Close range power and real sensitivity

[Joakim Svensson]

Close range power and real sensitivity

I am wondering how many people have felt
real close range power. And how many who
have really been exposed to a Wing Chun
practitoner with real sensitivity.

What I felt when I found this out was
Gheeeeee - Woaw - Oh my ... - What the heck was that!
And a few minutes later I was wondering
what I had spent the 10 previous years
doing. Before this meeting I believed what
I was doing and had seen before was Wing Chun
but it really wasn't.

It was like everything at last came together.
Yes this is it, this is how it was meant to be,
this is Wing Chun at its highest level.

So what to do ? Close your eyes and turn your
back on the truth. This would have been
the easiest solution. Because I knew at
once that to get this I had to start over
again. Start from the beginning, empty
my cup.

Too many people have invested alot of time
to build up to their current status and
to give all this up and start once again
takes alot of trust and determination.
But once you understand, there really are
no way out of it.

I see alot of Wing Chun practitioners that
have no idea what they are missing out on.
They practice and practice and practice and
talk about how good Wing Chun is but they
have all missed the essence.

If you have the opportunity to go to a seminar
with for example Kenneth Chung or any of his
top students like Carl Dechiara you will be
exposed to this. Not only will they talk about
it but they will also have you feel it. You can
try things and see how they use real
sensitivity and you will also feel the close
range power.

So please do yourself a favour and find a school
that can show you how it is supposed to be!

Best regards
Joakim

www.wing-chun.nu
www.go.to/wingchun

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by Joakim Svensson
If you have the opportunity to go to a seminar
with for example Kenneth Chung or any of his
top students like Carl Dechiara you will be
exposed to this. Not only will they talk about
it but they will also have you feel it. You can
try things and see how they use real
sensitivity and you will also feel the close
range power.

Wow, Kenneth Chung and Carl Dechiara must really appreciate you going to such great lengths to spread the word about their magnificence! I hope that in return they will fill you with their 'energy.'

Cheers!

[red5angel]

Why odnt you show some respect for someone elses instructor. The guy likes who is learning from and what he is learning. He is impressed with Carl Dechiara and Kenneth Chung, I have a feeling if you touch hands with them you would too. Along with a lot of other people out there in the Wing chun world who have worked hard to get where they are.
I am sick and tired of Wing Chun people always picking on each other. Just because our lineages or our current "masters" dont get a long doesnt mean we dont have to. You go to other martial arts forums and WC is the butt of many a joke becuase of this. I can see why, you go to other forums and you find a lot of questions and a good amount of respect. Here we have a lot of trolling, alot of disrespect.
Alpha dog if you havent touched hands with someone who REALLY knows what they are doing you need to, before you touch hands with anyone else, you have no right to judge. Sunkuen is a troll, but I have seen some well thought out stuff from you, and you deserve to represent yourself better then this.

[Alpha Dog]

I am just clowning around, no disrespect intended to anyone's Sifu!

On a more serious note, I'm glad that you enjoy some of my posts -- we're not going to agree on everything, though, so no sense in arguing that.

Furthermore, I find posts to the tune of "My Sifu is awesome!" to be vaccuous, promotional, and potentially embarrassing -- if I were a Sifu and my students were on the Internet bragging about me, I would tell them to afford me the dignity of speaking for myself, or else go elsewhere to study. If I needed marketing services, I'd hire professionals -- at least that way I could control my image a bit.

But that is just me -- again, we aren't going to agree on everything.

Still, I will keep your opinion in mind. Deal?

PS -- this thought just came to me: w/rt your concerns about Wing Chun in-fighting, have you ever studied financial auditing? (Not that you should, it's boring as heII) One of the first things an auditor is SUPPOSED to check for is "the tone at the top." In other words, bad behaviour trickles down -- not sure if this applies in the Wing Chun world though!!

[red5angel]

Sounds like a deal Alpha. Sorry if it sounded like a rant but as much as I love to get useful information off this forum I hate to wade through the crap!
As for spouting off about ones own sifu, well, I train in the same lineage as Joakim. I train in minneapolis but have met Carl and was honestly impressed by his honesty and what he had to say. Some people may not see eye to eye on some things with him, he does believe in Qi, and by the way I know the whole energy thing this sunkuen was trolling for, its not what it sounds like. Anyway, whether you believe in the same stuff he does or not, for myself I am on the fence about it all, he has something the majority of WC people I have not seen before. He touched hands with my former instructor, who I had considered very good, and he had TOTAL control the entire time. But alas it is something you have to see for yourself.
I have also met others in the WC community who are very good. I trained with Yuanfen for a short time and he was an excellent instructor, I never got to touch hands with him but I did feel his power and was very impressed.
Ultimately the point is, alot of people are willing to criticize others for small things when ultimately if it works for you, thats great. Myself, well, I will go to just about any WC seminar that comes ot the area just to see what others are up to and to learn something. I even went to a 2nd Boztepe seminar recently although I will not return to any of his others.

[yuanfen]

Alpha dog sez:
One of the first things an auditor is SUPPOSED to check for is "the tone at the top." In other words, bad behaviour trickles down -- not sure if this applies in the Wing Chun world though!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(The huge Anderson accounting firm has demonstrated that well
in its downward spiral from the top in the US.Apart from Enron-they were a disaster with a church related retirement fund scheme here in Arizona.After reaching a settlement, they started backing out of it!!))





red5angel sez:
I have also met others in the WC community who are very good. I trained with Yuanfen for a short time and he was an excellent instructor, I never got to touch hands with him but I did feel his power and was very impressed

((Thanks. If memory serves ,you came a couple of times. I didnt try to demonstrate any power. I generally dont do that unless I need to))

[red5angel]

Alpha dog - I am not sure what you mean baout the trickle down theory, can you explain further?

Yuanfen - I did come a few times, you never gave me a direct example of power but used me to do some demonstrations. I am a big guy and I think this gets me 'picked' on at seminars and such! I have got used to being a 'punching dummy' and can get a feel for someones ability by the way they handle a demo, much like touching hands with someone, the more in control they are the higher their skill must be. Atleast in my experience.
No showing off from Yuanfen though! if you got it you got it, no need to show it off.

[Alpha Dog]

When a new auditor is contracted to audit a company's books, one of the first things the auditor needs to determine, in order to assess the overall "riskiness" of the audit, is the attitude of the top management. If the top management are not honest, employees are likely to be dishonest too. If top managment are always fighting about who is really in charge, factions will form inside the company, dividing loyalty, reducing productivity and creating opportunities for malicious behavior. These examples of cacaphonous "tone at the top" increase the risk that the auditor will be deceived and, by extension, that the public will be deceived about the overall healthiness of the company.

Of course, if the risk of material misstatement is too great, the auditor should refuse the business or otherwise put pressure on top management to adopt better practices. But as Yuanfen has noticed, this doesn't always happen.

Of course, these are purely Western conceptions of honesty and fairness.....

[red5angel]

Gotcha AD! Its one of the things I looked for here. My instructors dont make any comments really on anyone elses teaching. Even if we find something that is very different from what they are teaching they often just say "This is how WE do it." Its good to be part of a school that is concerned with training and not politics.

By the way Yuanfen, I work for Deloitte and Touche here in minneapolis. We are taking on thier auditors in the next few months! The things I keep hearing about these guys makes me leary!

[Alpha Dog]

I was envisioning something a little more historical but if that works for you, fine.

In the same way, shouldn't the "real" Wing Chun also "work for you"? Remember a thread a while back about tut sao? Everyone hates it, but they still practice it religiously. That's just one example.

[gnugear]

Yep.

Once I felt it, I threw everything out the window and started over from scratch. I'd been in another style for seven years, but never considered it a waste. It just made me appreciate Wing Chun that much more.

I never would have believed in soft energy until I really got thumped in the chest for the "first time". I remember my "voice" expelling involuntarily, and my lungs feeling like they were in my stomach.:)

Good stuff when expereinced with the right people.

[red5angel]

I understand AD, I was thinking more locally because that is where it is going ot have to change. The older generations of wing chun are the ones who are generally fighting. The younger generation tends to pick up on this and fight for reasons they may not understand and really arent necessary. I say if what you do works for you then go for it.

[Chris99]

Hello AD,

Historically our lineage is very quiet...Leung Sheung didn't even advertise his school. Ken Chung and Carl are also pretty quiet...some of us just wanted to share what we have experienced first hand. Soft energy is really an eye-opener the first time it is felt and not normally seen.

Chris

[red5angel]

Chris99 is correct, it is hard to judge it without first feeling it. Like I said AD, you should stop by one of his schools or seminars if you get the chance, whether it changes your mind or not I can almost guarentee you will learn something!

[Alpha Dog]

No offense, honest. I was just clowning around. I will take advantage of any opportunity to check you out for myself and if you rock, I will come out here and say so.

[Sabu]

I fail to understant the need to extoll one's sifu's virtues for the public, and hide behind the veil of humility in so doing.

[sunkuen]

They call it.....SPAM!!! The forum is overflowing with SPAMMERS right now. gnugear, chriss99, joakim sevenson, red5angle,byond, Guilty as charged. Sorry if I missed anybody!!!:D

[Alpha Dog]

:eek:

You mean we have been infomercialled??

Shameless!

[CLOUD ONE]

Sunny you forgot whippy?

[red5angel]

Carls Top students from his school in Ohio are going to a tourney this weekend. Feel free to show up and watch them put thier money where thier mouth is!

the tourney is at Cleveland State . Euclid and E 24th, Starts at 9 AM

[sunkuen]

Whippy aint here anymore....besides whippy wasnt a spammer, more of a troll!!!

[yuanfen]

Trolls and trolls. Whipping hand was in a class by himself. No spamming, just analytical snippets exposing self serving hypocrisy
and arrogance along the way in the masked jungle.

[Alpha Dog]

<sniggger>

*sorry, gotta spell it that way LOL. nice autocensorship software by the way

[Sabu]

Originally posted by red5angel
Carls Top students from his school in Ohio are going to a tourney this weekend. Feel free to show up and watch them put thier money where thier mouth is!

Wing Chun for tournaments??!?!?! Funny jokes. hahaha. Even Hathi III (my elephant) is rolling in the hay.

Seriously, humbly, however, how people misplace their Wing Chun training is no laughing matter.

Red5angel, it is not kind of you to proclaim someone else's WC shortcomings and misguided efforts.

[red5angel]

Sabu - I am not sure what you mean about Wing Chun in tournemants. I think its about time someone stepped up to that arena and gave it a real try. Some of us may not be concerned with that sort of thing, others may just enjoy it. You say why, I say why not.

I proclaim no ones no ones shortcomings or misguided efforts. Take a trip to ohio this weekend, see for yourself

[wingchunner]

I go to tournaments sometimes. When I go, to do my best and to see what other schools are like, whether they have a good root or sensitivity. It's not a real fighting scenario because there are rules, but, I still get to touch hands with someone out side of my class that I wouldn't normally. Yes, it would be nice to win, but my goal is to just do my best with the skills I have and to learn what other people's WC is like (a little bit).
It's a learning experience for me vs. a competition.

Marty

[red5angel]

Wingchunner, I think this is a good attitude. Even if you loose your matches you still walk away knowing something about your skils and your self.

[Sabu]

Again with jokes!!!! Please... please... oh please stop this.. I cannot think clearly when you are making me laugh so much...

You cannot be trying to convince me that one's skill in Wing Chun is measured by one's success in a tournament. You're not trying to convince me, are you?

[red5angel]

Nope, not trying to convince anyone of anything. The ring or arena is just one of a multitude of places to show your ability in Wing Chun.

Ones measure of success in a thing is how well they live up to the standards of a thing. If you know wing chun, then a tournemant is as good a place as any to see successful wing chun.

[Sabu]

Originally posted by red5angel
If you know wing chun, then a tournemant is as good a place as any to see successful wing chun.

Do you know Wing Chun?

[anerlich]

Question for all - could Sabu be Whippinghand? There are similarities.

[Sabu]

I am under the impression that this consideration would be a great honor!

[yuanfen]

Sabu: He seems too deferential to be Whipping Hand. The real new face is RH- he is now both a shameless Cheung spammer and a troll.

[yuanfen]

how so?

[stonecrusher69]

can you tell me if know of anyone from Leong shan lin. if there is anyone in NY that teaches.
Thanks..

[Chris99]

Hi SC,

Do you mean Leung Sheung?

[stonecrusher69]

yes, Leung Sheung.Sorry for the poor spelling of his name.Can you tell in your opinion what he does or is different compared to other students of Yip Man that is quite different.

[Chris99]

Hi SC,

There is a school in Rochester, NY.

http://www.rochesterwingchun.com/

I am a poor person to ask this question of as I am still very new to Wing Chun. One difference I have noticed is that our stance is much deeper than I have usually seen. The seniors in our lineage stress what seems to be a softer approach than I have generally seen.


Chris

http://www.wing-chun.nu/

[stonecrusher69]

Thanks for the information I'll check it out.

[red5angel]

Stonecrusher69 - Kathy Jo who teaches at that school is also on this board from time to time, I think she goes by kj. Although I have never touched hands withe her or even met her personally, I am on another forum she participates in frequently and she seems very knowledgeable as well as a genuine nice person.

[yuanfen]

There is another good classmate of Kenneth Chung in NY
and KJ is in touch with him from time to time. He does not have a school. If you are interested in that line of teaching KJ is an excellent source of information.

[kj]

Thanks red5angel and Yuanfen. Anyone interested need only to ask. :)

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[reneritchie]

If Dave (Sihing73) were still as active, I'm sure he'd point out that Chung Kwok Chow sifu, a grandstudent of Leung Sheung sifu, teaches in NYC (if memory serves - and it sometimes doesn't). And tell you to contact him for details.

The person to whom Joy and KJ are referring to is a *really* great guy and if he's teaching, and you're more upstate, you may want to see if she can arrange something for you. 8)

Rgds,

RR

[stonecrusher69]

Thanks for the information... Chung kwok Chow sifu I know of but did not realize that his teachings come from leung Sheung sifu. Thanks again for all your help.I hope I get to know some of you better..

[kj]

A bit more detail.

Yes, at Rochester Wing Chun we are always looking for a few more good hands and minds. But not just any hands and minds, LOL. We enjoy inquiries at any time.

A bit closer to home for the NYC/NJ areas - where it appears the majority of the U.S. population resides, LOL ...

Yes, Dr. Jack Ling is not far from Albany, and well worth a day trip if it can be arranged. Jack was also a student of Leung Sheung in the early days. He remains well connected with others from Leung Sheung's group, including Ken, Wong Siu and others; in fact he will join us at the upcoming Wing Chun Camp. He is very knowledgable about Wing Chun and Leung Sheung's methods and teachings. As Rene mentioned, he is a super great guy. His enthusiasm and generosity are virtually limitless, though his schedule and life demands are often constraining.

Also Rene mentioned Chung Kwok Chow. Originally from the Leung Sheung line, his approach would no doubt differ from ours in some respects, having developed his own "Integrative" flavor of Wing Chun. He has incorporated ideas from various lineages and approaches, possibly a few elements from outside Wing Chun, and it seems some innovations of his own as well. I met him once, and spoke with him several times; another great guy. More background available at his website: http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com/index3.html .

I believe Allan Fong may still teach somewhere in the NYC area. As I understand it, he was a student of Leung Ting. And of course Leung Ting studied under Leung Sheung at one time. Allan Fong or Mustafa Ucozler may be able to assist inquirers; their website is http://www.iawck.com/ . I have not yet had the privilege to meet Allan or Mustafa, but I sure know Mustafa is passionate about Wing Chun. :)

And if none of those options pan out, it may be worth inquiring with Carl Dechiara. He is currently supporting several groups in the U.S and Europe; so maybe there is some possibility he could be of help. Nothing to lose in asking. See http://www.wing-chun.nu/

Hope something here can be of help. As for the guy who was asking ... after everyone's help and leads, is he still around?

Oops ... there he is (hi stonecrusher). :)

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[stonecrusher69]

KJ, thanks for your help and the information you provided to me about your school.I would like to come up to your school in Rochester .When I'm can I'll let you know maybe we can work something out.Can you tell me if your W.C. is different From Leung Ting's style.I have seen his videos and have his book so I'm familiar with his style.I also met him a long time ago when he can to NYC. Dr Jack Ling I also would like to meet do you know how to contact him?

KJ thanks again hope we can talk again soon..

[kj]

Originally posted by stonecrusher69
KJ, thanks for your help and the information you provided to me about your school.I would like to come up to your school in Rochester .

...

Dr Jack Ling I also would like to meet do you know how to contact him?

You are welcome for the info. It would be great to meet you. Email me via my profile and we can work toward getting you connected with Jack also.


Can you tell me if your W.C. is different From Leung Ting's style.I have seen his videos and have his book so I'm familiar with his style.I also met him a long time ago when he can to NYC.

Some things may seem quite similar, and other things will no doubt be different from our approach. I have been given to believe that some teachers who learned under Leung Ting at different times teach quite differently from each other; this is true in many families. If so, some teachers who studied under Leung Ting might have more in common with our approach than others. Sorry I can't be more definitive.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo