Fight or Flight?

[HuangKaiVun]

Sharky's excellent "Scared" post got me thinking:

Are you more inclined toward either fight or flight?


I'm a fighter all the way.

I get scared, like everyone else. But the next thing that happens when I get scared is that I get MAD. Then I go into a bloody rage and become hellbent on overcoming the threatening situation.

All thoughts of being humiliated or defeated go out the window when I get in that berserker state. My only goal is to attack my situation, tear it down, stomp on the remains, and prevent it from daring to face me again.

As a child, I was constantly being bullied by parents and enemies. I was one of those stereotypical Asian kids that was supposed to be #1 in everything, and I paid for it dearly when I wasn't. Then being Chinese in school wasn't easy either, and I was bullied at first. Then I became really MAD and went on a revenge spree against every bully in life who had tormented me, including my own parents (took years to do, but I did it). And I ENJOYED IT.

Even in classical violin, I've learned to channel the anger I had at not being able to play to my satisfactions into positive practice time. "OK, I'll get you THIS TIME" I snarl at my problems. In kung fu, I'm no different. I'm fighting my inner "suckiness", but my rage is focused toward making myself less wimpy. This is what I try to impart to my violin students in order to make them better players while still being happy with themselves as people.

I used to burn out regularly in rages before, but I've learned to temper it with the spirit of self-acceptance. It used to be "I suck", now it's "I've come a long way but need to work harder to get better".

Then again, I quit medical school because of the rages that were consuming me and my work from within. I literally couldn't take care of patients because all the emotional trauma from growing up resurfaced once I had become all that my parents wanted me to become. That was one of the few times in my life I did "flight" instead of "fight".

Still, I've come to embrace my rages and accept them as part of my person. In a way, it's comforting because I know I won't lie down and play dead when I need to be a man. Nor will I blindly lash out when that would only mean a quick demise; I'll pick my spots and know when to run when things are absolutely hopeless.

What about you guys?

[Sum Sing Wong]

funny you should bring this up, I just semi-learned about this in Pshcology, I don't pay much attention. But I think in most cases I would tend to Fight.

[fightfan]

Huang, one word... Buspar.;)
J/K seriously though, I was the same way. Now I leave all that anger on the mats. Im a strong believer that the human animal needs to use up all that extra energy. If you let it build up, you WILL explode every so often.
OK, OK, I still blow up once in a while, especially in rush hour traffic, but a lot less now! :D
Good luck!

[Mr Punch]

...and I'm not talking about down there!:eek:

I don't have trouble with standing and fighting, and I've happily turned tail and scarpered a few times... it's when it's not black and white that always gets me:

there's someone in your face, you can probably take him down or out, but you're trying to take it down a notch, the situation, cos it won't really help to blow up... THE ADRENALINE IS PUMPIN ROUND YOUR SYSTEM, you're losing control of your face, but you dunno if it looks mean or like a crumpled rag, you try to maintain calm, you try to remember the zen bits, that funky breathing technique, BUT THE ADRENALINE IS STILL PUMPING ROUND THE SYSTEM... are you visibly shaking? and this guy's still in your face, why hasn't he gone yet...???:confused: :( :mad:

So then what do you do?

Reading this kind of post, you think "**** it, I'd just rip him a new *******" and worry about it later... but it's these kind of situations that get to me... it's these kind of situations that leave you wondering...

And Huang, it's these situations that tend to consume me, at the time, and in a couple of sits I can think of, for some years later. I can handle my rage, I know my fear (those **** horses!)... but I still don't know about the other one!

Fight/Flight/the other one!?:rolleyes: Doesn't sound so cool for your psych tests does it?!

ff wtf's 'buspar'?:)

[Mr Punch]

108! 108! 108 posts!:D

... and maybe 107 of them garbage...!:(

DOH!

back to the kwoon...

[dre]

I can't run , thats one of the reasons I started KF. So the "flight" option is closed to me. So fight it is!

[LEGEND]

Look if u're studying in a combat art you have to decide right away do u flight or fight...why are u studying a combat art to walk away??? How often can u really walk away from a fight...most predators/bully will attempt to overwhem you if you do walk away. So if anyone gets in your FACE without hesistation launch a premptive strike!!! This lesson was taught to me by a CMA guy not a BJJ guy or others. CMA guys are not suppose to compromise and allow a guy to get the position of getting in your face.

[HuangKaiVun]

In my style, I work on how to move forwards and backwads, in and out of seats, and on and off the floor.

Nobody has had the opportunity to get in my face thus far because I'm too agile and smart for them to even get to me.

I firmly believe that knowing how to avoid confrontation altogether is the TRUE pre-emptive strike - the highest level of "fight" there is.

[red5angel]

Hmmmm, I doubt your are going to see any posters admit they run like hell when something scares the crap out of them, not in this testosterone filled forum!

However, I have had both reactions, and I could not say what causes one or the other or what determines which way I would react, since my service in the marines, and my studying of MA began, I have worked to train my reaction to be to step back and give the situation a once over, see what my options are.

[red_fists]

For me it depends on the situation.

It is not an answer I can give now.

As for going into a rage and going mad, isn't that contrare to what MA is all about, don't we train to stay in control of our bodies & mind at all times?

[HuangKaiVun]

I agree, redangel.

Then again, I'd be the first to run like hell if confronted with a situation that warranted it.


One can be in a full bloody rage without losing control, red_fists.

A guy like Michael Jordan routinely gets himself mad to make himself play better. He's in full rage while playing, and he's MORE controlled then he is when not in rage.

Similarly, I do my kung fu best when faced with an opponent who I feel is trying to tear me down. I become stronger, quicker, more calculating, and more aware. That's my sympathetic nervous system working on me.

I don't see rage as being the opposite of control. If anything, learning how to harness and utilize that rage can make one's self control even more focused.

[red_fists]

One can be in a full bloody rage without losing control, red_fists.

Huang.

If you can do it all the more power to you.
IME most People that go into a rage simply forget everything that they learned and fight simply to overcome.

And normally win by sheer determination/force rather than skill.

[joedoe]

I am not too proud to admit that I would run away at the first sign of a fight. While I believe that I am at least a competent fighter, I also believe that there is always someone out there better. Not to mention the role that chance plays in such encounters.

No, it is better not to be there at all. I would rather have a bruised ego/reputation than a bruised body :)

[Justa Man]

i think i can handle myself pretty well, but if given the chance, i'd book everytime. no need to fight when you can run. but if the situation is such that i can't run, then i will fight in an instant.
knowing when i have the choice or not is a major reason why i study.

[guohuen]

If you fight with rage you'll get old fast and start to lose. I've lived long enough to see it in dozens of people. I gave up using rage as motivation some 21 years ago although I will have to admit to some automotive turrettes syndrome.

[Sharky]

so are you taiwanese or chinese?

[Ray Pina]

I'm scared of losing ym job, not being able to pay rent or tuition. I don't get scared when fighting, maybe because I started young and the natural progression of point sparring to free fighting.

To me, and more so when the guy is bigger and meaner looking, it becomes a challenge. "How the hell is this guy going to beat you after all these years?" That's what's going through my head -- not really then, but now, envisioning possible confrontations.

If your in it, its too late to think about. Balls to the wall and throw down, hope the few go to techniques you got gets you in, keeps you in to do the damage and then out. Have to accept that you make take a shot or two. Damage Control! Where's your chin? Are you protecting the neck and chin. Where's your elbows. Learning to trade off to your benefit is good to learn.

I find, just fight. Fight. Fight. And the rest takes care of itself. As far as free sparring (training with classmates, gung fu buddies) goes, I get addicted. Where if I get into a rythm of doing some fighting on a regular basis I crave it if there is a break. I haven't been in a figth fight in a while. A few close calls a few months ago. I held my ground. In one case I got a shot off and that was it.

Generally, I tend to be the quite guy in the corner, prefering to stay home with friends and chill.

[HuangKaiVun]

Full blown Taiwanese: complete with shortness, facial hair, rapid fire physiology, and an inbord need to WORK.

[African Tiger]

Screw that shizmit. Walk in the way of the peaceful warrior, until some turd brings out the warrior...

then you walk all over his arse!

just for the record, this ****ing censoring yourself **** is for the ****ing birds, god ******. But I guess children/Ralek might be reading...

[Mr Punch]

Screw that shizmit. Walk in the way of the peaceful warrior, until some turd brings out the warrior...
then you walk all over his arse! African Tiger!

L. (Sorry, wasn't OL, and just L looks a bit lame!!) but true!

EF, great post, I agree totally, and get out of my quiet corner or it's about to get a lot louder!! :mad::D But I still think the following is the biggest problem we face as martial artists/fighters/thugs/Black Jack...

The problem still is, for me, what if (and this isn't another ****ing hypothetical cos I've been in this situation tens of times) they are in your face and you're trying to defuse the situation?

Legend: you must be a Legend if you just take 'em out every time. A real ****in hero.

But everyone else: I want the choice. Usually I wanna choose life (choose a job, choose a shiny car...:rolleyes: :D :cool: !). I practice so I DON'T have to kill someone. Any untrained chump with an attitude and a wild right can paste somebody's head to the kerb. Any gang of crackhead ****s can choose to take you to the ER. In THAT situation I'll do my 'level-headed' best to beat them to a pulp. But I like to think I'm different and I train to control that bull.

OK, I can, and have run and walked away many times. I've made a hell of a lot of mistakes too.

And OK, avoid the whole thing if you can. I haven't got a problem with not using dark alleys: hell, unless it means helping JWT swing his weiner at the afforementioned crackhead fiends from hell! But if I'm in a bar, and some ****ed up halfwit with sausage breath and a bad attitude comes up and starts (maybe starts friendly) with some wind-up crap, I don't wanna execute him with some 'flip-out' ninja ****! I want to talk him down.

It's at those times that someone is in-ya-face, and the adrenaline starts working adversely... and don't give me the "I'd buy him a beer" bit, cos you you may as well take down your kecks or take out your wallet. :confused: So: WHAT? I know there are soooo many different situations, but has anyone got any good strategies?

[scotty1]

Good thread, good posts.

Be as reasonable as possible for as long as possible, but don't let people take the p!ss, and if its going to go down FOR SURE then make sure its on your terms. ie. hit them first, damage them before they can damage you.

Then run like ****ing hell .

So Huang, you said you were Taiwanese through and through, but you referred to yourself as Chinese in your first post.
I always thought it was kind of an issue that Taiwan was not part of China. How do you consider your relationship to the Mainland?

[Ray Pina]

Good question Mat. This is my aproach.

I will not let a stranger get in my face. My friends never would. I respect them, they respect me. If there is a difference, we talk about it, maybe pick up our voices in the human: I'll talk louder than you so I must be right way. But they're my friends. We love each other, no problem.

On the street or at a club with a stranger, no one is getting that close -- up in my face -- with any type of anger intent. Come talk to me in ym ear about the DJ, about the girl in the corner. But if you just got ****ed about my accidentaly bumping you or soemthing, and step in all angry. my hands reach out slight to set up a barrier -- not too far, want to keep a strong position.

If they are set on fighting, they swat at the hands, at that point they have set off the trap.

I've never been in this situation actually. Usually at this point I can just walk away. Most of my fights happened growing up in Newark, on the playground over stupid stuff, like if the tennis ball went into the strike zone box, or in HS at some drunken keg party sticking up for a friend.

At a club some guy put a heavy hand on my shoulder because I was dancing too close to his girl. I gave him a shot in the bicep, Ala I'm just dancing, oops sorry. He pulled that $hit off real quick.

I walked away after a minute or two of lingering just for the point of it.

Fighting is silly. Defending oneself is different.

Best to ya. Hope you never have to fight.

[Mr Punch]

again!

Me too mate, me too.

[HuangKaiVun]

I've got GENETIC Taiwanese traits, but I consider Taiwan culturally to be a subgroup of Chinese culture as a whole.

It's like saying "I'm European" when you're from England.


Taiwan, if it had not been for the US military buildup there, probably would've been annexed by China.

Up until very recently, China has always been trying to take over Taiwan. This is because Taiwan is incredibly rich for such a small piece of land.

Nowadays, I think that is nowhere near as strong. The Taiwanese businesses have gone into China and set up factories and foreign trade. There's no point in "conquering" Taiwan because the economic benefits China wants it already is getting.

The subtle thing that's happening is that the ethnic Taiwanese culture is being phased out as mainland Chinese and Western influences take over. My parents were of that hardscrabble Taiwanese ethnicity, and it colored my life early on. So when my older relatives from Taiwan meet me, they are always impressed at how "Taiwanese" I am in nature.

We Taiwanese are FIGHTERS. This is why the country has become so incredibly successful despite being smaller than Rhode Island. That innately pugilistic nature can get us into trouble, and I've made lots of enemies over the years.

If there's one thing I learned, it's that self-defense often can be a result of self-OFFENSE.

[scotty1]

Thanks, thats interesting.:)

Recommended as a travel destination?

Or a training destination?

[Ray Pina]

Mat, something my teacher stresses and really changed my mindset since training with him.

"If you are going out to fight, don't go. We are rich and famous, you only go out to beat!."

He said this in regard to tournaments, and I guess challenge matches too. I'm comfortable fighting, in that I don't bug out. If I take a shot I take a shot. If I get put down I get put down. One can't go out and surf 15 foot waves and not expect to fall now and then -- comes with the territory.

But since training with these guys I see the vast difference in technology and level which made me take a step back. I'm still fighting. I see now where I am going, but not there yet. Of coarse its not fighting against inexperinced or bad players, but that's not fun. I want to get to a level where I can square off with a top notch fighter and just think: "Hmmm, how is this guy going to hit the canvas."

Now I kind of have the midset, that whover I'm squared off against hasn't gone through the things I've gone through, that no matter how big they are, they are not as tough. This mindset leads to a lot of bruses. I'm improving though.