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View Full Version : Which Southern Style is the Best?



Ego_Extrodinaire
04-16-2001, 03:54 PM
Guys

let's hear your opionions as to which short hand style is the best. I don't want any cop out comments like all Southern Styles are good ect.

I just want a good clean vote. To achieve a high degree of uniformity I will impose the following hypothethical conditions:

1) sample size 100,000 randomly chosen individuals
2) 5 short hand Southern Styles
3) trained by a competent teacher
4) 10 years training.

Best is terms of achieving the most competent hand to hand fighting ability for the group.

Maximus Materialize!

joedoe
04-16-2001, 04:36 PM
I think 5 Ancestor Fist is the best (Wu Chu Chuan) but then I am very biased :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

Ben Gash
04-16-2001, 11:08 PM
What happened to Lung Ying?
Anyway, there is no answer. All the styles have produced competent fighters. It's just a case of which style interests you more. Some people like the variety and the weapons arsenal of Bak Mei or Wuzhuquan, and others like the spartan syllabus of Wing Chun. Others like the flow and clarity of white crane, and some like the shear brutality of SPM. And dog boxing looks good for a laugh.

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

tnwingtsun
04-17-2001, 06:12 AM
You need a poll because of your
lack of knowledge concerning Southern styles.
Why do you care?
I boycott your poll because of your disrespect
of southern kung-fu on past posts.

UnknownAgent
04-17-2001, 01:16 PM
Alright tnwingtsun!!!

Lol, i wonder if ego really though a post like this would succeed. Any martal artist with a good sifu would have taught there students to respect all styles of kung fu for what they are. Like people they are individuals.

Ego once again is just trying to fan a conflict, so dont buy into it. Let him talk, just dont listen.

Ego_Extrodinaire
04-17-2001, 05:03 PM
tnwingchun

so you're holding a grudge. speak to your sifu and he can beat the grudge out of you.

Maximus Materialize!

tnwingtsun
04-18-2001, 12:09 PM
No grudge,if a bug bites me I hold no
grudge I just flick it off,you havent even
bitten me yet,but hang around,I need trout bait :rolleyes:

Ego_Extrodinaire
04-18-2001, 03:31 PM
I believe that this would help dispell the myths of which short hand kung fu style is the best.

Thanks for the contribution tnwingchun. But maybe Wing Chun may have problems dealing with the Southern Mantis bug.

But don't take my word for it - cast your vote.

Maximus Materialize!

tnwingtsun
04-19-2001, 06:45 AM
last time I fool with you,if you want to know which one is best,go out and practice them for yourself,
BTW,
its spelled w-i-n-g-t-s-u-n,wingtsun,not Wing Chun,
I like the Mantis,never had a problem with them,they keep the bad bugs out of my garden,no good for trout though,lets talk about trout,
or perhaps you would like to lay down on the coutch and tell me about your mother.

Ego_Extrodinaire
04-19-2001, 02:22 PM
Excellent. Yours must be the garden variety mantis. And yes mantis do catch bugs but they aint very good at catching trouts. Glad you made that discovery.

You still want to know about my mother?

Maximus Materialize!

GreyMystik
04-19-2001, 07:51 PM
i know all about your mother.....


haha sorry couldn't resist that one

CanadianBadAss
04-19-2001, 10:16 PM
Lets get off the mother jokes... like i got off yours this morning

Ego_Extrodinaire
04-20-2001, 03:38 AM
CanadianBadAss

YUK! wat do u people do in Canada. My mother's been dead for 5 years.

Maximus Materialize!

WuMan
04-20-2001, 07:01 AM
How come Hung Ga wasnt included?

Ben Gash
04-20-2001, 06:59 PM
Hung Kuen isn't a short hand system.
Sorry Kelvin, your sad attempt at sparking a shorthand flame war hasn't worked. The worst one was started by me, when I asked why shorthand stylists all hated each other :)
There are no myths about which shorthand system is best. It's largely irrelevant.

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

WuMan
04-20-2001, 07:34 PM
I am speaking of the Hung Kuen from the south, not north. They are spelt differently in chinese.

Ego_Extrodinaire
04-21-2001, 01:37 AM
Wu Man

2 reasons why Southern Red Fist has been excluded from the poll

1) it is NOT a short-hand style
2)it is a cheap southern immitation of the Northern Red Fist - which you had correctly pointed out.

Maximus Materialize!

WuMan
04-21-2001, 04:53 AM
Um.. actually Sifu, si gung, si mo AND si po have told me that IT IS a CLOSE range style.

Inquisitor
04-21-2001, 11:07 PM
This whole thread is useless. Everyone knows that all Northern Styles kick Southern butt. Hehehehehehehehe.

joedoe
04-22-2001, 02:35 AM
Trolls, trolls, trolls.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

WuMan
04-22-2001, 05:10 AM
Are you talking about me?

joedoe
04-22-2001, 05:17 AM
No, Ego

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

Ego_Extrodinaire
04-22-2001, 11:56 AM
Guys,

Choy Lay Fut is indeed a long range style as taught in many schools.

Maybe you sifu, sihing, simo, sisock, sidai and sidown oops missed the "t" are all having you on. Ask them on any other day except April 1st.

Maximus Materialize!

Ego_Extrodinaire
04-22-2001, 12:01 PM
Guys

Yes indeed Choy Lay Fut is a long range style as practiced by Southern Schools.

Perhaps you should as your sifu, sihing, simo, sidai and sidown oops misseed the "t" on any day except April 1st.

Maximus Materialize!

WuMan
04-22-2001, 11:26 PM
I did ask. Hung ga is a good all around style INCLUDING short range, so I was a little right.

Ego_Extrodinaire
04-30-2001, 04:10 AM
No, Hung fut is not a short range style. it uses long swinging motions, where you hoop around like a g@d d@mn ape.

Maximus Materialize!

Laine Nakachi
05-01-2001, 10:07 AM
You did'nt have too many choices,but I would go for Hung Gar.To me Hung Ga and Hung Gar is the same system.Only the terms for these southern chinese system have changed.

But if you ever wanted to know,no one system of the southern chinese martial arts system is good.That's why the shaolin temple of the southern branch, had developed different systems.So the monks and there disciples can survive.

That's why one of the shaolin temple had been burned down to the ground.Because the manchurian government, was jealous of the kung fu skills of the shaolin temple.Although the manchurian government had their own kung fu experts, still it was'nt good enough for the kung fu experts of the manchurian government.

That's why certain kung fu sifus had studied different kung fu systems. When they had the chance.Because,they realized that learning just one system was'nt enough, they wanted to learn whatever that was available to them.

It's unfair to compare styles or systems.
Because today in the streets,you need a combination of long and short range self defense techniques.Grappling incase you're
taken to the ground.

Take Care ,
Sil Lum Kuen

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-04-2001, 04:24 AM
Sil Lum Kuen,

This is a valid question. If Shaolin is that good and the Mancurian kung fu masters weren't good enough, why did the temple get burned down and the deciples slaughtered?

I don't buy the story that it is due to the Pak Mei instructor betrayal. After all to win a war in those days it's hand to hand combat - no matter the espionage.

Maximus Materialize!

joedoe
05-04-2001, 11:58 AM
Obviously never read Sun Tzu :)

-------------------------------------
You have no chance to survive - make your time.

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-04-2001, 12:47 PM
Abandit,

You know that there's an Idiots Guide to Windows, Excel, Job Application, Sex and lately Philosophy, Sun Tze has written an Idiot's Guide of the art of burning down temples - particuarly those in Shaolin. In the local book store, it is on the self next to the Idiot's guide on how to light a BBQ. The first page of both books start out with a warning - "DO NOT THROW GASOLINE ON A FIRE". The next chapter expalins why. The chapter's titled - "THE WISDOM OF PAK MEI AND THE MANCHURIAN FOOLS".

Ok?

Maximus Materialize!

joedoe
05-06-2001, 02:11 AM
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh well. No point trying to convince an idiot.

-------------------------------------
You have no chance to survive - make your time.

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-06-2001, 01:25 PM
Abandit,

Well I see those books have convinced you :(

Maximus Materialize!

Laine Nakachi
05-18-2001, 08:59 AM
That good?

Sil Lum Kuen

This is a valid question.If Shaolin is that good and the Manchurian kung fu masters were 'nt good enough ,why did the temple get burned down and the disciples slaughtered?

I don't buy the story that due to the Pak
Mei Instructor betrayal.After all to win a war in those it's hand to hand combat - no matter the espionage.

*****************************************

Ego Extrodinare! ,

Right , you're always entitiled to your own opinion.Then let me ask you this question then ? If you don't buy the story that the Bak Mei instructor had burned down the temple , due to his betrayal with shaolin ,then why the heck was it burned down then ? The shaolin disciples were slaughtered mainly because their kung fu was'nt good enough.

Bak Mei was barred from entering the shaolin temple.that's why he took his revenge leading the manchurian troops to burn the temple to the ground at a vulnrable moment.But atleast 3 monks and 1 nun escaped.

You know what the funny thing is? You have wing chun on your poll,but you criticize the shaolin temple? Wing chun also came out of the southern shaolin temple too,so when I choose hung gar ,why did you put down shaolin temple for?

Bak Mei also got his training from the northern branch of the shaolin temple too,until he went on his own and developed his own style.

And plus all kung fu systems are hand to hand combat.Regardless of the situation or espionage.

You know, you talk so good about Northern style of kung fu.On the other topics on this category of the forum.But you put down the southern style of kung fu.Why not just leave the style and respect it instead of criticizing it.But you can criticize all you like, but it probably won't be proving anything.But I can tell you this regardless if the southern style is good or bad.It can improve on it's own , through innovation.If you're open minded towards the martial arts,you can learn many new things.If you're close minded then your knowlegde of the martial arts will be limited.All you do is make fun of an art and criticize it.You need to innovate yourself.Instead of criticizing the southern art innovate it to make it better.

Besides if you don't buy the story of the bak mei legend with the destruction of the temple,why the heck was it burned down then?

Sil Lum Kuen

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-18-2001, 03:47 PM
Look, I can't imagine seeing Pak Mei running around the temple grounds with a torch setting his fellow monks and buildings alight. Not seven Shaw Bros would make such a rediculous story.

I mean, if the shaolin monks were that good a kung fu don't you think they be monitoring the movement of govt troops especially if they're coming that close to the temple grounds.

I think on the balance of probabilities, the monks were beaten fair and square by superior northern kung fu.

Maximus Materialize!

RENEGADE_MONK
05-18-2001, 04:49 PM
Mark of the troll!!!

http://www.geocities.com/ninja3014/goktimus.jpg

Laine Nakachi
05-19-2001, 02:07 AM
burning down the house

Look,I can't imagine seeing Bak Mei running around the temple grounds with a torch setting his fellow monks and building alight.Not even shaw brothers would make such a rediculous story.

******************************************

Ego Extrodinaire,

You're wrong shaw brothers did make a movie, about bak mei's connection to the shaolin temple.See the movie Exectioners of Death. Bak mei was killed with the techniques of the tiger / crane.The movie may have been fictious and exaggerated but it should gave us an idea, of what happened.

Besides, bak mei hated shaolin,that's why he burned down the temple.why would he set his own monks and buildings alight.

What's your point ? You want everybody to agree with you,that northern kung fu is the superior ? Sure,I can admit that northen style kung fu is the best.But bear in mind that southern style kung fu can be just as good with practice too.If you're in an elevator as an example , northern kung fu would'nt work.

And plus the shaolin monks would be negotating or watching the actions of the government troops,before taking actions.
Sure the monks may have gotten beaten up,but they got their revenge right ? and won.

You see ego,kung fu regardless if it's southern or northern.It came with a philosophy , not just fighting.But you can do your own research on the philosophy area.Besides,ego what do you have against shaolin anyway? If you don't like shaolin kung fu or any other southern styles of kung fu.Then stay away from the southern section.I like northern and southern style of kung fu.

Sil Lum Kuen

Laine Nakachi
05-19-2001, 10:48 AM
Ego ,

First, let me make some corrections.Bak mei died of old age, not by the tiger / crane techniques.

And plus,even though , the manchurian government had their own kung fu experts, and fought and killed the shaolin monks.There still were shaolin monks around anyway.So they could'nt get rid of the entire shaolin monks.So that's why shaolin temple was hard to beat.Which includes
northern and southern shaolin temple.

Sil Lum Kuen

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-19-2001, 02:48 PM
Sil Lum Kuen,

I don't have anything against Shaolin kung fu as i'm just trying to get to the bottom of some historical points.

The fact that the temple was burned down showed that Shaolin was defeated by manchurian troops. You don't have to score a 100% kill rate to win a battle or war. If that was the aim - it would be a stupid strategy. Put it another way, the manchurrians have done enough by destroying the command centre (or what they perceived to be) for the rebles in the temple.

As for philosophy, perhaps the monks shouldn't have let that got in the way of good military strategy.

Maximus Materialize!

greyseal
05-21-2001, 04:18 AM
:o Now I know why people think the way they do about New Jersey. Please believe me when I tell you we are all not like this Ego cat.

Laine Nakachi
05-21-2001, 07:38 AM
Ego,

I don't have anything against shaolin kung
fu as I'm just trying to get to the bottom
of some historical points.

Sure,then why are you talking bad
about shaolin monks then ?

The fact that the temple was burned down showed that shaolin was defeated by manchurian troops.

Just because the shaolin temple had
burned down.It does'nt mean the
monks were defeated.They escaped from
the burning temple, but not defeated.

You don't have to score a 100 % kill rate to win a battle or war.If that was aim -
it would be a stupid strategy.

Maybe it was because,although the
manchurian troops did burn the shaolin
temple.But could'nt kill all the monks
,they only managed to burn the temple.
But monks returned to the temple,when
it was in ashes.The monks knew to,
that they could'nt take on all the
manchurian troops.So the monks had a
strategy, kill the manchurain troops,
little by little at a time.That's why
the monks themselves had scattered and
had a certain place to meet.

Put it in another way,the manchurians have done enough by destroying the command center ( or what they perceived to be ) for the rebles in the temple.

Eventhough the manchurian troops had
burned down the temple.The monks
could've met where it was secluded.So
what good is only burning down the
temple,when manchurian troops could'nt
do enough to kill the entire shaolin
monks.

As for the Philosophy,perhaps the monks should'nt have let that got in the way of good military strategy.

When I meant philosophy,I meant
respecting all chinese martial art.
Regardless of styles and systems,
Northern or Southern.You know,I only
don't like one southern shaolin kung
fu system.But I don't criticize it,or
talk bad about it.I just leave it
alone and respect it.What you're
mainly talking about is strategy.

Knowledge is power !

Sil Lum Kuen

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-21-2001, 04:03 PM
Aw come on! you expect anyone to believe that their strategy was to let their base of operation get destroyed, so they can scatter ( as opposed to making a strategic withdrawal) so that they can kill the enemy a little at a time LOL.

Put it this way, many monks got killed and a few escaped. One of their leading students Eong Fei Hung became a small time rebel and didn't even extract revenge from Pak Mei (who lived to a ripe old age).

Now you see the useless of Shaolin Kung Fu and the spinlessness of the deciples. They basically got slaughtered. out with the sword and off with their heads - I bet u that's how easy it must have been.

Maximus Materialize!

Laine Nakachi
05-24-2001, 10:09 AM
Aw come on ! you expect anyone to believe that their strategy was to let their base of operation get destroyed , so they can scatter ( as oppose to making a strategic withdrawl ) so they can kill the enemy a little at a time LOL .

Put it this, many monks got killed and a few escaped.One of their leading students Eong Fei Hung, became a small time rebel and did'nt even extract revenge from Pak Mei ( who lived to ripe old age ) .

Now you see the useless of shaolin kung fu
and the spinelessness of disciples. They basically got slaughtered.Out with the sword and off with their heads - I bet u that's how easy it must have been .

Maximus Materials !

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Ego,

Believe it or not that's how they killed off the manchurian troops one by one.Silly strategy , but it worked did'nt it.

And plus many of the good fighters were northern kung fu practitioners.But because the northern branch of the shaolin temple always had trouble.The northern kung fu pratitioners came down to the southern branch of the shaolin temple and began teaching the disciples.

And Wong Fei Hung's father was a shaolin disciple.The Hung Ga style ,but wong fei hung learned from the fathers sifu.Because wong fei hung's father refuse to teach wong fei hung himself.And when wong fei hung was living , pak mei was probabaly already dead.If this 2 kung fu sifus was alive at that time , only the best will determine the best.Bak Mei got his knowlegde from the shaolin temple in northern china.When he went on his own he had refined his own kung fu skills.
And wong fei hung was'nt a rebel,he was taught good kung fu and the teachings that came along with it.

If shaolin kung fu was junk and useless, then why are there alot of advertisement of shaolin kungfu.Especially on the pages of Kung Fu / Qi Qong magazine.Of which this forum is associated with.And there are a lot of styles or systems that were developed in the north, which style ? All the styles or only certain ones ?

Northern style is basically changchuan , bagua,Pek Sil Lum,wu tang.Northern eagle claw and so on.And if shaolin kung fu is junk then , tell me which system is good then ? You keep on insisting that shaolin
kung fu is useless,then which southern system is good then ?


Sil Lum Kuen

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-24-2001, 02:45 PM
Now that you've brought it up, it is very difficult to determine what is Shaolin and what isn't shaolin. A lot of styles today claim to be Shaolin because some where along its linage it was taught to some of the monks in Shaolin or rebels who knew the styles becoame monks at Shaolin. All along i tried to keep the discussion simple but it isn't possible anymore from your response in your last post.

However, the originations and developments of many styles came from the military eg. Eagle claw, Hsing I. However, these styles were ultimately derived from Long Fist - which is not Shaolin but originated from the Muslim minorities. Over the many generations however, these styles found their way to Shaolin temple and I guess that is what you refer to as Northern Shaolin.

So I guess at the time of the rebellion, there's basically a whole lot of ppl some rebels some weren't living at shaolin temple. They may or may not have been good fighters we don't know. But what I would imagine is that the Manchurians not only had more good fighters but were also better armed. there was no way a group of rebels no matter how good fighters they are could stand against a professional army.

As for Pak Mei, most of the development occurred in the south and it shares alot of similarities with Fukkien White Crane, Southern Mantis and Wing Chun. That is not to say that the ideas did not originally come from the North. Maybe maybe not who knows - people do travel around in those days!

But it does appear that Northern styles like the ones mentioned are more well thought out. I suspect that it's because they have had greater exposure to combat, whereas southern systems tend to be "family styles" and more specialised to certain biases of their creators.

But if you look like northern paraying mantis which orignated from shandong, it was basically a rough area with lots of bad dudes around. So you can say the development of mantis was the result of the natural selection of many different systems and accordingly the derived system (ie mantis) is very practical for combat.

Maximus Materialize!

Laine Nakachi
05-26-2001, 07:22 AM
Now that you've bought it up,it
is very difficult to determine what shaolin and what isn't shaolin.A lot of styles today claim to be shaolin because some where along its lineage it was taught to some of the monks in shaolin or rebels who knew the styles became monks at Shaolin.All along I tried to keep the discussions simple but it isn't possible anymore from your response in your last post.

However, the originations and developments of many styles came from the military eg.Eagle Claw,
Hsing I.However,these styles were ultimately derived from Long Fist
- which is not Shaolin but originated from the Muslim minorities.Over the many generations however, these styles found their way to Shaolin temple and I guess that is what you refer to as Northern Shaolin.

So I guess at the time of the rebellion,there's basically a whole lot of people some were'jnt living at shaolin temple.They may or may not have been good fighters we don't know.But what I would imagine is that the Manchurians not only had more good fighters but were also better armed.There was no way a group of rebels no matter how good fighters they are could stand against a proffessional army.

As for Pak Mei,most of the development occurred in the south and it shares alot of similarities with Fukien white crane,Southern Mantis and Wing Chun.That is not to say that the ideas did not originally come from the North.Maybe Maybe not who knows - people do travel around in those days!

But it does appear that Northern styles like the ones mentioned are more well thought out.I suspect that it's because they have had greater exposure to combat,whereas southern systems
tend to be " family styles " and more specialized to certain biases of their creators.

But if you look like northern praying mantis which originated from shandong,it was basically a rough area with lots of bad dudes around.So you can say the development of mantis was the result of the natural selection of many different systems and accordingly the derived system
( ie mantis) is very practical for combat.

Maximus Materialize!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ego,

If you wanted to keep the discussions simple,I can understand that.The main reason why I said what I said in my last post reply to your topic,as because I did'nt like the way you were talking about the shaolin monks.
>> No you see the useless of shaolin kung fu and the spinelessness of disciples.They basically got slaughtered.Out with the sword and off wih their heads - I bet u that's how easy it must have been.<<<

And as I read all your replies to my posts.I though that you were arrogant,and either challenging me ,or playing games with me .So I decided to play along with you anyway.You got to watch what you're saying otherwise you create trouble for yourself.I learn this things long time ago.
Your last reply to my post really ****ed me off.That's why I came out with all that things,I had written in my last reply to your post.

I myself had done alot of research on different kung fu systems or styles.I also had plugged in with people who had been into kung fu alot more longer than me.So I learned from them.We could've like you said kept the discusions simple.But I guess that you probably did'nt care what you were saying as you were writting your replies to my post.Always remember that ,in this world or society today.You start trouble you get trouble.

I do agree with you on:

originations and developments of many styles from the military eg.

The rebellion,there's basically a whole lot of people some rebels some were'nt living at shaolin temple.They may or may not have been good fighters we don't know.

But what I would imagine is that the Manchurians not only had more good fighters but were also better armed.

As for Pak Mei, most of the developent occurred in the south and it shares alot of similarities with fukien white crane,southern mantis and wing chun.That is not to say that the ideas did not originally come from the north.Maybe not,who knows - people do travel around in those days!

Northern styles like the ones mentioned are more well thought out.I suspect that it's because they have had greater exposure to combat.

Whereas southern systems tend to be " family styles" and more specialized to certain biases of their creators.

Northern praying mantis which originated from shandong.Which basically a rough area with lots of bad dudes around.The development of mantis was the result of the natural selection of many different systems and accordingly derived system
( ie mantis) is very practical for combat.

Sil Lum Kuen

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-26-2001, 08:04 AM
Sil Lum Kuen,

It's ancient history that occurred 300+ years ago. Why should you be upset if someone else has a low opinion of shaoilin monks or even kung fu in general? I see that everyone is enitled to voice their opinion be it supported by facts or not.

Remember, no where in my post has then been a personal attack or challenge to you. I may have expressed an opinion of what you said but all that is pertaining to historical events.

i see that would bring as much trouble to myself as saying that Alexander was not so great, William Wallace was not that that Brave or Gangas wasn't such a Ku*t.

Maximus Materialize!

Laine Nakachi
05-27-2001, 05:33 AM
Ego ,

You know what, you need psychological help.No wonder people like you,are disliked by other people on this forum.

At this time you can say whatever you like to say about shaolin monks it does'nt matter to me already.Your mind is twisted , too bad you're on this forum.You just can't show respect for people,can you ? No matter if it's ancient history or what.It's still talking bad about shaolin monks.Ancient history is how people learn about certain places.

Sil Lum Kuen
Shaolin Kung Fu is the best!

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-28-2001, 02:54 PM
Sil Lum Kuen,

People love me on this forum, you just can't handle that.

You still haven't given me a satisfactory reason why speaking bad about shaolin monks is taken by you personally when you've agreed that its ancient history.

Perhaps you're the one who need psychological help. For one who thinks that shaolin kung fu is good against overwhelming evidence that it's crap - you could consider seeking help right away.

Maximus Materialize!