Why Does Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist Resemble Pak Mei for some reason

[FIRE HAWK]

Why does Chuka Shoalin Phoenix Eye Fist resemble Pak Mei for some reason why do they seem so simalar ?

[Shaolin Master]

Because after so long of fascination with Chuga you are yet to study something so on the surface it still seems the same.
Searching without learning is like walking without a destination it is fun but your not getting anywhere.

Regards

[sanjia]

FIREHAWK :Why does Chuka Shoalin Phoenix Eye Fist resemble Pak Mei for some reason why do they seem so simalar ?

Can I ask you why you think that they do seem similar? I have to admit that the only thing I know about Chuka Shaolin is the book that I have read (Secrets of Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist Kung Fu), and from that book it doesn't resemble Pak Mei. At least not to someone who can distinguish differences between styles. Do you train in this Chuka?

Mark

[FIRE HAWK]

Its the first book on Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist that has things in it that make it seem similar to Pak Mei called Phoenix Eye Fist A Shoalin Fighting Art of South China in this book there are things like the way they hold there hands and use there palms for blocking or parrying and the way they use the Phoenix Fist , the stances dont seem to be the same they are different than Pak Mei but there are things in this first book that look like some things in my Pak Mei books and videos ,or maybe it is because Chuka Shoalin is part Chu Gar southern mantis and i herd a story that Cheung Lai Cheung learned Jook Lum southern mantis or at least some of it or maybe it could be that since Cheung Lai Cheung lived in the Hakka region of canton China and he learned hakka arts and Chuka Shoalin is part hakka kung fu that maybe they just have a common origin. As for me practicing Chuka Shaolin yes i did practice it every day until i had my surgery but i still practice it somewhat still the best that i can.

[CLOUD ONE]

I was told that PakMei the monk had a si-hing dai who is the founder of the Chu Gar tong long.

They are similar but opposite!

[sanjia]

Firehawk : Its the first book on Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist that has things in it that make it seem similar to Pak Mei called

Ah, that'll be why then. I have only seen the second (?) one.

Mark

[EAZ]

Hello,

Chuka Shaolin was one of the most widely practiced martial arts in Vietnam before 1975.

I have yet to question my teacher on this in a detailed manner, and so what I say must be taken with a grain of salt.

My understanding of Chuka is that it is a very physical style with low stances. ALso, the theory behind movement and stances etc is very elaborate and detailed. It is considered still today in vietnam the best "prep schhol" for kung fu before going to one of the SOuthern styles proper.

In Pei Mei in Vietnam, there seems to be a connection between Pei Mei and Chuka. (Although who influenced who I do not know). IN fact CHuka I think has influenced (or vice versa) many Chinese styles in Vietnam.

Basic movements and postures in Pei Mei are taught with what I understand as a chuka flavour (lower stances,etc). Later forms are all done like HK PM

It would be interesting to find out more as you say the realtionship between the two. Before coming to this forum and meeting other Pak Mei practioners who never speak of Chuka, I had always assumed some link between Chuka and SOuthern styles existed, before the "modern" versions, post say 1930s, (modern dragon, modern PM, etc) where everybody seemed to practiced in a more standing position right from the start and to super specilise in one or 2 principles of generating force.

(Does this make sense to anyone)

I have searched for chuka on the web and on paper and have found nothing. If you have any information on this I would be grateful..

[FIRE HAWK]

Grossmeister Chau Quan Ky

Chau Quan Ky (1895-1968) aus der Provinz Guang Dong (Südchina) war ein ethnischer Hakka. Er verlor schon früh seinen Vater, deshalb schickte ihn seine Mutter im Kindesalter zu seinem Gross-Onkel, welcher ein grosser Meister des Kejia (viet. He Phai) war. Im Jahre 1936 immigrierte er via Hong Kong nach Tra Vinh in Südvietnam. Sehr schnell wurden seine Fähigkeiten in der traditionellen Heilkunst und der Kampfkünste bekannt. Doch Grossmeister Chau Quan Ky unterrichtete nur seine chinesischen Landsleute. 1956 verliess er den Ort um sich in Cholon niederzulassen. Er eröffnete eine Praxis für Heilkräuter und Akupunktur, doch verliess er aus nicht weiter bekannten Gründen Cholon, um sich in Gia Dinh niederzulassen. Er eröffnete dort seine erste Schule für Kampfkünste (Vô Doung) und übernahm in einem taoistischen Tempel das Amt eines Zeremoniernmeisters. Seine Schule nannte er Vô Duong Ho Hac Trao. 1957 bis 1968 unterrichtete er Pham Xuan Tong. Dieser wurde auch Nachfolger seiner Schule. Grossmeister Chau Quan Ky starb im Jahre 1968 an einer Gehirnblutung im Spital von Chan Ray.

The Qwan Ki Do/Quan Khi Dao, consists of a synthesis of the extracted fundamental techniques of the Chinese style of the HAKKAS and the millenarian style of School QUAN KHI.
It is thanks to those fundamental techniques trusted Teacher PHAM XUAN TONG, with all his originality, by the Great Teachers of those currents, but also thanks to numerous years of investigation and shown no mercy work that that original and unpublished synthesis to which could exist.

The idea of this synthesis to be to overwhelm the lagoons with each one of the styles by the formidable wealth of the knowledge of the author. The result has been:



QWAN or QUAN that means the set
KI or KHI that means the Energy
DO or DAO that means the Route


QWAN KI DO/QUAN KHI DAO:

The Route of the set of the Energy Corporal


For which QWAN KI DO and QUAN KHI DAO simultaneously?

QWAN KI DO is a Western phonetic transformation to arrive better at I publish neophyte
QUAN KHI DAO is the purely Vietnamese terminology.


Word QWAN KI phonetically remembers simultaneously the name of the old Vietnamese method of Martial Arts, School QUAN KHI (Dynasty of HIM, 980-1009), and the one of Teacher CHAU QUAN KY. With the election of that name Teacher PHAM XUAN TONG honors the memory of his Teacher and the one of the methods of which it is deposit taker.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ORIGENES OF THE QWAN KI DO Current
C H I N A
Current
VIETNAMESE

Teacher
CHAU QUAN KY

(1895-1968)

Descendant of famous family CHAU
Ethnic group of the HAKKAS (Chinese of the South).
Refugee in Tra Vinh (South Vietnam) in 1936
Teachers
PHAM TRU
Uncle Grandfathers of the Tong Teacher (1893-1970)
LONG HO HOI
(1917...)

CHÂU GIA DUONG LANG PHAI
(Tang Lang Nan Pai)
Religious Mantis of the South
THIEU LAM NAM PHAI
(Shao Lin Nan Pai)
Shaolin of the South
NGA MY PHAI
(O-mei PAI)
VO BINH DINH
The south
VO QUANG BINH
Center
VO BACH
NINH
North
School Quan Khi Emperor
HIM HOAN (1009)
It believes in the South Vietnam the school:
VO DUONG HO BEAM TRAO

546, Vo-I gave Nguy (Phu-nhu AN)

Recognized by the Ministry of Sports and Vietnamese Youth
under the number: 40/46
School in Vietnam:
VO DUONG LONG HO HOI

City Hanh Thông Tây
GO VAP (Sur Vietnam)

Direct disciples
Tang-dong-thanu (Passed away)
PHAM MINH KINH (Vietnam)
PHAM XUAN TONG (France) successive executor
Direct disciples
NGUYEN GO HAI
TRAN MINH THANH
VU GO THINH
PHAM XUAN TONG

Philosophical Influences
TAOISMO - CONFUCIANISMO
Philosophical Influences
Cult to the Ancestors - BUDDHISM

From 1957 to 1968 - Teacher PHAM XUAN TONG trains in Vietnam
1968 Teacher PHAM XUAN TONG is transferred France

1980 Nace the synthesis:
QWAN KI DO

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&scoring=r&q=Quan+Ky+Do&btnG=Google+Search

[FIRE HAWK]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&scoring=r&q=Quan+Ky+Do&btnG=Google+Search

[FIRE HAWK]

CHÂU GIA DUONG LANG PHAI
(Tang Lang Nan Pai)
Religious Mantis of the South
THIEU LAM NAM PHAI
(Shao Lin Nan Pai)
Shaolin of the South
NGA MY PHAI
(O-mei PAI)

[FIRE HAWK]

There are three Chuka Shaolins in Malaysia that go by the name of Chuka Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist brought there in 1930 by Lee Siong Pheow wich is half of some kind of Chu Gar southern Mantis from Mainland China and Chuka Chu gar southern mantis from Hong Kong that is there and also Jow Ga is called Chuka in Malaysia . From what i understand South East Asian countrys call there arts Chuka to refer to there arts?

[FIRE HAWK]

http://www.vietanhmon.org/fthieulam.htm

[FIRE HAWK]

I dont know if there is a conection between Malaysian Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist and the Chuka Shaolins from Vietnam or not and i would like to know more about the conection of the Vietnam Chuka Shaolin and Vietnam Pak Mei too .Maybe you could ask your teacher about this subject.There seems to be some conection.

[Tiger on Duty]

I have the first book in question and yes there are some smiliarities but they are more in fighting principle than actual style similiarties or movements, the malaysian chuka is more similiar to southern mantis than pak mei, footwork is very different and stance is very old school and power is not same it is more arm punching of mantis and wing chun and not much hips.
Still looks like no nonsense style though, and if u look at most short to med range fist styles they are all similiar in certain ways, leegar-pak mei-smantis-dragon-butterflyfist-wingchun they all use similiar principles of combat, and thus there will always be comparisons.

[EAZ]

Many thanks for your efforts. I think I have heard of KWan Qui Do, though I never traced the relationship with Chuka.

I have lsot contact with my viet friends by email and it is so expensive to call and foreever to wite, but as soon as I can I shall find out more from the horse's mouth.

My Sifu is returning from Vietnam in June and I will be sure to ask him more.

In the meantime I shall pursue the interesting links you suggested.

Thank you for your help, this is what the web is for... (among other things).

EAZ