You be the judge.........

[SifuAbel]

You be the judge.....

Neil's answer on cyberkwoon.

Abel,
I don't have a problem with you doing what you think is right. If following me around the internet, ringing the old "watch out he's a sex offender" bell makes your day, then by all means do it. I hope it makes you feel good.
I do have a problem with you spreading lies. You are spouting facts you have gotten from second hand sources and from the Tulsa World of all things. The Tulsa World is a notoriously innacurate newspaper in this area. They are funded by the conservative right wing leaders in the area who also back the D.A. who prosecuted my case. If you truly are interested in the truth, contact me by e-mail, because I have no other wish to discuss this topic on this forum. I come here to discuss martial arts related topics. If you email I will provide you with court transcripts or whatever is necessary, even if it means getting you in contact with my prosecuting judge, to prove to you that I was proven innnocent beyond a doubt in the case of the 8 year old girl who was assaulted. I can also provide you with lie detector exam results by the local sex offense therapist that prove that I commited only one case of indecent exposure, but
pleaded guilty to two others for part of a plea bargaining with the D.A. for a reduction of sentence. If you truly are interested, e-mail me, but all of this is confidential info and I don't want you spreading it around the internet anymore.
In fact, I would appreciate it if you don't talk about me on the internet anymore. You too, Ffab. Please don't air my dirty laundry just because you think you have the power to do so. If either of you have any self respect and honor as martial artists you will consider my request that you drop all talk of me. So, Abel, if you ever want to continue this conversation again, e-mail me at cameron_joe@hotmail.com Otherwise, I will see you on the other forums in martial art and fighting related topics.
-TulsaWingChun.

[red_fists]

Pls, let it rest.

I guess by now ever member here has got the Message you wanted to get across initially.

[SifuAbel]

You mean let the alledged sex offender rest?

Only if he rests in your house. :rolleyes:

Just like TV brother, You don't like it switch the station.

[red_fists]

Oh, I can switch the Channel, but this still is a Kung Fu related Board.
Your recent Posts/Threads got nothing to do with Kung Fu or are even closely related.

People come here to discuss Kung Fu, not see someone go off on a personal vendetta/grudge.

Don't like it, change the Channel or turn the Volume down yourself.

[SifuAbel]

Gods, I can almost see the snot running down that whiney face of yours. Freaking puzzy.

[red_fists]

Let me put it this way.

When "Neal Cameron" gets on this Board again we can worry about him.
And I am sure that the KFO moderators will deal with him as they see fit.
Until than he is not a real KFO problem.

If he is on CK and you don't like it, take
it up with their Moderator/s, or leave CK.

If you wanna get him of the Net, go to the authorities and try your luck there.

Nuff said.

[scotty1]

I see what is happening here. As I write this, this thread has had 75 views, and only Red Fists has responded. Now, those people that viewed this thread MUST have had an opinion on the subject.
Why didn't they post? Who knows? But I suspect it has something to do with coming in for abuse from Abel's side if the viewpoint is not "drown Neal Cameron NOW!!"

However, Red Fists obviously doesn't care enough to reply, and it seems a little unfair that he is the only one doing that and copping all the flak for it.

Everybody else is obviously tired of this issue and can't be bothered to respond.

I agree with you Abel, but I also agree with Red Fist's last post.

You're fighting a losing battle. Everybody knows about Neal, everybody here, everyone on Cyberkwoon, but he's not going to be banned from CK (Fabb says so) so lets just write it off and get back to fighting talk, yeah?

If you want to keep it up send a mail to the Tulsa Police telling them that Neals on CK. If it is illegal, they'll do something about it.

BTW, I think everyone admires your upstanding citizenship.
Keep it up. But not on KFO :D

[red_fists]

Scotty1.

I do care, but have to say as well.

1.) NC is not on KFO and therefor what he does on CK has NO impact on me.
2.) I don't have the legal details of what NC can do or cannot do.
I also doubt SA and other Posters here have them.
3.) SA and other Posters here appear to be on a witch hunt and simply go from pre-conceived ideas based on experiences.
4.) I have full trust in the moderators of both CK and KFO to do the right things.
5.) I do not condemn People according to what other people on the Net tell me, unless they can provide 100% solid proof and postings on the Net are not that.
I am talking Police, court and other legal proofs & records.
Or even Computer trace logs
6.) Neither SA nor any of the other Posters here are moderators or any form of authority on CK or KFO and thus their Opinions are just that.

Just my view.

[internal mind]

he says he ONLY comes on to discuss martial arts dosn't mean he won't be tempted to "draw his weapon.":rolleyes:

[red_fists]

Who am I more likely to believe.
(Yep, I read the Thread started by SA on CK)

Ok, lets see SA and other come out guns blazing, stake ready to burn NC and the fire has been lit.
Claim that NC is barred from the Internet, but don't appear to have ANY proof of it, besides their own desire to see him banned.
But on the other Hand they seem to KNOW what really happened beyond what was prooven by the Justice System & Police.

Whereas, NC appears to be calm and willing to share "legal" information as to his conviction and legal proceedings.
Ffab, who is the owner and moderator of CK and who is willing to let NC talk MA as long as he behaves and "not draws his weapon". NC also doesn't try to hide his convictions and is open about what has happened.

Hmm, let's see. To be fair to everone .....

I believe neither side 100%.


But I elect SA for President. He seems to know everything and has the answers to all the problems.
:D

[Badger]

People who just let it rest, turn their head & ignore it because it doesnt effect them, Or their hearts are so FULL of forgiveness(BS) are the whole reason these scumbag SOBs keep doing this crap.


It because of these forgiving a-holes that these first time offensers go out & kidnap & murder.

We need to stand together, change laws, make sure that these sub-humans stay away from our children.


First time offense they should be executed.
They should not be given the chance to molest,kidnap & murder again.

SifuAbel, I am behind you 100%!

Badger

[Ryu]

Hey....was this an old post? :confused:
Is this new or was this posted a long time ago?

I'm losing my mind. :(


Ryu

[Budokan]

Neil Cameron says he's innocent. I guess that proves it, huh?:rolleyes:

Badger is right. Never let it rest. The only thing turning the other cheek gets you is slapped twice.

Never let it rest. Never.

[Budokan]

Then again, the phrase "turning the other cheek" means something else to Cameron than it does to most people....

[Sharky]

uh huh. " turn the other cheek and i'll break your fu.cking jaw "

[scotty1]

So what are we going to achieve writing about him on KFO?

Action needs to be taken in the real world. Surely we remember the real world?

And as far as I can see, if its not illegal for him to be on the forum, and he's serving his sentence and not breaking any conditions or laws, what can be done? Certainly nothing on KFO or CK.

[red_fists]

Scotty1.

You are preaching to deaf Ears.

As long as the guys can make themselves feel superior and stronger by talking about NC it won't stop.

Just my Opinion.

[Sharky]

Sifuabel: i don't really see what your aim is mate? What are you trying to achieve? Is it really achieveable?

[Badger]

Nope. I am even more out spoken about this BS in the "real world".

By keeping people aware there is a predator may save future victims.

I would like for more of us of like mind to get together & do more(legally of course) about this scum...not limited to Neal Cameron.

For those of you of unlike mind...to hell with you.



Badger

[GreyMystik]

i for one am tired of hearing about the f*cker. yeah let it rest. i don't care who i pi$$ off by saying that either. fine we've been warned, anyone who wants to hook up with this guy offline beware he has been busted for sh!t. thanks for doing the community a service. if you think justice has not been served, find out the facts for yourself and take care of it.
there, i've said my piece for anyone who cares

i don't care if some think i'm a pu$$y for speaking my mind either, i'll say what i want to say regardless of whether or not they think i'm some ideological stereotype they have in their narrow little closed minds.

[Badger]

If you are tired of hearing about it ..dont click on the thread.

If you give a rats ass....click.

If you are Neal Cameron, a pedophile, someone who abuses women,children or the elderly or a sympathizer of any of the above....you are a *****.

[scotty1]

"I would like for more of us of like mind to get together & do more(legally of course) about this scum...not limited to Neal Cameron."

Well go do it then, nobody is sympathising with child molesters etc. That is not what we're saying. We're saying that KFO is not the place to do it.

NOTHING is going to get done by *****ing about it on this thread.

If you're going to do domething, go do it for christ's sake!

There must be forums and discussion groups set up for this sort of thing.

[GreyMystik]

that would be a reasonable request (if you're tired of hearing about it don't click on the thread) IF we had a clue what the thread was about before we clicked on it. i don't want to have to relegate all of sifu abel's threads to automatically link to NC, i.e. "ok let's see what's on the forum today... oh look, it's sifu abel, his thread must be about neal cameron so i won't even click... next..." etc etc...you get the idea, because sometimes i enjoy and learn from what sifu abel has to say, just as the same applies to you. but since it says 'you be the judge', i'm gonna see what sifu abel wants me to be the judge OF, so i don't think it's really fair to say 'if you don't wanna hear it don't click on it' if it's labeled as such. i'm not saying sifu abel (or anyone else for that matter) should have to label their threads as "Neal Cameron" related or whatnot, but let's be realistic here. i'm gonna click on it to see what it says, if it's a vague topic like 'you be the judge'. if it's "neal is up to his old sh1te again", i'd probably avoid it...

[diego]

Its turn the other cheek and ill break your ****ing chin!
Who does that line?.

[SifuAbel]

Those of you that want this to rest are being rather selfish. This isn't about me or about getting neal out of the internet. This is about calling attention to a threat to the unsuspecting. KFO is not a fortress, there is no such thing as a "KFO problem". Those that come here can go anywhere else with a mouse click. My aim, as sharky asked, is to make as big a stink as I can so people can at least take a heads up and know that their buddy neil might be setting them up for something other than some freindly sparring.
Apparently, I have to do this periodically because people think
"oh, It could never happen to me , so it could never happen to anyone else, so it doesn't matter. I won't tell people, Hey BTW watch your children around niel. I'll let you find out for yourself. Hopefully nothing will happen because he says he's changed."

That kind of self absorbed arrogance lets history repeat itself over and over again. At the very least it teaches people not to be so gullible. It makes people think twice before devulging personal information. It makes people be more aware of the potential of an ulterior motive, a darker motive. There is evil out there and people fall prey to it mainly out of ignorance. Do you want to contribute to ignorance?

[Xebsball]

You guys...

Fist thing, i know he is guilty for indecent exposure or something, but to call him a raper (that rapes people, not rap) withouth proof is wrong. As a mather of fact HE could sue you for that if he wanted.

Should one belive him when he says he is inocent?
Well the law is clear:
"No man is guilty until proven guilty"
If you can back up your statements fine, if not there is no point.

If the law allows him to use the net and he is not breaking the rules of the forum, then there is no reason why he should be banned. Or, if in case he is breaking the rules of the forum its the mods that decide if he stays of not.

[Xebsball]

And one last thing...

And if the law wanted that Fabb kicked Neal out of CK?
How would that work?
I dont know where the site is curently hosted, but Fabb is french, he has got nothing to do with american law. Diferent countries have diferent laws. I would be just a matter of choice for Fabb.
If the law wanted him to stop posting the on the forums, they should ban him from using computers then.

[ratman201]

First,
that line is from Wu Tang Clan's "Protect your Neck"

Second,
if you don't let our justice system work the way it is supposed to, and do not take efforts to work within the system then you are undermining the very basis of our society(I'm not saying its perfect but atleast here elections change lawmakers, not the other way around). Or maybe Badger and Abel can start an angry lynch mob and the can prosecute all the criminals across ther US.

Or maybe Badger and Abel should go to law school and become lawyers or judges.

Or go to the Police academy and become, well police.

Or maybe you should got to the store and buy capes and run around fighting crime with you Kung Fu skills.

Or maybe if you really care about it (all sarcasm aside) you could read up on the Psychological, social and physiological therories behind sex crimes. Maybe you could do help aliveate this problem by attacking the cause. Maybe you could help convicted sex offenders become valuable members of society again.

Or maybe you could harass a man for the rest of his life.

Did you care about the sex offender problem before NC?

Is this more due to the fact that he percivably brings a stigma to other MA?

I all honesty I don't care what he did. Whether he did it or not. Or any of you ****ing *******es that post **** that has nothing to do with this ****ing board (yeah I cursing without any ***gont ass *****s, so kick me off I'm heated now).
If you want to make a difference in you community take an enlightened procative stance, to the reactionary one. I for one don't care. Start a thread about Kung Fu.

[SifuAbel]

It would never hold up in court. We could just say alledged rapeist and that would be enough coverage. What you don't understand is that some people have long memories and they remember the sick twisted things he said about kiddie porn , stalikng girls and so on. You might not know, but some people do. I would think that it would be in your best interest to be informed by those in the know. This isn't being done simply because there was a single news clipping, far from it.

Anyway, he is mostly being called a sick freak. That you can't be sued for, it's an opinion. You can't be sued for an opinion.

[Sharky]

"that line is from Wu Tang Clan's "Protect your Neck" "

yeah it's rza.

[SifuAbel]

Or maybe you can go to he LL.

Oh geez, just sit back and let the police handle the guy thats robbing your house or killing you in your sleep. Not to worry somebody else will take of it, all I have to do is wait and hope I don't die.

That is possibly the laziest,most assinine thing, I have evey heard.

[diego]

he was kicked off by the kfo admin, and put out a notice, they were ordered to ban him, this was two years ago, about two months before i signed up.
i browsed this forum for about a year off and on before signing up, what i get is he was a major troll, then the kfo ban, the initial firestorm, and that was that. except for the constant barrage of new trolls, who were scrutinized as the one banned. all that ended 9-11, then the troll brigade formed,:D and they were prosperous" WE DONT NEED ANOTHER HERO-????"

NOW ITS TWO YEARS LATER, and im going to watch madmax beyond thunderdome.

[ratman201]

I would like to add that I am not trying to take a up a hostile stance toward Badger and Abel, far from it. I commend their concern for thier community(if it is genuine). I just think that thier solutions are a bit misguided. Though I think we can all learn a valuable lesson in social responsbilty from this situation.

[Xebsball]

BTW, im sorry i mispelled Ffabs name on my previous post :D

[ratman201]

I didn't say let the police take care of it I said become a cop.
If you don't help fight a problem before it arises them you guilty of the same laziness. I really think that firy reactionary anger can be put to better use though prevention and rehabilatation than mudslinging and punishment. I have more to say but I don't want to perpetuate this thread. Email me if you want to discuss this issue further. Meanwhile start a thread CMA.

[fightfan]

My .02,
That fat ******* Neal should be thankful that hes on the net at all and not behind bars getting manhandled. If it happened to any one of your families I can guarantee some would be singing a different tune.
I dont condone lowering ones self to his level (criminal) but to simply discuss or warn peaple on the danger of socializing with that scum should be OK.
On the other hand I could care less unless hes back on this forum or in my hood.

[ewallace]

Maybe you could help convicted sex offenders become valuable members of society again.
Mulch is very valuable to society. It helps trees grow so we can breath nice fresh SAFE oxygen. I'd love to help.

Having a very young daughter myself, I wouldn't want to take the chance to see whether or not they have rehabed. Have you ever done community service because you got arrested? I sure as hell didn't do it to help out the community. I did it to keep my ass outta jail. Same with convicted sex offenders. Most go thru jail and counciling because they HAVE TO. Maybe they have turned over a new leaf. As far as I'm concerned that leaf had better fall on a lawn real ****ing far from me and my family. And this thread is about marital arts. Most of us want to try out all of our 'devastating' techniques on these freakazoids.

[ratman201]

I would like to apologize for the vular language in my first post in this thread. I'm having a bad day here at work.

Here are a few points I would like to make.

I have done community service both because I voluteered and because I didn't want to get arrested.
I've build playgrounds because I wanted to help my community
I've also buffed graffiti off walls because I put it there
What do I do now. I work for a non profit that funds educational programs for area schools.

I honestly don't know if counciling would help, but doctors try to find the causes cancer the don't just say **** it and grab a scalple right away.

Abel I'm sorry I jumped in and got heated so fast I understand that people have long memories and how events like these can effect peoples lives. Maybe this city has desensitized me to so **** that I sould be more sensitive to. The reason I take such a strong stance on personal privacy is because in most of the places that I chill in you spread info like that about someone they will problely get put in the hospital in a week if not in the ground. The other reason is I've seen may homeless and obviousley metally ill individual on the street in Philly that shouldn't be, doing things that might get them put away for the rest of thier lives anywhere else, who atleast competent when they are taking thier meds, however many of the facilities used to treat the people have been closed due to lack of funding. Your right I don't know where I would stand on the subject I it happened to my family.

[red_fists]

Originally posted by fightfan
I dont condone lowering ones self to his level (criminal) but to simply discuss or warn peaple on the danger of socializing with that scum should be OK.

I am with you, but I think the discussion gets easily out off-hand.

As for warning about him, I am all for that and I am thankful for SA to do so, But this takes 1 Post and 1 Mail to the Mods to do so. Not this long tirade and multiple threads.

Something like:

Subject:
"OT: Beware of this Individual"
Post:
" Neal Camreon a convicted sex offender(suspected Child molester) is posting on CK and might re-appear here on KFO. Be on the watchout.
For more Info pm me."

Would have been more than sufficient and not caused bad feelings.

Just my Opinion.

[DelicateSound]

Statements:

1) I agree with SifuAbel, paedophiles and rapists deserve to have their genitalia removed with concentrated hydrochloric acid.

2) Redfists is right, other means of action would be more useful [although it is right to keep the community informed]

3) Ewallaces new abvatar is pretty groovy. [on a lighter note]

4) Newcastle Brown Ale is overpriced.