Lineage

[Alpha Dog]

To what extent does lineage play a role in your overall assessment of your Wing Chun abilities?

[gnugear]

I pay more attention to the ability of the instructors/students, rather than who they are ... of course it doesn't hurt that it also happens to be the result of a strong lineage :)

[burnsypoo]

looking for a common thread in your family's wck.

Squint your eyes to see the similarities. Staring too hard can forfeit perspective.
-BP-

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by gnugear
I pay more attention to the ability of the instructors/students, rather than who they are ... of course it doesn't hurt that it also happens to be the result of a strong lineage :)

what is a strong lineage? is there more than one?

[reneritchie]

AD- IMHO, lineage gives a sense of potential and measure (realization is still dependant on the individual).

Rgds,

RR

[Alpha Dog]

Is a long lineage better than a short one?

[Alpha Dog]

Is watering down inevitable? what then?

[red5angel]

AD - what is your definition of watering down? Mine is explained in the "spamming" thread. but broken down, watering down is done by people teaching an art that shouldnt be because they have not finished the system and reached a point where they are capable of teaching it thoroughly.
If we were to go by that definition, I would so no it is not inevitable but it happens.

[Peter Aarts]

A longer lineage will automaticly result in more bias during information exchange between student and teacher.

[dezhen2001]

what's your reasoning behind that?

david

[Peter Aarts]

I assume you meant me?

In this case: The more people in your lineage, the more genuine information is getting lost. Cause people can´t exactly copy their teacher´s knowledge (human nature). Especially when you´re being tought by your sihing, who´s being tought by his sihing, who´s being tought by his sifu, who´s being tought by the master of your lineage. It´s better to loose a couple of chains, f.e.: You are being tought by your sifu who´s being tought by the master.

[red5angel]

Peter, sounds like you are talking about the 'pass it on' game? this is where you stand in a circle and whisper something in the persons ear next to you. They do the same and on until it comes around the circle and back to you, it rarely comes back the way it left! Things tend to get filtered through our experience and our views.

[Alpha Dog]

In the 70's, US automakers had to rethink car designs dramatically to meet new realities (higher fuel costs, increasing overseas competition, among others) and the result was a radical change in the concept of automobile. 'Better' or 'worse' are subjective interpretations of how pragmatism drives change in the world.

If you were to build your dream car right now, would it look like the ones you see on the road today?

[fa_jing]

To what extent does lineage play a role in your overall assessment of your Wing Chun abilities?

Answer: none whatsoever. I don't even care if what I'm learning is Wing Chun or not. As long as I can make it work for me. That kind of knowledge is only of use to me to pass the information along to someone who actually cares.

-FJ

[anerlich]

The more people in your lineage, the more genuine information is getting lost.

I can't really go for that. That assumes that there is an "original" Wing Chun, which Ng Mui and the other four Temple Elders got handed to them from the Gods, or somewhere, and that everyone in between has lost bits successively.

If Wing Chun is a science, then it should benefit from the input of everyone learning and pratcising it. Everyone has a unique perspective and something to give. IMO if WC is secret knowledge that someone else has to give you and that a sufficiently dedicated person could not work out for himself from basic principles, deduction and experimentation, then we are all doomed to mediocrity and might as well give up now. If you think that all you have to do is follow a Sifu and digest his knowledge, and not work things out for yourself and prove to yourself that what you are being told works in the real world, IMO your chances of becoming a superior practitioner are close to zero.

Most Sifus get their si-hings to teach. This allows the si-hing to gain teaching experience and allows the sifu freedom to explore the art and to take it to more people. Organisational and heirarchical structures are used on all aspects of human endeavour because they work, and KF is no different. Also, become a "master" does not guarantee that one becomes a good teacher or coach - often it is the case that an individual of lesser fighting skill will make a better teacher.

It is true that a student who has been training only a few weeks more than you is unlikely to be able to instruct you competently, but that shouldn't happen in a hlaf-decent school. The si-hing should only be teching when the Sifu feels he/she is ready and it is good for him as well as the student.

IMO the true greats of WC have (and will) take what they have been given and pass on MORE, not less, than they have been given to their students.

[Sabu]

Originally posted by fa_jing
I don't even care if what I'm learning is Wing Chun or not. As long as I can make it work for me. Just a question... How do you know whether you should call it Wing Chun or not?