Dear moderators

[Peter Aarts]

So, it´s not allowed to show some pictures of sifu Barry Lee doing some amazing stuff, and wondering what its good for?
(Hé, I didn´t make these pictures, or put them on the internet.)
I think its ordinary WC-stuff and it should be legal to put these on the forum. Or am I totally wrong??
Please, keep me updated.

Cheers,

Peter.

[red5angel]

so that string was removed?

[Peter Aarts]

Looks like it. Do you have any idea why?
I really was wondering what the application could be of these postures.

Peter.

[red5angel]

Not sure really, unless someone got on and posted something negative but then I woudl assume they would just edit the post. I posted saying I thought it might be one of those strong dan tien type things.
Well, I would find it odd that it was delted for its content, you seemed to be asking an honest question anyway. I hope they let you know.

[kungfu cowboy]

Maybe there was a glitch. Post it again. It was just a link, right?

[Peter Aarts]

It´s not because of your answer, cause they would, as you already mentioned, just edit or vanish (they can) your post, and not my thread.

Peter.

[Peter Aarts]

Ok, here it comes again!
http://www.wing-chun.nl
Look at the Barry Lee seminar pictures. The waist thing!

Peter

[red5angel]

Hopefully Sihing73 will see this. I am curious to know why the crackdown on free speach? Ok ok we have moderators for a reason, but why are we not allowed to express our opinions on someones talents, way of teaching, organization, what have you. Seems like if we say something disparaging lately it gets shutdown.
Now I for one am against people slandering others they do not know, I might even ask them to stop, but I wouldnt stop them! I think as long as it is on the discussion level whats the problem? If it gets out of hand then ban it.

[Peter Aarts]

I totally agree. Even more: When I post my opinion on this forum, it´s likely to get comment which I might disagree with. But that´s no point for feeling offended. These forums are for posting different ideas. When one doesn´t like the ideas of others, or doesn´t like to be criticised, one should stay off. Simply as that.

But here, this was not the case!

Peter.

[kungfu cowboy]

I don't understand the significance of that demonstration. Are we supposed to be surprised that several people cannot push him through a solid brick wall?

[JasBourne]

Umm, looked like an old guy with his back against the wall, with people pushing on his crossed arms, pics billed as "Barry Lee's famous powerful waist demonstration". Whatever.

[kungfu cowboy]

Ahh, yes! Thanks for clearing that up! Hey Jasbourne, are you still looking for that "Apotheosis" song? A friend of my bought it off a dj a few years back and I can put it on kazaa for ya.

[Sihing73]

Hello Peter,

Not sure what you intended with the orignal thread and only took a quick look at it. I have not visited the web site you mention as I have been conserving my time and energy. I am basically browsing the forum of late not really reading or getting into more than a couple of discussions. More for thought provoking for myself than other reasons, selfish I admit.

I have no problem with anything posted which is not degrading to others so I percieve no problem thus far here. Not sure about the original thread as I said, I only browsed it and it was either moved or deleted.

Anyhow you addressed Moderators and as I am one I felt obliged to reply. TIFWIW. :)

Peace,

Dave

[vingtsunstudent]

for the idiots
of coarse no-one would allow themselves to be trapped against a wall.
why not try it for yourself though?
stand against a wall, put your arm across your body, now have several people pin it there, use nothing more than your waist (which is against the wall, as well as the feet) & free arm to see if you can free yourself.
it is merely a way of demonstrating the use of the waist(one which wong shun leung also did) & also if i remember correctly a principle from biu gee.
it is not my responsibility to list all of barry's injuries but i will say that doctors & specialists agree he should not even be able to walk let alone teach.
besides that, what else have you got that you don't like from those pictures, come on, speak up peter & the rest.
also where are these copies of the e-mails you sent(oops sorry botha)
it seems that, peter, you are on a personal crusade to try & put down my sifu, and why, simply because you got called by me & few others for self promoting & trolling.
weak my friend, very weak.
the only problem is because of your blindness you will never visit this man for a training session & discover his unique knowledge of this wonderful system.
the simple facts are that he was the top gwie lo fighter under wong shun leung & one of his best period.
you only embarrass & disgrace yourself with this little vendetta you have.
if you put as much into your training as you do running around the internet to try and find anything to make this man look bad, you may eventually get somewhere but i doubt it.
vts

[vt108]

You are really pathetic Botha (sorry, Peter). You just don't understand what Sifu Barry Lee wants to demonstrate. But you never will so there is no sense explaining this to you.

Vingtsunstudent:
Where have you been so long?

[Sihing73]

Hi Guys,

The last entries may be an indication of why the original thread was removed if they are any indication of the type of postings.

Irregardless of the merit, or lack of it, to be found within these posts they serve no purpose. I think everyones position is clear and most have already made up their minds. The content of VTS post is valid but the tone could be a bit softer ;)

Lets not digress into another name calling match. IT gets us nowhere.

FWIW; I have always been told that of the late WSL's students the best technical student was David Peterson. The best "fighter" without question was always named as Barry Lee. That in and of itself should tell you something. His somewhat harsh and rather extreme training methods were, I believe, what led to the nickname the "Machine". While some may hove taken offense to the nickname we all have them. Mine is the "sunflower" or also "lost cause". Oh no someone is sure to take offense and bring me to task for this, lol. Come on guys lighten up.

Don't let personalities get in the way of communicating in a productful manner. Besides guys, I really should not be up this late doing all this typing. I should be resting, remember I did ask everyone to behave :D

Peace,

Dave

[vingtsunstudent]

don't worry dave i've given up on the name calling(i hope).
i will, however, still call a spade a spade.
vt108
i've been lurking but as was my original intenion here i will only post when someone asks a question to which i feel i could add something to.
how have you been & hope all is well.
vts

[Peter Aarts]

Dear VTS aka VT-108

Thank you for your answer. I was really wondering what the power waist demo was meant for. If you say this is an applicaton from the Biu Tzje meanwhile Sifu Barry Lee should in fact be on a wheel chair, I just think this is great. I really do.


What else do you have got what you don´t like from those pictures
Com´on, did I say anything like that? I think they are all great!


... try and find anything to make this man look bad
I didn´t know you felt offended by these pictures.


Sihing73:


The last entries may be an indication of why the original thread was removed
So you just close a serious thread about WC on forehand, because maybe you´ll get some nasty replies from people who are feeling easily offended and get insulting?

Cheers,

Peter.

******Peter, I don't recall saying that I closed or deleted anything. It was an observation and actually not even directed in your direction. Despite what you seem to believe I am not the ultimate authority on this board, there are others that do things too. I do, however, try to represent my actions and keep things running smoothly. If that results in the "closing" of a thread which is filled with insults and no real productive communication then I will do. I will also admit mistakes when I make them and take responsibility for my actions. I hope this is clear enough. Peace, Dave********

[Sharky]

hah

[vt108]

"Dear VTS aka VT-108"

Jesus! Peter Aarts! You have a serious problem. Please, change your doctor! This one is lying to you! And maybe, a liitle less medicaments would be OK for you.

[vingtsunstudent]

peter
again i don't need to do or say anything.
you do such a fine job yourself.
if you feel i or anybody else on here can't read between the lines & see your pathetically attempted revenge trip then you are an even bigger fool than i already thought, which is something i thought to be impossible.
thank you for teaching me something new on this wonderous day.
ah, if you only knew.
vts
ps i think that if me & vt108 were one & the same it would have been found out by dave, remember him, the super spy who discovered you & botha share the same ip.
i hope vt108 doesn't mind me saying but i do know that he is MUCH closer to you than i.

[red5angel]

Hey guys, I think Peters original intention was just to find out what the point of the demo was, not to put down Barry Lee. I looked at the pictures myself and they dont show anything but a bunch of guys pushing on each other and against Barry standing against a wall. I have to admit I was as confused as Peter was but I think the problem is context. There was no descritpion of what he was doing, just a picture and an exclamation of some thing he does.
Vingtsunstudent, Your description was good, its all I needed to hear. With him just apparently standing there in the picture I figured maybe it was some sort of dan tien thing but what you say makes sense now.
As sihing73 says, I dont think this needs to get out of hand. People are so jumpy on this board and get all excited about something that seems lie a slight. I say if you have confidence in your sifu, dont worry about it, anyone who criticizes without experience doesnt have a leg to stand on.

[Peter Aarts]

Well said, thanks!


Peter.

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by red5angel
People are so jumpy on this board and get all excited about something that seems lie a slight.

I'm not sure with "lie a slight" means but if you mean people get excited easily here, I'd say that includes the moderator if he deletes something first then considers its offensiveness later.

[vingtsunstudent]

ok peter
i may be wrong in doing this as i feel you are trying to diguise your actual intensions but if my feelings are incorrect & you are being honest about your questions then i am sorry.
vts

[red5angel]

AD - :p My typing isn't always the best, usually I type in a hurry! Like is the word it is supposed ot be!

Vingtsunstudent - Well met. I am not sure what Peters real intentions are either but he seemed pretty sincere. If I am wrong, I apologize.

[Peter Aarts]

Apologies accepted. I was sincere about this!

Cheers,

Peter.

[vingtsunstudent]

if you were sincere, then let me just clarify that it was not an application(as i think you put it) from biu gee but a principle(there are differences).
the one being used if memory serves is using one hand under the other as oppossed to your strikes & movements always going over the top of each other so as not be trapped, i hope that made some sense.
vts

[red5angel]

So, VTS, if I understand correctly, he stands against the wall with people pushing on him, and then uses his hip/waist power to get out?

[Peter Aarts]

As he is a moderator he felt obliged to reply to my thread. Sihing73 just browsed it and then it was (suddenly) removed or deleted.

???

*******Good question and valid pointing out of a possible coincidence. I already replied to your earlier post. I stand by that. You should know that I will take responsibility for my actions. To be honest I do not have the time to get into a broad based discussion about you and I. What you feel or believe neither makes it true nor false. It is simply your perspective. If you look at my approach I normally will post something asking people to stop and get back on track. I don't USUALLY just delete things without an explanation. If I deleted or closed your post I would simply tell you so. But believe what you will, you are free to do so. BTW: Have you asked Alan about me? He knows me quite well and can tell you in detail the type of person I am. You could ask him if I would simply delete something out of spite etc. In any event this serves us no purpose going back and forth. As I said belive what you wish. Peace, Dave********


Peter.

[vingtsunstudent]

red5angel
basically, yes
as i mentioned the use of the other hand does come into play but it is mainly done with waist.
it is just skill that can be learnt by anyone(with practice of course:))
try this, get someone to pin your arm against & across your body(your back, head & feet all against the wall) now with the free arm go from underneath and push foward with elbow force in an upside down tan sao(forget the excact name at the moment) & simultaneously pivot to the side of the free hand.
you should be able to diserpate there on coming force not with strenght but with correct body machanics & sheering foward across there there foward strenght rather than greeting it.
again i hope i have put that into some form of the english laungauge that is understandable.
vts

[red5angel]

VTS, excellent! Definitely something I will be trying here in the near future! It makes much sense.

Peter & AD - You guys are dumb! Just kidding :p ! I thought I would see how far I could push it before this string gets removed.
In all seriousness though I think what Sihing73 said was that he browsed the string and although he saw the potential for problems hadnt deleted it.

[red5angel]

LOL!@AD!

:eek: wow they deleted AD's post!!!!!

[vingtsunstudent]

seems to work fine alpha.
by the way that was very direct & efficient, quality wing chun:D
and i have now witnessed your perfection;)

red5angel
have fun:cool:

vts

[Peter Aarts]

Please take it easy...
I believe what you say (3, no 4 times).
I believe in coincidence. You codemned me by one!

Peter.

BTW. I´ll see Alan next month. I´ll ask him.

[Alpha Dog]

and I yours

[vingtsunstudent]

peter
just so i can keep up with this thread keep up?
who is alan & what will you be asking him.
vts

[Peter Aarts]

Please reread my posts to Alpha Dog and my first one on page 2 . Sihing73 edited these posts and replied.

Peter.

[Sihing73]

Hi VTS,

The Alan being referred to is Alan Fong.

Alan Fong is listed as my Sifu, in addition to Keith Kernsprecht, on my Primary Level Certificate in the old WT system.

When I returned to the US from Germany I had the privilige of training with Alan. We became pretty close and I ended up accepting a job in NYC and moving in to live with him and his family for quite a while. He was the student Leung Ting took with him when he introduced WT to Europe.

Alan and I both broke from the WT system some time ago and went our seperate ways. We have communicated from time to time but mostly lost touch. Anyhow, Alan has apparently become affiliated with Peters Sifu.

Peter and I have exchanged e-mails and PM's relating to Alan. My reference in these posts was simply that Alan knows me quite well. He is a good judge of both my character and at least my level in WT when I left the system ten years ago.

No big deal I just figured Peter could get a better idea of the type of person I am, or at least was, when Alan knew me. Then he could better judge my motivation for some of my actions. To see if I am petty or not. Of course, I am quite petty and always right :D oh wait a minute I think that's the wife ;)

Anyhow this is all the reference to Alan was about and perhaps I should have left it out of the Public eye.

Peace,

Dave

[Alpha Dog]

With all due respect to your moderating holiness:

a) who the hell cares what kind of a person you are (ie what does that have to do with Wing Chun)? and

b) why do you waste so much time and energy worrying about how you are perceived in public (again, what is the relevance w/rt to Wing Chun)?

Set up a website shrine to yourself if you like, it's a free country and it won't strain your back any more than being out here telling everyone else how to be a good little Wing Chun soldier.

[sunkuen]

When did you add the "Body Slam" to your Wing Chun!!! Take it easy, poor dave has a bad back right now!!!

[Sihing73]

Hi Alpha dog,

Sorry did not mean to challenge the top dog position.

What others care or don't care about me is less important than you think. The post was in reply to a question asked. I answered it. Perhaps I should have left it in private but hey if others can do why not I :D

I would like for you to show me one post where I TOLD anyone how to do their Wing Chun. If you feel I am trying to push my approach down anyones throat then you are mistaken. Of course, sometimes a different view can be upsetting.

As to spending energy trying to be perceived in any specific way in public; well, I speak my mind, admit when I am wrong, alhtough some would disagree with that, and stick to my perceptions. While I would rather have friends than enemies it is the other person who usually makes that choice.

Setting up a website-maybe some day but there are already plenty of good ones out there. I can assure you that I am a small speck in life and doubtless touch few. However, it is nice to know that you have taken such an interest in me and my "perceptions".

I guess I'll sum up my feelings with this story:
While I was a State Trooper I stopped a motorist for an infraction. They were naturally upset. They yelled and screamed and told me how much they hated me. They told me that when they got home at night they would still hate me and maybe even pray for some evil to come my way. I replied that if that made them feel better that was fine and good. However when I got back in my cruiser and drove away I would not give them a second thought. Seems like wasted energy to me :p

Sunkuen,

I have had a "bad back" for a number of years now. It has hardly slowed me down until just lately. I also fully anticipate both a speedy and fully recovery so I would not be too worried but thanks for caring.

Peace,

Dave

[Alpha Dog]

What others think about you couldn't be less important to me. Furthermore, I never said you tried to push your "version" of WC on anyone, Dave, I said most of the time you talk about everything BUT WC and usually yourself. Don't ask me to go find examples because I will be busy cutting and pasting all day! And I am not upset, just bored to death.

Was it during your days as a trooper that you developed this opaque veil of holier-than-thou-ism, or do the roots go deeper?

Why don't you kick back, put your feet up, and tell me about your relationship with your father, Dave? There. you have your audience now, don't be afraid to use it.

[red5angel]

I think in defense of Sihing73, he is challenged often on his decisions as a moderator. If you take the time to get to know the guy he is a nice guy and pretty fair. His job is subjective, he as a moderator has to decide what is or is not allowed. That means that no matter what decision he makes, someone isnt going to like it.
being challenged a lot can start to feel personal, maybe that is why he feels he needs to open up and let us know what he is about? I feel better knowing who I talk to then not knowing.
Sort o flike, if you meet someone on the street and you find you have something to talk about in common, often times you will introduce yourselves. If you continue to talk as time goes on you at some point will talk about who you are. This gives others a base to relate to you from.

[Peter Aarts]

Quote from Sihing73

To be honest I do not have the time to get into a broad based discussion about you and I.
It´s just you I think!;)


Peter.