Cameron

[GeneChing]

If that got your attention, shame on you.

Any more mentions of Cameron that I catch will have to be banned.

This is the deal. For those of you that remember the Cameron banning and its circumstances, it's over and done. Past history. Let's move on. He still has associates that report the activities of this forum to him. I'm tired of dealing with it and I think we all are. Please take it somewhere else. We're big proponents of freedom os speech here, but enough is enough.

This post may be deleted in a few days but the warning stands. Thank you for your cooperation.

[Royal Dragon]

Royaldragon.4dw.com
Click on the Dungeon link

[fightfan]

ttt

[Badger]

So...freedom of speech is only for the badguys.....

Thanks & Goodbye.

[red5angel]

no badger, what he is saying is that NO ONE will talk about it anymore, bad guys or good guys. I think it is a good call.

[rogue]

Can we refer to him without using you know whos name?

[KC Elbows]

Shame on me.

I've been trolled by Gene.

Really, though I won't talk about it anymore, its kind of an interesting conundrum in forum moderation. Just what is a moderator responsible for? Exactly where does freedom on the internet stop? And what of security? Many seem to think the internet is about total freedom, and many others seem to think that there must still be accountability.

Crazy times.

Is there a forum about forums out there?

[red5angel]

Hey KC, it is an excellent subject. Alot of people believe they should be able to say what they want on here with little or no moderation, but with no control you get anarchy.

[Tigerstyle]

In my defense, I clicked on the link thinking he meant Cameron like a first name.

I was sort of expecting Cameron Diaz. Shame on you, Gene.

[JasBourne]

Let's see:

- Heated, noisy debate going on

- Head muckymuck of Kungfu Magazine starts thread with very enticing bait: "Cameron" - just the one word, like "Cher" or "Madonna", or "Buffy", not saying much yet saying everything. Woop, must be an official announcement on all this noise!

- Click to get in

- "Shame on you."


...dang, mark the calendar, I've been trolled by Gene Ching!


;)

[Royal Dragon]

Thinking about it, Gene is taking a responsible stance. After all, this is a Kung Fu forum, and Cameron is a disgustiong topic from the get go (best disscussed on forums with names like "the Dungeon").

If I have to compare FFab's method of handling the situation with Gene's, it's obvious that Gene is the one who's got it together.

NO cameron disscussions is much better than allowing that sick freak to be an active member of the comunity.


KFO Rules!!!

[diego]

your like the main kfo admin, of course were going to check your posts:)

[qeySuS]

"So...freedom of speech is only for the badguys..... "

No actually freedom of speech doesnt exist online. Neal Cameron isnt a part of this forum, and yet you keep talking about him. There is no such thing as freedom of speech and such online, Gene owns this place and if he doesnt want some element here he can make it so. IMO it's a good thing and freedom of speech isnt something that should be online. Some msg boards will host this and that's fine then people can stay there, this one wont which is great for me because i'm sick and tired of reading about it oevr and over again (especially since the guy isnt even a member and cant answer for himself, talk to him on cyberkwoon where he can answer).

[GeneChing]

... and I get a monthly bill to host this monster to prove it. This is a big forum - it is for the public but it is privately owned by Kungfu Magazine. On the whole, we take a fairly permissive stance. I'm a publisher myself so I firmly believe in freedom of speech. But at the same time, I have to wade through a fat list of complaints every day here as an adminstrator and many are well warrented. On the subject of Mr. Cameron, he was banned from our forum and that is it. To continue to bring him up serves no purpose but to antagonize our forum.

As for me trolling some of you, LOL, what goes around comes around. Cameron Diaz, ok that's a fair cop. Those who peeked to see Diaz are off the hook. ;) And for those of you who clicked in jsut because I posted it, well, that's cool too. :cool: Those of you who shuld be ashamed, you know who you are. :mad: But let's get back to the kungfu and leave banned members alone.

[Badger]

I apologize Gene...you are doing the right thing.

I just have a hatred toward people who hurt children, women, etc.



Badger

[DelicateSound]

I have a lot of respect for Gene, he's responsible and neutral, like Dad without the drinking problem. :D


I would have more respect for him if he and KungFu Magazine sponsored a hoard of tooled up board members to pay Mr.Cameron a visit, and to beat him to a living pulp, but as it stands, not mentioning him is a fair trade-off.

[SifuAbel]

So out of all the crrap that KFM has tolerated and all the trolls and all the absolutely stupid posts, this one is being given some sort of special treatment? Who is leaning on you gene? FFAB? please. That explanation seems all too incomplete.

BTW, this forum isn't here out of the goodness of your heart, it's here to sell magazines and advertising. Of which you are making money on, so please don't play that card.

You want to ban me, go ahead.

[Asia]

Since we are complaining... I have this problem with a supscription I had to KFM.....What can you do for me?

[qeySuS]

Sing this to "Dancing queen" with ABBA

"Drama Queen"


You can flame, you can lie, having the time of your life
See her yell, watch her scream, digs from the Drama Queen

Friday night and your I.Q’s low
Looking out for the place to go
Where they post the right topic, getting in the site
You come in to look for a fight
Anybody could be that guy
Night is young and the rage is high
With a bit of hysterics, everything is fine
You're in the mood for a dance
And when you get the chance...

You are the Drama Queen, old and mean, venting out your spleen
Drama Queen, feel the heat from your keyboarding
You can flame, you can lie, having the time of your life
See her yell, watch her scream, digs from the Drama Queen

You're a baiter, you egg 'em on
Leave them burning and then you're gone
Looking out for another, anyone will do
You're in the mood for a dance
And when you get the chance...

You are the Drama Queen, old and mean, venting out your spleen
Drama Queen, feel the heat from your keyboarding
You can flame, you can lie, having the time of your life
See her yell, watch her scream, digs from the Drama Queen

[Sharky]

"I have a lot of respect for Gene, he's responsible and neutral, like Dad without the drinking problem."

:D :D :D ^^^^ and lol at that too :D

[HuangKaiVun]

I like your new attitude toward stuff like this, GeneChing.

My only suggestion is that you close this thread and delete the old ones that are offensive to KFO. Draconian problems warrant draconian solutions - such is the way of kung fu.

This forum belongs to KFO, not its members. We as members should happily respect Gene's (and thus KFO's) decree as the price of being allowed to post here.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

that was pretty funny royal dragon. especially since you got it right after genes post.

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah it was one of those spontaneous kind'a things, with little thought. Just seemed to be the coolest thing to say at the moment.

[GeneChing]

... I'll probably delete this whole thread and we will be done with it. How many times must we remind ourselves to move forward? Perhaps I will see some of you at Berkeley in a few hours and we can discuss things face-to-face if you like.

SifuAbel, do you really want me to ban you? I've have had a few people request to be banned, which seems ridiculous to me - it's like high school kids trying to gain status with demerits. Just don't come back to the forum. It's only a web forum, after all. But if you would really like to be banned, I certainly won't deny you. Let me know, either way...

[SifuAbel]

Gene,

You do you want. It's your business to throw away. It's your money. It's your equiptment I won't buy. It your Tiger claw products I won't reccomend. It's your tournaments that I and probably our whole organization won't support. It's your magazine that gets the heave ho to the dumpster along with the catalog. It's your table my students will not frequent. You want to make an enemy out of me, buddy, you aint seen nothing yet. And, I will not be silent as to WHY. So you go ahead, ban me, don't be surprised if some of the faces you meet in the future don't smile. I really don't know or care to know why this one subject has got your nipples in a twist. Why ONE thread about a creep and a low life outweighs all the other crap. Perhaps if you had this stance from the beginning the quality of this forum wouldn't be were it is.

Do what you want.
I don't give a shiit anymore.

[Xebsball]

Abel...

dude, relax man

[Mr Punch]

:confused: Abel: everybody pretty much agreed with you about Cameron! He's not on this board as far as anyone knows! Now you're trying to pick a fight with Gene, who also agreed with you!

Well, hell, I've seen people try reason with you and I've seen your sign-off line... you always seem to hit the overreact button! Everything seems overshadowed by the height of your horse! For a teacher you're such a precious puzzy! Overreact to that! There you go: have the last word...

[red_fists]

Next Fight announcement:

Sifu Abel vs the rest of the world.

:D :D

[wushu chik]

You know...you being made a martyr is just stupid. I personally am so sick and tired of hearing about Neil Cameron. He's not here, so who cares. With the money Tiger Claw and KFM make, i really don't think that you, your students and your organization are going to make a dent in their pocketbooks. I personally think it's good that Gene has done something about it. I mean really, what page was that thread on? Like 10 already? Give me a break. If you wanna go b!tch, go to the forum where all the probs are going on, and B!TCH THERE. The only thing you are doing to you is making an ASS out of yourself. Go complain to FFAB and if you have to...take it to the head of the thread. And, I agree with Gene...you are acting like a highschool kid...get over it. Get over yourself.

[anton]

"You want to ban me, go ahead."
-----
"You do you want. It's your business to throw away. It's your money. It's your equiptment I won't buy. It your Tiger claw products I won't reccomend. It's your tournaments that I and probably our whole organization won't support. It's your magazine that gets the heave ho to the dumpster along with the catalog. It's your table my students will not frequent. You want to make an enemy out of me, buddy, you aint seen nothing yet. And, I will not be silent as to WHY. So you go ahead, ban me, don't be surprised if some of the faces you meet in the future don't smile. I really don't know or care to know why this one subject has got your nipples in a twist."
-----
"Do what you want. I don't give a shiit anymore."
--------------------------------

WTF?

Summary of conversation:

SF: Ban me I don't give a ****
GC: Are you sure you want me to ban you? It's a web forum if you don't wanna participate you don't hav to come here.
SF: You, ban me and you're gonna regret it mofo, you ban me and I'll do what I can to make your life unpleasant. But I don't give a ****.


SF's attitude has changed from "ban me I dont geve a ****" to "I do care, and if you ban me I'll make you regret it" and back to "ban me I don't give a ****" in two posts on the same page. I think it's quite obvious who has their "nipples in a twist".

SifuAbel: Calm down man, I understand that you feel strongly about this topic, but just relax and control yourself.

[Royal Dragon]

(Said in angry Sifu voice) SIT THE FU(K DOWN AND BREATH!!!

Your the one that brought the "Bann me" thing up here Bro.

Your fight is with FFAb, not Gene. You've got yourself so upset overthis that your starting fights IN YOUR OWN CAMP!!!!!

Dude, just back off slowly, and apologise to Gene for being an A$$, before I have to jump on a plane, come dow there and slap you around a bit :D

RD

[fightfan]

:o
I havent seen a adult react this way for nothing since... well, never.
IMO Grow the heII up and stop the threats or better yet make the "quality of this forum" better and dont return.

[jon]

SifuAbel

Come sit down and have some tea...

Seriously there is no reason for this, you and me have crossed words before but i have no wish to see you disapear becouse your obviously simply stressed out.
I dont know you personaly but i know enough to realise when someone is not acting themselves and lately you have not been!
This jumping on people has been a recent thing and i think even you must realise that its detrimental to you any way you look at it.

Im not posting to argue with you nor am i trying to offer someone who is obviously a my senior any great advice.
Im just asking nicely that you take a look back though your recent posts and maybe try to find a way to just stop being so defensive. Your not ALWAYS under attack here but sometimes I get the impression you seem to think you are.

All respects im just stating something in plain text make of it what you wish.
All the best
Jon

[red_fists]

Yo Abel.

Methinks, you need a few weeks in quiet meditation and calmness to find your center again.

Honestly chill, and come down from that dead Horse that you are flogging.

Maybe take a good long sabbatical from the Net.

Just some friendly advice.

[Royal Dragon]

Numer 8 should be "repeat"

Maybe Abel will be calmer this morning after a good nights rest.

[fightfan]

Royal Dragon,
doh, how could I forget to add that? Thanks bro.:D

[Royal Dragon]

allways glad to help!!

[David Jamieson]

I am closing this thread now. Point was made, nuff said.

peace

[GeneChing]

It's just too bizarre.

SifuAbel, I really don't want to ban you, but I will if you want me to. I'm happy to do what YOU want, but I really couldn't tell from your post where you said "yes, ban me" or "no, do not ban me." You are continuing to post so I assume you are enjoying our forum as much as the rest of us, but if you really want to be banned, just state clearly, "yes, ban me." Otherwise, let's go on.

As for the initial subject of this thread, there is a legal issue here that I am not at liberty to disclose, so I will be very grateful if we can all just drop it. I realize emotions run high here, but it is not appropriate subject matter for this forum, nor has it ever been so, especially when it threatens our smooth operation. Since it is completely unbeneficial, I have to adopt an aggressive stance against it's continuation. That's all.

OK, Kung Lek, you can close the thread again if you like...

[wushu chik]

Gene, you are awesome. :) And, thanks for the little tidbit on the "legal" thing! Makes more sense now! As for Abel, I don't think HE knows what he wants! Anyways, have a great day!

~Wen~

[DelicateSound]

In a way Gene, it could be argued that the issue is one of moral integrity, in direct relation to a "martial artist" of sorts, and that given the spiritual nature of many peoples training that this kind of topic is a relavant, ableit touchy subject.



But what the heck, like everything it just degenerates into abuse and waffle.

[GreyMystik]

in a way, it could be argued that sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken...

:p

just wanted to get somethin in before it was closed.

[SifuAbel]

"Any more mentions of Cameron that I catch will have to be banned. "

You are one that started with the whole banning issue, so don't throw it on me buddy. These are your words. If you meant deleted or locked it would be another issue entirely.

And what happened to the Attn:Gene post? It had my answer to you as well as the opinions of those who recanted their support of your decision. What, it looks bad on you so you delete it?

Lucky for me i saved it.

"Although he has the right to move or remove posts from
his board. It is NOT right for him to completely shut
off people rights to say what they feel. I am not the
only one that took offense to this statement. I am not
the only one that expressed anger at neil and later at
gene's "ruling", just the loudest. Even those that
told me to chill later questioned how Ralek can go on and
on in his 10,000 stupidities and Stacey could be neals twin but
my one post mention of squirrly boy will be banned. "

What the heck is martials arts if not about security and defense?

Now we get,"As for the initial subject of this thread, there is a legal issue here that I am not at liberty to disclose, so I will be very grateful if we can all just drop it. "

So all this threatening and posturing to members of this board is about some non disclosure agreement you have with NC's lawyers? Then why is he still banned? If he's innocent(yeah right).

You are not disclosing anything, we are, private citizens.
What, I forgot to put "OT "on the beginning of my post to make it ok to talk about something other than kung fu?

And for once I agree with DS.

[JWTAYLOR]

Kung fu is way better than Karate.
BJJ is superior.
Ninjas are cool, and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

Come on, we all know it's going to come to that eventually.

JWT

[diego]

guess you missed that, they did thier job, now what do you want, if you havent noticed ot usually stays, when its done by members, who p[ost simple things wich usually relate to a minority" such as a rap thread, or a metal thread or a thread on jwt dog" these threads are exceptable, because the metal guys wont post on the rap threads, and etc; and not everyone cares about his dog...., but this topic and if you havent noticed most 911 topics get thrown out, as it becomes the main topic usually, with some hating and, etc.

I dont know why you are asking gene about your bill of rights,
thought id point that out to you

[diego]

i read that story about the girl you helped, but when i first read it im like oh**** he gonna shoot someone led by his big dog, then you pointed out you have a wiener, dog and its like OHYA:D The story went from action thriller/drama to action comedy:)

[Ryu]

Hmm.

:cool:

[wushu chik]

I agee with Ryu on this....

[Wu Lung]

Gene. Could you please e-mail me the details of the legal situation that KFO is adherent to. It may be relevant to Cyberkwoon's position. Answer in this thread if you like, otherwise I'll check my e-mail.

Please use feiwulung@yahoo.co.uk

Many thanks.

[GeneChing]

I'm not sure I saw that Attn: Gene thread. Our Publisher Gigi Oh, is in China this month on research and we are just going to press with our 10 Year Anniversary Special Issue, so forgive me for being a little more scattered than usual. If I did see that thread, I would have answered it. I always respond - you know I do. Perhaps one of the other moderators got to it before I had a chance to do so. I haven't had the opportunity to give much attention to the forum these last few weeks.

For the record, we have no legal relationship with NC's lawyers whatsoever. We have never been contacted by them, not once. We have been presented with legal documents by another party on behalf of a victim. It is for the sake of their protection and their healing process, we banned NC and are making an aggressive attempt to rid our board of any further reference to him.

As a publisher and the primary adminstrator of this forum, I take Voltaire's stance on moderation, quote “I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.” For example, I let the anti-magazine, anti-tiger claw post earlier on this thread stand. Now, I cannot speak for the other moderators here - each of our moderators has their own unique style and I completely support their contribution to our forum. In fact, this is the first time I have overridden any action by on of our moderators (Sorry Kung Lek, I'll make it up to you.) But this situation is unique.

You may feel that it is your constitutional right to say anything you like. That's true on your own forum, but not here. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Here it is necessary.

As warriors, we all share a revulsion of wickeness and are offended that a violator may walk among us. But what about the victim? They may walk among us too. Every time you bring this up again, they are reminded. Where's the moral integrity in that?

SifuAbel, I don't want to ban anyone. In fact, I want our membership to grow and grow. But if you persist in this, you leave me little choice. The choice is yours.

[Royal Dragon]

Gene, you are right about the Free speach thing. You are NOT obligated to host other's right to free speach. Anyone that wishes to say anything on the net can aquire a free webhost like Dreamwater, and post whatever they want on it. Message boards (although limited in options) can also be gotten free (I have 3 actually, one is a trial version of a premium forum, but hey it's free now).

As far as Banning Abel goes, I'd just let that one slide. he's done little to deserve it, other than taugnt you over the subject. It's been entertaining to a point anyway.

If neal wants to see the disscusion droped, then we should all respect that for what it's worth, and continue to taunt him as much as possible.

HOWEVER, If the victems want to see the disscussion dropped because of the emotional trauma it causes, then we should all respect that and shut up.

I hope they understand that we as martial artist, and human beings are VIOLENTLY out raged at what has happened to them, or theses conversations would not even take place.

Royal Dragon

[Badger]

SifuAbel has done nothing wrong IMHO.
He wants people to be aware of a predator who I bet still frequents this board under other names.

If there were more SifuAbels there would be alot less of these scumbags.

I am sick of seeing these idiots get off...only to go out & do the same thing again.

Parents need to press charges & not let up till the predator is put away.

Remember if a predator gets off he is then free to make another victim.


Badger

[Asia]

SifuAbel has done nothing wrong IMHO.He wants people to be aware of a predator who I bet still frequents this board under other names.

If there were more SifuAbels there would be alot less of these scumbags.



'It is not what you say it HOW you say it' I think many applaud Abel's efforts but he tends to range from cool guy to jacka$$ at times.

I really don't know why the tension is still here over this subject, other thatn entertainment. But I think the message has been sent and it should just die, which is what Gene was getting at then.....


So my final word on this is YAWN!!!! and go on

[Royal Dragon]

The victems did what they legally could, and got little satisfaction for their efforts. I could go into a rant, but I don't have time right now, all I can say is something needs to be done about the miniscual time served for crimes commited in this country, especially of the cameron nature.

Oh just for another dig, I've decide not to use capital letters in camerons name, as he just doesn't deserve letters at all, let alone capital ones.

[DelicateSound]

Shall we just say that:

*It is right to destroy sickos
*It is right for the moderators to moderate in a legal issue
*It is right to have free speech, but this is an exception



And then let it drop, OK.


Abel, I share your viewpoint, but if the issue is a victims wish then we should make an exception.

Sound reasonable guys?

And by the way:


miniscual time served for crimes commited in this country, especially of the cameron nature


Same everywhere I'm afraid. "Jails are overcrowded". Then let me shoot them.