Anyone here heard of a southern shaolin system called Jingang Quan?

[Vankuen]

I was just wondering if anyone in here has had any experience with a system of the kepu temple called Jingang Quan, or diamond fist boxing.

I have experience in it and wanted to see if maybe anyone else has so that I may have some conversation with them in the system.

[Laine Nakachi]

Vankuen ,

How have you heard of diamond fist boxing ?

Tell me more about this system .

Take Care ,


Fe luk

[Crimson Phoenix]

I have seen some of it, it looks very "un-southern" (well, we all know "southern fist-northern legs" in just a gross and inadequate generalization).
What I saw was very flowing, with lots of fast and tricky counters...lots of movements seemed to require to tilt the body either forward or backward while standing on one leg for different purposes: for example on a low kick counter the guy would raise the attacked leg and tilt forward to punch his opponent face simultaneously...I witnessed it also enabled very surprising double kicks with the same leg: for example one front slap kick with the body right immediately followed by a second, "heart-piercing" front kick executed by tilting the body fiercely backward (balance was attained by the extended leg kicking).
I also saw some nice jumping knees (side knees) for surprise attacks or counters...
It looked very flowing, heavy emphasis on counters (attack simultenous to that of the opponent), jumping moves and heavy use of the upper body to gain distance or reach angles that make the attack surprising...
Have anybody else seen that???

[buddhapalm]

In my system we have a form called Jin Gang Quan or Gum Gong Kuen. It is basically the same as Northern Shaolin's Duan Da Quan (Short Strike Fist).

I have heard that Jin Gang can mean "Diamond Hard", or another way of saying it is "Golden Steel", which in is Chinese the same meaning.

Vankuen,
Could you tell me more about the "Kepu Temple" and your system ?

I am researching the history of my style.

Cheers

[GeneChing]

Check out this link -

http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/pr-gs008.html

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[reneritchie]

There was a Weng Chun teacher in Foshan named Pan Nam (Peng Nan) who along with a writer named Law suggested in an article that Wing Chun Kuen was composed of several systems, one of which was Gam Gang Jeung (Jin Gang Zhang/Diamond Palm). Like the Gam Gang Dai Si or Gam Gang Sutra, Diamond seemed equated with Buddhism and while little was said of this system, it was referred to as Henan Shaolin in origin (and I've vaguely heard it connected to Lohanquan).

Rgds,

RR

[phoenix-eye]

I've got the Jing Gang Quan video from MartialArtsMart.

It is a Shaolin form and is "Diamond fist form" in english.

Its a soft, flowing form designed to stimulate chi movement and certainly doesn't have any sharp counters or jumping knee strikes.

We were also taugh a "Dali Jing Gang Gong" form by shaolin monk Shi Yanzi - he referred to this as also being a "Diamond" Qi Gong form.

Don't know much more than that I'm afraid.

"We had a thing to settle so I did him"
Tamai, 43, was quoted by Police as saying.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Phoenix, I heard about that too...but I came to think that when you practice taiji at combat speed and with combat applications, it really doesn't look like what people think is taiji usually (the principles are there, but the outter shell is different)...I have only seen two-man applications and combat sequences of jingang quan so I have some hypothesis:
1) jingang quan practiced at combat speed and with combat applications doesn't look like the solo form in the same way I described about taiji
2) There are ****nym practices with different features
3) I have seen a wushu version of jingang quan (the level of combat applications makes me doubt this but who knows??)...
Check this book:
http://www.wle.com//products/b011.html
It contains jingang kicks similar to those I have seen practiced, with similar counters, I am sure that is what I have seen
There is also this book, I think there is some jingang kicks in it too but I am not sure however because I can't remember clearly:
http://www.wle.com//products/b010.html

Good training

[Turiyan]

Originally posted by
I was just wondering if anyone in here has had any experience with a system of the kepu temple called Jingang Quan, or diamond fist boxing.

I have experience in it and wanted to see if maybe anyone else has so that I may have some conversation with them in the system.

Southern? Both diamond palm and diamond fist are shaolin skills as well as a martial art. The diamond fist form of shaolin I have not seen. But there was a diamond fist martial art taught to twice born men (high caste) in india.

Indian martial arts saving wrestling were lost to obscurity. And for other reasons, I doubt the diamond fist you are seeing is "real" in this context.

Oh yes, these websites are calling it Vajramushti.
Odd since Indra means LIGHT. Vajra is the weapon of Indra. Which is the "thunderbolt". In other words, lightning.

The ancient khalaka mongols were known for being terrifyed of lightning and the traditional ones of today probably still are.
Those vedic dietys are based on ancient "sky gods" or tngri. Where the chinese word TIAN is derived.

But I can speculate, that these associations are going back to ancient provinces / dynastys / conflicts. And this diamond fist was the "rod" of the higher castes.

Kind of like the british and DECAPITATION if you know what I mean.

The highest caste can downgrade to the second highest caste basiclly AD LIBITUM or in a time of distress, and emulate their dutys.

Meaning they become warrior-kings and when this happened things were always dread for those on the recieving end.

In tibet this usually meant a yellow hat "converted" to black hat then went to "timur the lame".

I dont know where they are getting "diamond" from. Unless they are associating diamond with high caste, to symbolize nobilty, like jade (ironic). Or its assocation with Akasha or ether.

Diamond is all associated with Ether, Akasha, and the Crown chakra (akasha-chakra). The spiritual power is associated with the will and superconscious and thus BRAHMA.

THE MAIN problem in all this, is that wrestlers and pugilists were all classifyed as types of low birth in the veda's. Was there really a martial art for the twice-born? If so it was not used for competition or for health.

This reflects the Confucian idea that hard physical effort is associated with low birth/servitude.

And those that dominate by will alone are charactaristicly of higher birth. The reason these arts were lost to obscurity was because of secrecy and that the highest levels were training the "inner gong fu".

There is such thing as "half-sin". Training the mind and the body together is a "half-sin".

In india they say the indian wrestlers are said to be stronger than hard workers/serviles simply because they think completly about what they are doing when they are doing it.

For that reason I would expect to see exercises veiled as combative forms with the inner gong fu convienently left out to be put in automaticlly by those that have the power to do so.

[phoenix-eye]

Turiyan

You should check out the Shaolin JinGang Quan form - it is subtitled Vajra Fist at the start of the video.

Sounds like too much of a coincidence to me...

[northstar]

My chinese dictionary translates jingang both as diamond, and as "Buddha's warrior attendant".

[dubj]

This interested me so I looked it up and found a site on Fan family bagua and one of their training methods is Jin gang da li fa(vajra great strength training method). It seems jin gang is usually meant as buddha's warrior which still shows a link back to india.
Turiyan, if this martial art was created by the high castes what do you think they used it for instead of combat and health?

[Northwind]

Jin Gang Zhang and Jin Gang Quan are two different things. The zhang or palm deal is a qigong set for palm power, and the quan is a form or set like you'd find in a style. Not sure if they were taught together or not, but if they have the same roots, then it would make sense.

[TenTigers]

this thread sounds like a typical lead up into someone's new style that they are promoting...
(I'll just sit here and watch...)

[Northwind]

this thread sounds like a typical lead up into someone's new style that they are promoting...
(I'll just sit here and watch...)

I hope you're not talking about me. I know the qigong set, don't know the quan routine, but both are easily found on the net.

[David Jamieson]

way to dig this one out of the drecks!

TT you may know it as "gum gong kuen" perhaps?

It is a Shaolin set that is likely a remnant of a larger practice. Like Lien-bo is a remnant of an older system, but the system itself is either split up and spread out or no longer extant. At least not in a self contained way.

[TenTigers]

no, NW-you are talking about the chi-gung and the Northern set, as opposed to a little-known Southern close range fighting system.
Too often, people re-package what they have aquired over the years and give it a name, or link it to an obscure, little known history, rather than just coming out and saying it is their own personal evolution and expression.
Yes, I may be jumping the gun, and if so, then I apologize.
But there is an all too familiar pattern developing.

[Northwind]

Then I may have gotten the qigong / set confused with perhaps something different than what you are referring to. I am not "creating" anything here, so there is no pattern. No worries - believe me, I have seen enough of what you're talking about too, but I sure as hell am not one ;)

[sean_stonehart]

Fabian Sena used to have a vid of "Jingang Quan" on Cyberkwoon years ago done by one of the Songshan monk folks.

Choy Li Fut has a set "Gum Gong Law Horn Kuen" (Jingang Louhan Quan) but it's different than the Songshan set.

[Northwind]

Toss out my replies guys...I'm a moron :P I am a northern practitioner, and we have this jingangzhang as an auxillary qigong practice. I had heard about the quan set and being curious, did a search online, which lead me to this thread. I began to reply, not realizing til just now that the topic says "southern shaolin system"...:P Sorry - user error ;)

[Northwind]

Whoah! Hi Sean! :)
(This is Craig) :P

[sean_stonehart]

Whoah! Hi Sean! :)
(This is Craig) :P

:D

10 character rule

[Violent Designs]

There is a northern system called Jingang Bashi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPZ9qKk--Us

No it's not a fake system. =_=