stop Thai kicks in the first place and arent so effective against anything coming frontwards at you.

SPM guys in my experience can be troubled by Thai leg kicks if theyre not very quick on their feet. ..out of interest how would/ do the rest of you cope with them in a SPM style approach?


they're not designed to stop thai kicks - they are designed to stop any kick with an arcing trajectory, thai or otherwise. a straight line kick, like a teep, is meant to be evaded or scooped. if you scoop it, you can then counter, takedown, etc.

[Shadow Skill]

the basic right or left horse stance (depends on wich leg is in front) looks like an opening and if you are not good at foot is an easy target. but kicks to the groin are very easy to defend against. what I use most is closing the gate this tech. is easy just turn your feet inward, bend down untill your knees touch. the object is not to trap the kicking leg but to punish it. to add a little extra pain to my opponent i usually drop a double hammer on their shins (phoenix eye palms to side using both hands) hasn't faild me yet. if you really want to defend against groin shots learn and practice our foot work

[ThaiMantis]

they're not designed to stop thai kicks - they are designed to stop any kick with an arcing trajectory, thai or otherwise.

yea, ok so thai style kicks and other less powerful roundhouse style kicks also.

thoughts on the SPMantis approach to thai leg kicks (apart from retreat/evade) anyone?

[SevenStar]

yea, ok so thai style kicks and other less powerful roundhouse style kicks also.


hook kicks, low crescent kicks... think outside of the roundhouse. Thai boxing also has a kick that similar to an inside crescent kick - it slaps the thigh. it's not a partcularly menacing kick, just something used as a distraction. You don't see it used alot.

[David]

Really low kicks might be stomped with heel, instep or outstep

Shins and knees will be used for most others, with the higher end using arms to scoop or trap. A kick to the groin would be shut out by turning knee or lifting the knee across the centreline so the shin blocks.

Really high ones want to be caught against the shoulder with both arms wrapping it.

All of the above can be ignored and done differently, though. I guess it partly depends how much telegraphing occurs because we'd be hoping to move in on the kick. If moving in rather than merely receiving, it changes.

Desired points of contact for SPM legwork are typically heel, shin and knee and I would work those into as many attacks/responses as possible.

Rgds,
David

[mantis-1]

In response to the first post, sounds like you are just looking at the training stance, I dont know how much SPM (Chow) you have but as you progress through the forms your positioning changes from what is known as 'full on' or 'half on' basically showing your opponent full body or half body, half body comes later in the forms. Imagine standing in the typical Chow Gar stance facing forward, right foot forward... now turn 45 degrees to your right. You will see that your groin is fully protected now and you are only showing half of your body area now.

[Shadow Skill]

So how much spm do you know? The longer you study the more ways to block kicks you learn. Not just front kicks and groin kicks. but kicks ranging from kicks to the shin, heel strikes, ankle kicks, hook kicks etc. but again it all starts with foot work. then you learn how to use other hand tech. in comb. w/ foot work

[David]

The original post in this thread is March 28th 2001, and water dragonis no longer with us.