Internal and heaviness in the hands?

[Fu-Pow]

Does anyone else feel a heavy, tingling feeling in their hands when doing forms?

[Ray Pina]

:)

So I'm not alone after all. Yea, it feels wierd -- like a slight field? not gravity, because its not pulling, but something. Hard to explian.

But its cool because its a tell tail sign. I've also found a way to get the same feeling when walking. I'll incorporate the same up/down hand movent as the Taiji opener (sorry, don't know the name, someone can maybe toss that out for me) but only more low key ... and I get the same result. Just relax and deep breath on up and then down, exhale extending from the shoulder, driving the elbow and flexing the heal of the palm out on the way down.

My master has purposely not discussed it with me as to not corrupt my experince yet. He introdced the exercises to me at the end of summer and then we got to focusing on combat. I hurt my knee and stopped over the winter and became a bit lazy with it. I've started it back up and I can feel a day to day difference in energy level and clear headedness.

[BSH]

Welcome to the world of Internal Kung Fu.

[guohuen]

Hehehe!!!

[Scarletmantis]

The real fun comes when your opponent feels that heaviness during push hands. It suddenly becomes so easy to brush aside his feeble efforts to knock you down... not to mention what happens when he tries to deflect your palm as it comes at him like a slow moving train! God, I love kung fu!

[bearpaw]

Word ...

[Daniel Madar]

Is when you smack someone, and you feel that heaviness hit the person.

Also, it is only the first stage. When you start feeling it spiraling, and drilling and doing all the cute things you thought were only cool descriptions, thats when it really gets groovy.

[Repulsive Monkey]

but now I feel an openess in my fingers almost like they were tubes, and I can feel sick Qi being expelled during the form when practicing a lot more nowadays.

[ratman201]

I wondered what that feeling was. I've been out of class for a month with knee and financial problems and I haven't had the oportunity to ask about it. Question, I'm having a hard time translating this to push hands practice. Any tips?

[Kumkuat]

Yeah, these "feelings" in your hands are probably nothing. What I mean nothing is that it's probably not a sign to say your improving.

[Ray Pina]

Of course not. This does not make mention of good technique. Have all the chi you want, if you have bad technique, you have bad technique.

[Nexus]

T'ai chi is not simply about technique, it is about cultivating life force. One would have to be a fool to not see the significant improvement in the quality of life from increased energy, motivation and willpower, to simply being more free to express oneself. Technique, skill, these are tools which envelope and limit one if they treat them as the final goal.

Anything, chi in the hands, heaviness, all of these are in fact signs of growth. Don't be fooled by people saying you need to do 'this and that, or feel this and that, or be perfect and technique and structure, or application and energy transfer' in order to be considered growing. Growth occurs every time you drop into wuji and begin breathing to the dantien, it occurs every time you part the wild horses mane and every time you move with the flow and intercourse of the breath.

- Nexus

[Ray Pina]

I agree with you -- but my concern here, in martial circles, is technique.

[Scarletmantis]

:rolleyes: Oh puhhleeeze! Sometime you guys can be so pretentious!:rolleyes:

If Fu-Pow is experiencing heavy hands as a legitimate phenomena, then obviously he's doing something right. How are you going to disect his technique when you can't even see it?
Man, the heavy hands jing is not just a sign of growth, it is useful for fighting application. It only happens when the body mechanics are internalized, and it lends TREMENDOUS force to a strike. I don't know how the hard stylists do it, but it's the key to internal breaking power IMHO. Enjoy.

[wangsizhong]

i have noticed a tingling (don't know if i'd call it a heaviness) after push hands. but dont usually notice it during. its usually in the shower afterwards, so maybe its just the temp. difference from outside to warm water...
-Wang Si Zhong

[Nexus]

The more you cultivate in standing meditation, the more you will find your internalizing taking place. The most obvious sensations will occur though when #1. You are not trying, and #2. Are reverse breathing which you may or may not have been introduced to yet. That's an entirely other topic of course.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Whenever i sense "heavyness" in my hands i find that i am usually focusing too much Yi (intent) in that area.. it's a little unbalanced, the hands are a little too Yang.. The heavyness should arrive as the Yi arrives and leave as quickly as the situation demands.. i perceive "heavyness" as loading Qi into a certain area for a certain application (ie: combat or healing) and when it remains there too long the "whole system" begins to become unbalanced..

A certain sense of heavyness in the foundation (below the waist) is appropriate, it is indicative of rooting and stability, but.. it has been my experience that the hands should be light and flowing like water, or as my teacher says "hands and arms should move like a silk banner in a breeze".. Whenever the heavyness appears it is like a camera's flash, it completes the application (intention) and rejoins the Qi flow until another situation presents itself...

That being said, i was referring to Tai Chi.. as a meditation, like Wuji, there is certainly opportunity and cause to feel heavyness in whatever area you "lead" your Qi to.. ie: hands, to strengthen and heal.. Now, the fact that someone notices the heavyness is, itself, notable as evidence of heightened awareness.. it is essential to the ability to move the "heavyness" (if we aren't aware of the heavyness, how can we direct its movement)... In my own experience, the arms and hands (feet and legs, etc..) are the pathways along which the "heavyness" travels to accomplish our "intentions"...

Just another perspective from the Far-side.. be well..

[swmngdragn]

Chi is easy. Mechanics are hard. Just getting the circulation going is not enough, and does not "magically" add to your strikes.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Gee, and I thought I was going crazy. But in all seriousness, being an Iron Palm practitioner,I experience that feeling most of the time.

Damian

[guohuen]

Once you get the mechanics it does add to your speed.

[bamboo_ leaf]

it seems to me that many missed, IMO TC bobs point. How can you play TC and still talk of striking the other?

When someone is unbalanced by there own actions, they become subjected to their own desire (intention) the unbalance starts with the intention of them wanting to hit or attack.

The sooner you can feel this happen the easier it is to maintain your own balance and cause them to be their own undoing.


The speed is the speed of the mind to sense change, the training is one of being able to use direct consciousness in ones actions in accordance with the changes needed. With out this IMO what ever you do is not much different then anything else.


This really requires a totally different mind set then what is expressed here for the most part.

The heaviness that one mentions should be balanced in accordance with lightness or emptiness in the other hand. This is called central balance, while playing the TC set we should see a dynamic balance happing. this applies not only to the hands but whole body.

In push hands the heaviness isn’t used to hit or push but follow the other, the emptiness is used to encounter heaviness, if both are good then there is balance and nothing happens. sometimes both players can be still outside but very active inside. (listening) The one who moves first usually loses. Why because “you start last but arrive first”
This means that you hear the intent of the movement (ting jin) and are able to move in accordance with it and follow it.

for the hand to remain heavy is a kind of double wt. it means that the intent is focused there and not beyound extending out.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

bamboo_leaf - I believe what you say is true. In my situation I feel I have a charged heaviness;meaning that I can slap at will to defend myself. For example, when slapping concrete I no longer have to set up. I can, actually, walk up to the set up and break it with the palm heart, knife edge or back hand. It sounds weird but it can be done.

Nexus - thanks for the tip on reverse breathing it makes the Dragon's Gate open up much easier.


Damian

[Zantesuken]

the explanation i got was that ur chi is "bunching" up or ummmm "focused" i guess in your hand hence the heavy and kind of bloated feeling. well maybe not bloated but kinda pulsating and really red :P

[batesy]

I get the heavy hands sensation when doing taiji form and standing. Doing such things, and bagua etc I get really blotchy hands (I guess from extra blood being pumped into the hands). I also get the following feelings now and again
a. Gentle pins & needles in the arms and face
b. A tickling sensation in the spine (this has happened about three times in a couple of years).

Anyone have any thoughts or explanation for the above symptoms?

Cheers

[Scarletmantis]

Swmng dragon, as far as I can tell, no one here is implying that "Chi" gives some kind of "magic power" to thier strikes. The heavy hand sensation we are discussing is no more than a subjective sensation when you sense it in yourself. However, I personally have the ability to give my opponent the sense that MY hands feel heavy AS THEY HIT HIM. In that sense, the experience has moved out of the realm of subjectivity, and into the realm of objectivity. I will be the first to admit that I am not particularly sensitive to "Chi Sensations", but in my experience, proper body mechanics will produce the heavy hands effect whether or not the student can "feel his Chi". The problem with all of this disscussion is that I am unable to illustrate my point with a demonstration. Darn frustrating!