1000 punches

[IronFist]

Sphynx said:

and whoever was the one who said they do 1000 puches a day. thanks alot...my shoulders are useless now.

Sharky replied:

1000 punches isn't that much.

Excuse me? How long is it supposed to take to get to 1000/day? Is that 1000 in a row, as fast as you can chain punches? That's gotta take like 20 minutes. I can do like 100 and then my shoulders die.

IronFist

[sphynx]

EXACTLY!!!
i only meant that i tried.
i cant even come close to 1000. i get to 150 or so then my shoulders are useless. it hurts to drink! i count 100-150 each hand alternating between the air and the wall bag every 50. eventually i may be able to do 1000, but 1000 each hand is another matter. right now they are not " as fast as i can chain punches". they are not slow, but certainly not full speed. im on my second month of training, so i focus more on technique right now.

hurts like hell doesn't it IronFist?;)

[Armin]

Hi,

if you punch 60 times per second, it'll take about, ahm, less then 18 minutes, right? So, what's the problem? I perform half an hour per day!

And if you do them WT-like, 5 totally relaxed per second, you'll be done very quick (that's e. g. for speed).


Armin.

[IronFist]

sphynx said only meant that i tried.
i cant even come close to 1000. i get to 150 or so then my shoulders are useless. it hurts to drink!

Yeah, I got to like 100 and I was like "I know where this is going" so I stopped.

I don't think I've ever counted to 1000 before all the way.

btw, I will buy dinner (under $20 cuz I'm poor) for the person who shows me that they can punch with force with no shoulder muscle involvement. It will work like this. I will put my hand on your anterior deltoid and then you punch and if I feel it contract you lose. You have to be lean enough that I can feel and find the anterior deltoid.

IronFist

[anerlich]

Some of my training buds and I did 1000 kicks in under 28 minutes once, so 1000 punches ain't going to take that long.

And it ain't like we were going for a world record or anything.

[sphynx]

whoa whao,

go back a step, someone said that no shoulder muscles are used during a punch? i musta slept through one of my anatomy/physiology and kinesiology classes again:D

[PHILBERT]

My FIRST night of training in Wing Chun, we did something like...well here is how it goes.

Each person counts to 10 and when ya say a number, you throw 10 punches before the next number is said, so each person who counts to 10 has everyone throw 100 punches. My first night, we threw...900, give or take a few (we did 2 sets). Each time I train (with the exception of last night, we had a guest), we throw about 500 punches as a warm up.

One guy said when he started training there, the first night they did 30 minutes straight of chain punches. I can throw 1000 in no time. Not super fast, but not slow either. It takes me about 15-20 seconds to throw 100 without trying. When I throw super fast, I usually burn myself out.

[sunkuen]

You should be able to throw out a thousand with ease (no B.S.). Start with single punches then move on to double punches as you get warmed up then move on to triples. btw the target should be 5000 not 1000. Everybodys shoulders move while punching just keep it to a minimum.

[gnugear]

Originally posted by IronFist
Sphynx said:

and whoever was the one who said they do 1000 puches a day. thanks alot...my shoulders are useless now.

Sharky replied:

1000 punches isn't that much.

Excuse me? How long is it supposed to take to get to 1000/day? Is that 1000 in a row, as fast as you can chain punches? That's gotta take like 20 minutes. I can do like 100 and then my shoulders die.

IronFist

Maybe you're trying to punch too hard? When we use the sand bag, we don't try to destroy it.

[IronFist]

Sandbag???

Dude, I thought we were talking about 1000 air punches. Wallbag punches are way easier than air punches. I've been doing two sets of 50 every day on the wallbag and it's easy. Two sets of 50 in the air burns my shoulders.

So what are we talking, 1000 sandbag or air punches?

btw, if someone told me to throw 900 air punches on my first night of class I'd say only if you can deadlift more than me.

IronFist

[CLOUD ONE]

'' Two sets of 50 in the air burns my shoulders. ''

So you're not going to die or are you?

Do this for every day and the shoulders will relax after a week!!!

Also take some Iron out of those fists, the hand is relaxed so the rest of the arm should be relaxed!!!

[straight blast]

Yep...the 1000 punches thing. I have no idea how many I've thrown in class in one sitting, but the best that I've ever done was throwing as fast a possible (while still keeping form) air punches for 10 minutes straight. And I honestly felt like I could do more. If you slowed down the instructors jumped on you.

I will admit though that that was one of those nights where everything I did just seemed to work perfectly. :) Normally I'm screwed after five minutes.

Tip: Don't ever stop while doing it, not even for a two second deltoid stretch. For me once I stop for a millisecond I start to fatigue and cramp up like nothing else.

[red5angel]

Hey guys, you wonit be ablet o throw 1000 punches in a row right away. Split it up into sets much like you would do weight lifting, I started by doing 200 at a time with about a minute rest between them. It takes a week or two for your shoulders to really relax.
Here is the key as I see it, dont try to use much force, maintain and concentrate on your structure. Do them slowly, who cares about the time it takes, thats not the point. Do them slowly with intent, against a bag or in the air whatever you have at the moment.
The key is to use your elbows to drive the punch, dont think about your shoulders, think about your elbows. Even though when you punch your shoulder is going to tighten the only joint you should be working on moving your hands with is the elbow. Also, in my lineage, we keep our elbows as close to the centerline as possible, you wanna talk about shoulder pain!!!!!

[tiger_1]

my friend IFONFIST whan some wingchunger do chain punch shoulders dnt have many job or have that little job , bitseps and latsimous have many job , and im have oppinion like first in ewry traning must do just for form about 3000 chain punches . ok just my oppinion and friendly tiger_1;)

[Sharky]

1000 is really nothing to shout about. do this:

1 x 20 single chain punches (ie chain punching 1 at a time)
1 x 20 double chain punches (ie u always lead with left... one two,one two when one is right punch, 2 is left punch, then left stays out... u know double punch right??!). Now do it on ur other arm.

Then do 3 punches, then 4 at a time, then 5 at a time, then 7, then go back to 5, then 4, then 3 etc... that's enough for you now. you will be doing well if you finish that.

BUT - MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT BECOME A TEST OF HOW LONG U CAN KEEP YOUR ARMS IN THE AIR (IE SIMPLY TESTING THE ENDURANCE OF UR LATS). THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Your lats will get a lot of definition from this though iron, u said u were skinny etc :)

trust me 1000 is nothing.

[Sharky]

dude if u can't do 100 air punches then yuo got FAR too much tension in there - i know u been lifting weights, 100 punches REALLY IS nothing.

[sphynx]

like i said i am only a month into training, so im off to a good start, thanks to you all and the training ideas. i have only been doing all this punching for the last few days. i punch for form now, but my shoulders get sooooo tired. i was working out and found that my shoulders are my weakest area. even though i try to stay relaxed they get rather fatigued. i keep my centerline, working on and off the wallbag. one of my seniors (one sash higher) just started chi sao and commented how bad his shoulders hurt afterward. im working hard here so that i can concentrate on learning what im shown rather than the fact i can no longer raise my arms. ;)

btw: i filled my wallbag with steel bb's, what are you all using???


jeremy

[Sharky]

FIRST OF ALL, you only been trainin a month? Get off the wallbag. SECOND, take the METAL BB'S out of your bag. They are too hard. Use rice until that is too easy - i guarantee it won't be too easy for you.

" Ikeep my centerline, working on and off the wallbag. one of my seniors (one sash higher) just started chi sao and commented how bad his shoulders hurt afterward. im working hard here so that i can concentrate on learning what im shown rather than the fact i can no longer raise my arms. "

Yeah, due to chi sau being new to him his shoulders will hurt. There will a) Be lots of tension in his shoulders (he has to keep his hands suspended while pressure is pushing them down - and someone just resting their fuk on ur tan can feel like a 2 ton weight after a long session). As he refines his movement and, inevitablet gets a bit stronger, he will get used to it.

[Sharky]

people say fill ur bag with mung beans but that is too expensive for me. i think sand is actually a bit harsh for beginners too. I love the feel of rice in there, esp for beginners.

[Sharky]

obviously this is all just my not so humble opinion, not gospel.

[red5angel]

Hey Sharky, you have a lot of caffeine today? :)

[sphynx]

hey sharky, i respect your not so humble opinion. lol

however, even my sifu has me on the wallbag, its a great target to make sure that punch comes straight out i think. i been doing the wallbag far longer than i been training though. we use sand at the kwoon, but to be honest i find it a little soft even when i hit full power. ive only been in one fight in my whole life, but i remeber how hard his head was, and how my hand hurt afterward. maybe im a little too gung-ho too early;) i hit the heavy bag for years, so the knuckles are pretty tough from the canvas. i will certainly try some rice to see if that gives nice feedback, but im really fond of those bb's! thanks for the input.

anyone else think i should get off the wallbag and/or use a different filling???

[Sharky]

hehe.. i'm just about to make a coffee! i'm just putting off starting some work :) and i really miss Wing chun, i wish there was a school i could goto :( :mad: I never reached my dream of learning all three hand forms. Didn't even come close - and it wasn't for bloody lack of trying. If i can't do it i might as well chat about it :)

I might go play with my wall bag, make coffee, then study.

[red5angel]

Sharky - Arent there any schools there in London? I was under the impression from hearing you brits talk that there were quite a few schools there!

[Sharky]

it's like this: i'm from london - but i'm at uni studying in cardiff wales at the moment. there is only place in south wales but i can't get to it unless i got a car. guys used to pick me up and take me there (senior students) but one day they just stopped and wouldn't answer my calls - so i took up boxing. :(

don't get me wrong, i love boxing - i wish i could do both (i reckon i could make it work :D )

[red5angel]

That sucks man! I have to bus to and from my class, about 45 minutes to an hour one way. Not including the 10-45 minute layover at the freakin Mall of America!!!!
It is worth it though, I love wing chun! Funny thing is, our kwoon is in a space some boxing Gym used to use!

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Sharky
BUT - MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT BECOME A TEST OF HOW LONG U CAN KEEP YOUR ARMS IN THE AIR (IE SIMPLY TESTING THE ENDURANCE OF UR LATS). THAT IS NOT THE POINT.


Dude, holding your arms in the air doesn't involve the lats. Sorry. Do you mean deltoids? Holding them in the air uses your deltoids (shoulder), more specifically, anterior (front) deltoid.



Your lats will get a lot of definition from this though iron, u said u were skinny etc :)


I didn't say I was skinny, I said I was an ectomorph :) My shoulders and lats are already huge. Definition comes from low bodyfat, not punching. But since I'm an ectomorph my bodyfat is already low :)



trust me 1000 is nothing.

I know. ::sniff::

IronFist

[[Censored]]

if you punch 60 times per second, it'll take about, ahm, less then 18 minutes, right? So, what's the problem?

Wow, you just might knock those William Cheung speed-punchers out of the Guinness book! ;)

Seriously though, 1000 punches should be no problem. I am not particularly strong or well-conditioned, but I will hit the bag 5000 times without getting tired; my patience runs out before my shoulders do. Relaxation first, power last.

[reneritchie]

There seems to be some modern research indicatiing more isn't necessarily better (that after a certain point, more reps are redundant or even counter productive). I'm not sure if it was posted here or on the WCML, but a physilogist went over it a few months back.

WRT punching. Similar to the SNT thread, more punching doesn't equal better punching. Doing 1000 punches is a waste of time if they aren't 1000 excellent punches. People aren't automatons. Even if you believe in a very physical, muscle oriented WCK and want to develop shoulders to support it, there needs to be specific goals and constant increase in challenge.

IMHO, try doing 10 really good punches, then 100. If you're into structure, try to minimize the use of shoulder muscle (you'll feel it in the lats, the intercostals, the legs, and so on until your body gets comfortable with the approach - its different to non-WCK movement so has to be deliberately trained).

Try to keep some variation. The recommendations about 1, 2, and 3 punch cycles are good, as is alternating between fully withdrawn punches and chain punches. You can alternate hight, you can use footwork, multiple angles, different methods, etc.

If the goal is to have a world record in chain punching, doing lots and lots of chain punching is probably the way to go. If the goal is WCK, sense of enemy, bridge adaption and flexibility, body connection and dis-connection, variation, combination, and all sorts of other elements come into play as well.

Just my 2c.

RR

[Sharky]

sorry yeah meant deltoids mate

[IronFist]

Good, now you make sense :)

IronFist

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by Sharky
people say fill ur bag with mung beans but that is too expensive for me. i think sand is actually a bit harsh for beginners too. I love the feel of rice in there, esp for beginners.

Went to an oriental supermarket and got 5 bags for about $0.59 a bag, totally around $3.45, give or take some cents. It all depends where ya look. Sure it took me about 20 extra minutes to get out there, but it was worth saving over the $4 a normal grocery store sells them for, especially since you got LESS per bag.

[flashg7]

Hi everyone,
This is how we do 1000 punches in my class:
First, we warm up with 100 single punches. Then, we do 34 sets of 10 triple punches. Triple punches are done by throwing 3 punches for each exhalation. So, 1 set of 10 triple punches = 30 punches, and 34 sets of 10 triple punches = 1020 punches. We don't rest after each set of 10, so the net effect is 1000 punches in a row. Beginners will usually start with single punches only, then progress to triple punches. When the form of their single punches looks ok, they'll progress to 10 sets of triple punches, or 300 punches, then slowly build up to 1000. Doing 1000 punches is good for those whose punches are too stiff, because they'll be forced to relax or they'll never be able to reach 1000. When doing 1000, the instructors have to push the students and monitor their form, as they tend to lose focus get sloppy as their shoulders start to burn. This is where the mental discipline comes in, and it becomes sort of a "moving meditation". The biggest problem is beginners will tend to pull the first two punches short and only extend the third punch, so the intructor has to have a keen eye and constantly remind the student to extend all 3 punches, but in the end it's a very effective way of building endurance and solid punches. Of course, they must hit the wall bag too!
Just my 2 cents!

[popsider]

Excuse me? How long is it supposed to take to get to 1000/day? Is that 1000 in a row, as fast as you can chain punches? That's gotta take like 20 minutes. I can do like 100 and then my shoulders die.

IronFist [/B][/QUOTE]


You must practice very infrequently or have an awful lot of tension in your shoulders. Keep training and you'll be amazed how you progress. I used to think I couldn't run - now I run for an hour or so a couple of times a week - you build up to it gradually and things you think are beyond you become routine.

My schedule used to be 50 single punches, then 20 double, 20 treble, 20 quadruple, and then 10 X sets of 5, 6 and so on all the way to 10. I think that is around 700 - which I thought was OK for a regular practice session at home - then I'd normally go through the first form (15 minutes plus) and finish off working on whatever I fancied - that might have been sand bag, heavy bag, 2nd/3rd forms etc. This wasn't every day but I aimed for about 3 times a week solo practice - enough for slow progress.

I say said "used to be" because I've been out of wing chun for a couple of months now and I find it hard to keep up my own practice when I'm not attending a class. Aiming to restart any week now though.

[Sharky]

I'll stand corrected then. I was told that it would cost more than the bag to fill it will mung beans.

Fair enough cool.

[IronFist]

1000 punches in class? How long are your classes? I heard 1000 punches takes like 20 minutes. Does your sifu tell you that you should practice punches at home, too? Or is the in class stuff just there for form checking.

If I started each class with 1000 punches, I'd be too tired to do anything afterwards.

IronFist

[Sharky]

stop being a bit.ch.

you must be using loads of tension in the whole of your arm. use only what muscles need to be used to perform the action.

if you can only do 100, do 100.

[Shaolin-Akira]

in my kung fu school we do punching from a low horse stance for 5 mins normaly 2-3 sets throught the time im there (like 5 hours) even the noobs can do it =P
say you punch 5 times a second, 300 per min, 1500 in 5 mins. right? not that hard. unless your tenced up

edit: and we normaly start with 5 min punching then go on to hand games and puch hands, then do some conditioning/wooden dummy. and then on to a lower body work out, kicks... or somthing.

[Shaolin-Akira]

but then agian, the school i go to is not primarly wingchun, its shaolin 5 fists, choy lay fut, hung gar, with bagua, taichi, china, and other thrown in there. class goes from 4pm to 9:30pm, we noramly get a lot done.

[Neo]

Here's what we did last night - 1001 punches:

1 punch set of 10
2 punches set of 10
3 punches set of 10
4 punches set of 10
5 punches set of 10
6 punches set of 10
7 punches set of 10
6 punches set of 10
5 punches set of 10
4 punches set of 10
3 punches set of 10
2 punches set of 10
1 punch set of 10
7 punches set of 10
560
3 punches set of 10 balancing on left leg
3 punches set of 10 balancing on right leg
3 punches set of 10 balancing on left leg
3 punches set of 10 balancing on right leg
680
3 punches set of 10 3 sets in horse riding stance
770

3 punches set of 10 2 sets on left side dragon stance
3 punches set of 10 2 sets on right side dragon stance
890

3 punches set of 10 3 sets groundfighting position
980

3 punches set of 7

1001 punches! Took about ten minutes

[kj]

Sounds like a lot in a short time. How did you gage accuracy or power? Have you implemented some means to ensure no over-commitment is involved when punching fast?

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Neo]

It was done more as a test of physical and mental endurance. For some its easy, for others, especially new students, its hard and they have the desire to stop!