Cung Le

[yutyeesam]

I heard the Cung Le did traditional Kung-Fu before he devoted himself to San Shou. What Kung-Fu system did he do?

[Suntzu]

traditional vietnamese kung fu, TKD and some wrestling…. That’s all I know…

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Is Cung Le Vietnamese?

I thought he was from Hong kong.

[@PLUGO]

I think he did some TKD as a kid too..

[Mister Hansome]

He's 100% vietnamese. He came from saigon because of the war when we was very young. As you can tell his last name is Le, not Lee. This may not seem to be a big difference in english, but in vietnamese its a huge difference, and they have no relation. The translation is not the same. But, eh, who would have known if they weren't vietnamese. Chinese people have enough chinese names to worry about, so i doubt they would keep account of little differences like that in their mind (talking about the average man here).

And yes you can be 100% vietnamese. China came about from the combining of the 7 states (i think), vietnam was not part of that. Han ethnic came about from the Han dynasty which was considered the golden age of chinese history, this was when they decided to give themself a identity. And yes vietnam was not part of this either. Historical evidence shows that we are decendents of the Yueh and the Dong Son Culture, the Yueh were never assimilated thus not making them chinese (going as far as 200 bc before there was a china, and they were decended from the pre-dong son who are found to be 2000bc, their culture changed like architecture so they became the dong son). China then invaded vietnam, back then called Lac Viet that was when we established our own identity calling ourselves the kinh, which today are the majority ethnic group in vietnam. Hey we were peaceful, but then we started to war against the chinese, having approximately 20 wars in 2000 years. What a battered nation, involved in three wars in a century (vietnam war, indochinese war, second indochinese war, the indochinese wars were big, american supplied 1 billion dollars US every month to the French to beat the vietnamese, it's amazing the vietnamese won). And there is no common sense to call vietnamese, chinese when we already have our identity, like when the mongols conquered china, the chinese had their identity so they cannot be mongols unless they want to which is then a different matter.
........................................

Here's a post from someone from a different forum concerning culture


Originally posted by karaokegod from asianavenue

Well

The viets never broke off though, they were the Dong Son who were invaded by the chinese. I can see that the japanese came from the chinese or korean because the original inhabitants of japan weren`t the japanese today, and there is evidence that they came in after the chinese had their identity being more of a branch of the han than a separate branch like a brother branch. The vietnamese weren`t even considered chinese even to the ancient chinese through cultural differences, but the influence grew stronger, and now we`re very alike but we didn`t break off. You didn`t read the first page did you? It explains why we weren`t chinese. The people who started it weren`t chinese, they were mongoloids (no not mongols, just a name for yellow asians), they are not chinese, but the chinese are them, it`s like revolutionaries and communists, communists are revolutionaries, but revolutionaries aren`t communist. The mongoloid tribe broke off, some went to northern vietnam while alot stayed in china and started to spread out to areas like japan and korea. The ones who stayed in china weren`t chinese then, the term chinese was used when china was a whole and the cultures of the 7 states were mixed, vietnam wasn`t part of that mix thus they cannot be chinese. Han was a term they gave themselves when the Han emperor was in rule, vietnam wasn`t part of that either, we gave ourself a different name, viet. We could be related through the mongoloid tribe but how did a branch become the tree? Think of the mongoloids as a tree which gave birth to a whole bunch of branches (Han or chinese, viets or kinh, korean, or japanese.). The Han and Kinh are children of the mongoloids, thus we are brothers, how then did the chinese suddenly became the father (or tree) they cold give birth to leaves (branches that grew off them, like the cantonese or the manderin, yeah i know they`re languages but i can`t think of an ethnic right now) but still they cannot be the tree. The vietnamese lived along side the chinese and was never assimilated until after the vietnamese named themselves and the chinese named themselves so we already had an identity. The vietnamese are believed to be the Dong Son or the Yueh, but the Yueh were never assimilated they moved south and avoided the assimilation so they were never part of the chinese civilization.

I posted this somewhere else but it`s relevent to this subject
Because 2k years ago, when we warred with the chinese and lost they tried to assimilate us, our culture was different, we were lighter and brighter, with toes a bit different than theirs. Our toes were more spread apart, and more movable, they blamed losing to us numerous time while being outnumbered and having few weapons on this. They say that we had an advantage, and our toes makes us run faster, stronger and have more endurances, while they were the ones with the advantage, with the fact that they have always outnumbered us in military (the one they sent), in weapons and it`s advancement. Even after decades of attempted assimilation, we never married them and had offspring, not unless it`s a rape. They saw us as primitive, they hated our bright and light skin color, they hated our toes, they hated our culture. They didn`t want to tante their pure Han blood, and didn`t want a mix for a son/daughter. We in return always thought they were stupid, weak, ignorant, and fools (a result of hatred, not necessarily true, and probably not, just telling you what they thought). We in turn didn`t want to incorporate that in our blood, it was forbidden to marry chinese, and forbidden to marry cham (related to khmer but not them). It was low for a chinese man/women to marry a vietnamese (kinh, the ones originating from the ancient dong-son culture, and they in turn came from the ancient dong-son culture, this culture is traced to 3000 bc, some say to be even ****her than the chiense, extremely peaceful nation, then the chinese invaded making us fight). So not many intermarried, and those who did, were shut out of the vietnamese community, and those who did in the chinese community lost face and dignity. Only after the 1900`s did they started to marry the chinese, and it happened at a CRAZY rate. They were then accepted after centuries of living in the south (the chinese were afraid of living in the north, and in the central or southeast, as even now they still hate chinese.) Now so many viets are part chinese people tend to think it happened milleniums ago, but for a fact only 30% of the kinh are even part chinese or anything else, the other 70% of them are pure kinh, that`s why you see so many light skinned and bright, but living in the middle between the tropic of cancer and equator kind of makes you dark. But when my uncle came from vietnam i thought he was cambodian, but after two months we became REALLY light, almost like a white guy, and bright too. And the kinh make up 90% of the vietnamese population. There`s 3% chinese (not of any vietnamese blood) comming during the minh period. Those statistics were taken before the war, by the emperor Bao Dai, he was curious, and demanded everyone to examine there books till the end usually reaching a max of 1900, and it turned out that there were only 70% of the kinhs to be pure, and there were 30% of a mix. The kinh at the time made up 890% of the nations population. Everyone in vietnam keeps a lineage book, kept by the head of the family (under him can be thousands of people), my dad would have been the head, but the war came and he left, now his brother keeps it.


Smart guy, young though, he's like 15 years old, like me. :)

Oh just an fyi (for your information), you know because someone might just say something ignorant like,"what's the diff? aren't they the same?" I don't like that.

[Mister Hansome]

I don't know how movable our feets are but i do see some more space between the toes. My toes are weird. My skin is bright and light, hey in north america it's nice to have a tan, so it's a dissadvantage in the way that i need a tan sometimes. Hey some people think that the vietnamese are dark, but that's because of the south. Most people in the south have malay or khmer (cambodian) blood in them, or cham (later assimilated into our southern ethnic, many still are around though). Like the vietnamese in america and canada are darker, because usually the south would leave. It's also hard to not be dark when you usually live in california or something or in vietnam (between the equator and tropic of cancer). AHHH, why am i talking about this in a KF forum? Darn, nevermind, i just kept on babbling, sorry. Got to go back to the other forums so i can say stuff that makes sense to someone, eh.

Well bottom line, Cung Le is awesome.

[yutyeesam]

So what exactly is Vietnamese Kung-fu? I wasn't aware that there was a Vietnamese martial art. Does anyone know more about this?

thanks!
123

[LEGEND]

Most viet arts I've seen are just hybrid of chinese and some karate stuff. They don't claim to be original so it's nothing special.

[Suntzu]

"Oh just an fyi (for your information), you know because someone might just say something ignorant like,"what's the diff? aren't they the same?" I don't like that."

yeah, I hate that too…


dude… thanks for the history lesson… I didn't know half of that stuff…. 15 huh??… and is that toes thang for real????

[DragonzRage]

The fact of the matter is that Cung Le does not have any kung fu experience worth speaking of. He does say that he studied "vietnamese kung fu" for a couple yrs, but here are the facts: He was a wrestler, he was black belt in TKD and competed, and once he started down the kickboxing/san shou road he picked up some muay thai tools. He is not a kung fu guy.

[Ralek]

What style is the vietnamese kung fu? Kung fu isn't a style, right?

You can't name cung le's kung fu style cuase he doens't have one.

Kung fu is pathetic. A TKD black belt and wrestler dominates the kung fu guys at their own game of san shou. And san shou itself is not kung fu but just american kickboxign and wrestling.

[Mister Hansome]

Vietnamese kung fu mainly came from china thousands of years ago. The transfer was gradual, like having a student or two, and then the master would let them roam the world to learn on their own. And then vietnam and china started to war again, so they went home and the two sides didn't interact much, the vietnamese side evolving on its own and the chinese side still getting influences from turkey and such. That about it, vietnam does have some indigenous styles from the mountain peoples, but that a different matter. Today in vietnam, we they usually go for tae kwon do. There is actually very little karate influence, mostly kung fu. The first interaction the vietnamese had with the japanese were with their pirates, so we learned how to use farm tools to counter their swords. Mainly peaceful nation except for interaction with the chinese army, and then the french army. They usually don't even care about style, what's a style? A system to help you move better, or fight better, or have better health or etc... Learning a style would help, but that doesn't mean you can't fight if you don't.

Hey suntzu, yeah it seems to be a bit true. My toes are a bit weird, there is a bit more space in-between the toes, but as i said the chinese army probably brought it up to make it seem that they lost because we had an advantage. Well, c'mon, how can we have an advantage when we are the one always outnumbered by 3 in combat, when our weapons are outdated, and our armer is non-existant. They just pick up on the differences to try to justify things, everyone does that though.

[fa_jing]

well, there's a kwoon in Philly run by temple-trained master of Than Vo Dao, he calls it "7 mountain Spirit Fist" He was arrested during the vietnam war along with the monks but managed to escape. Anyway, this particular style looks awesome. The story, as far as I remember, is that Chinese Kung fu came down maybe 2 thousand years ago, spread through Burma, became influenced by Burmese religion, then crossed the 7 mountains into Vietnam. It originally was only based on Chinese Kung Fu but a lot of indigenous arts made there way in there too. At the highest, spirtual level of the art, supposedly you call one of 36 historical spirit warriors who you have chosen to guide you in battle. The stances and fist shapes clearly show the kung fu connection, but you can also see the uniqueness and other influences of the art.

There is a more common form of Vietnamese kung fu, also called Viet Vo Dao something or other. And there are more recent imports that came with Chinese immigration in this century.

Hey look, I got a website:
www.sevenmountainskungfu.com


-fj

[Ralek]

The truth is that Cung Le has 3 styles: Taekwondo, Wrestling, Muay thai

The TKD is very evident in his style which includes a lot of spinning back kicks, flying scissors, axe kicks, side kicks.

The wrestling is very evident. He is a supplexing machine. He rememinds me of Dan Severn in UFC #4.

The Muay thai is very evident. He actually throws the techniques.


There is no kung fu moves used in his fights(imagine that!). However he uses TKD, wrestling, muay thai like it's bread and butter.

Watch the fights. Then tell me otherwise. Is this the ultimate embarrasment for kung fu? A TKD black belt destroying traditional kung fu stylists?

[Stacey]

So what? Its kickboxing made by the prissy commie dancers to pretend that they still knew kung fu....well its not.

NHB is better for KF, or kua shu. The fact that you can't elbow is rediculous.


BTW Ralek, I can name every throw and kick he does with the kung fu name...he is doing kung fu...he has also picked up a lot of chinese techs.

[Ralek]

I can name every throw and take down he does in English:

Supplex
Double leg
High body lock
ankle pick
single leg

This is free style wrestling. And that is what he HAS and DOES train in.

His strikes can be named in Thai and Korean language. But i will use Enlish:

Side Kick
axe kick
push kick
Spinning back kick
spinning backfist
round house
front leg round house
flying scissors (TKD)
jab
cross
hook
straight punches


His hands are held up. This is muay thai. He does not block low kicks with his hands. Instead he does a leg check which allows him to keep his hands up by his head. This is muay thai.

You can IDENTIFY muay thai, TKD, and wrestling in his fights and it stands out like a bright red light. However i don't see any kung fu.

[Mister Hansome]

Why do you care so much? He uses muay thai, wrestling, and TKD. So? Why should you even care? The fact of the matter is that kung fu got him to his physical state, he started TKD late like 18 yrs of age or something. And that was also what he used. The thing is not the style, it's his skill, even when he first came into TKD he could kick a black belts ass (don't know maybe it was in a belt factory), and i think he did too. It's his skill not the style, no matter how good the style, if you have no skill then you have no skill. I can try to teach a dog intelligence but all i do is teach it tricks it do, over and over.

[Ralek]

Cung Le is the Kung fu destroyer. The champion of TKD.

TKD the real street lethal!!!!!!

[Shaolindynasty]

I remeber an article on Cung le where he said he wrestled in high school and college, trained some TKD, and grappled alittle with the gracies and is working at a boxing gym. He did do Veitnamese kungfu, he said one of the reasons he stopped is because he said he did allot of teaching for his teacher and didn't get any money. As for sanshou he trained allot with Shawn liu(former shaolin temple disciple). So I'd say he's got plenty of kungfu background.

[Zapf Dingbat]

ShaolinDynasty....... yeah I was just about to mention Shawn Liu... he's got pictures of Cung Le all over his school.



RALEK IS HAEVING A TKD ORGASM OMG SO HOT U'LL CUM YER PANTS

[Ralek]

Cung le is a BJJ, Wrestler, Muay thai, TKD man.

TKD is is main style. TKD is da big pimp daddy style. You saw Cung Le do his TKD flying scissors? TKD will bust a cap in yo ass.

[yutyeesam]

ummmm, where did the japanese get their martial arts from, and how did the koreans get their martial arts? Did they dream it up, or did it come from someplace? Where was the birthplace of all East Asian martial arts?

ANyways, does Cung Le do NHB stuff, or is he exclusively San Shou?

[Mister Hansome]

What makes Cung Le special is that he is a patron of the arts. He learns more than just one art, understands more then just one concept. He learnt TKD, Shan Shou, Wresling, Kung Fu and Shotokan (sp?). He doesn't say, "oh this is the best style, i learnt them all i should know" but instead says, "they all have their advantages, and they can work together to improve eachother." As i said, Cung Le is not, "the patron of shan shou" or "the patron of TKD" but he's a patron of the arts. He has the skills in him to learn almost any art and make it the art of a champion. You can try to teach a monkey kung fu, but will he learn? You can have the best style in the world, and have an unfitted student learn it and fail. Or have an average style, and have a sutable student learn it and succeed and excel on it's concepts. He's a martial artist to his own right, not because he learns TKD or Kung Fu. He has the skill in him to excel, you can put someone else through the type of traning Cung had went through, but will they work as hard? Or even try to understand the concepts and use physics to perfect moves like the scissor kick? They will just be like monkey's, "monkey see monkey do." They get manipulated by the style, and then they fail. Cung manipulates the style to work best for him and it succeeded. So ultimately what defines the ultimate style is the ultimate student. If a style is lucky enough to incorperate such a student that can enhance it's practice which can use it to his advantage.

[Iron Arahat]

I know that Cung has been training with Frank Shamrock, so I am sure that he has built up his NHB knowledge base. I do not believe that he has had any fights tho.

[LEGEND]

Cung Le isn't into NHB...he just trains in SAN SHOU...he doesn't do much or any ground work. His $$$ comes from running his skool and san shou.

[wushu chik]

Legend...you mean SCHOOLS....plural now...not singular....

[Face2Fist]

Is Cung Le, a real good fighter? is he the best in san shou? I m wondering because I never seen him fight anyone that can be consider a real competitor. I think all he's fought are tomato cans.

[red5angel]

.62

[Suntzu]

:rolleyes:

[Shaolinlueb]

everytime i have seen him fight it was a slob that looked like he caem form joe dirts neighborhood.

[Face2Fist]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
everytime i have seen him fight it was a slob that looked like he caem form joe dirts neighborhood.

besides Jason Yee, who else has he fought?

[Suntzu]

shonie carter.... the chinese dude Li M-somestuff.... medaled internationally....

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Face2Fist


besides Jason Yee, who else has he fought?



http://www.cungle.com/


:D

[red5angel]

uh oh face2face has finally caught on to Cung Le's scam! He hasn't actually fought anyone! Even the fight with Jason Yee he used body doubles.

[Suntzu]

:D @ body doubles...... kinda like Jet Li, huh?

oh........ and my bad the chinses dudes name is Nashun Gerile....

[ShaolinTiger00]

I'd love to see how you'd do against a "tomato can" like Scott Sheely.

[backbreaker]

My Muay Thai kry told me he is not that great. Another Muay thai kru tod me he knew some people who did Muay thai and san shou and muay thai was clearly better. My Muay thai kru has learned in thailand and from people like Matt Hume and Maurice smith, and he says Alex gong is the guy to emulate. He says it's kind of like the bob and weave boxing style; it'll only work if your name is Roy Jones of Muhammed ali, otherwise you gonna get eaten up

I don't beleive everything they say though because they say CMA will never be big in MMA like BJJ and Muay Thai

[Suntzu]

O_o

[SanShou Guru]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
I'd love to see how you'd do against a "tomato can" like Scott Sheely.

I beat him.

[Losttrak]

I think he is pretty good as San Shou. Certainly has the game down. If he hopes to make the jump to K1 or something of that sort he needs some more work. When he fought his K1 match he was seriously in danger of eating knees and kicks when he went down for his throws. If he were against a higher-caliber fighter, his predictability might have gotten him owned. Just my 2 cents.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I beat him.

My point exactly.

Josh is a very experienced accomplished san shou fighter/coach.

Scott wasn't a san shou "tomato can", Cung is just on another level. he's a world class fighter.

His only serious san shou competition will come from matches with international san shou champions. (King of Sanda etc.)

[lkfmdc]

Originally posted by backbreaker
My Muay Thai kry told me he is not that great. Another Muay thai kru tod me he knew some people who did Muay thai and san shou and muay thai was clearly better.


oh YAWN, did he tell you his daddy can beat up your daddy also? :rolleyes:

Quite a few San Shou people have impressive records against Muay Thai guys, even under THEIR rules.... Or look at the mixed matches between China and Thailand


Originally posted by backbreaker

My Muay thai kru has learned in thailand and from people like Matt Hume and Maurice smith, and he says Alex gong is the guy to emulate.

[/B]

No offense to the late Mr Gong, but he built a rep fighting US, never international level, fighters. He lost pretty badly to Master Toddy's guy, and should have lost to Bang. If your Kru says fight like Alex, well, I wonder what your Kru is thinking...


Originally posted by backbreaker

I don't beleive everything they say though because they say CMA will never be big in MMA like BJJ and Muay Thai [/B]

San Shou is the #3 program on the world's largest TV network

:rolleyes:

[Face2Fist]

san shou is the 3rd most watched tv program in the world because it shown in asia. china has over 2 billion people of course its going to be the most watched show in the world. but its not showed where it counts in the US. where money is made.


alex gong should left to rest. have some respect for the dead

[lkfmdc]

Muay Thai basicly has zero visability in mainstream America...

The UFC has consistently lost money if that is your criteria

[backbreaker]

:eek: I think there is something to what you say. But my trainers will just say they mostly like the japanese fights. K-1 and Pride, the japanese appreciate real fighting. They live in Canada. Also they say Duane Ludwig beat Alex Gong

[backbreaker]

Better to be into K-1 and Pride, than to be a BJJ nutrider

[Face2Fist]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Muay Thai basicly has zero visability in mainstream America...

The UFC has consistently lost money if that is your criteria

so does san shou, i never seen a san shou fight broadcasted.

as for UFC its due to bad promotion and marketing

[SanShou Guru]

ESPN or ESPN2 has shown some Cung Strikeforce matches as well as a few others but not much on that is for sure.

[norther practitioner]

UFC is banned so many places though, it is tough to draw crowds when you can only do it so many places..

plus the US is getting wussified...

They're trying to take fighting out of hockey
Look at boxing, that sucks now
etc

[red5angel]

Look at boxing, that sucks now

are they trying to take the fighting out of boxing too?!

[norther practitioner]

Yeah, they are going to start playing chess now instead...
Err, maybe some of the guys who've been punched too much will have to play checkers.

[red5angel]

are you trying to say that checkers ain't hard?

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by backbreaker
Better to be into K-1 and Pride, than to be a BJJ nutrider

definetly. some of the bjj guys look like they are dry humping each other. :eek:

[norther practitioner]

are you trying to say that checkers ain't hard?

This explains a lot.... :eek:

[rubthebuddha]

np -- leave red5 alone. hand-eye coordination is difficult for some of us. :D

[red5angel]

but hand to gland co-ordination I can do!

[norther practitioner]

more like hand to unit.. but thats for a different time.:p


no, no, the rabbit goes through the hole

geez, how many times do I have to tell you how to tie your shoe laces.

[DragonzRage]

"Better to be into K-1 and Pride, than to be a BJJ nutrider"

AMEN to that.

[GeneChing]

Keeping Sanda Alive. READ Anthony Le on Becoming a Second-Gen Champ (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1648) by Gene Ching

http://www.kungfumagazine.com//admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/images/ezine/2471_Anthony-Le_Lead.jpg