Empyting the Cup and MMA.

[red_fists]

Hi All.

This is bassically a part of the "Keeping the Rank" Thread, but heading of on a different tangent.

BTW, MMA stands for Multiple Martial Arts.
A lot of MA require the Students to "Empty the Cup" in order to learn the system properly and well.
Or as is also often said " You cannot serve 2 Masters".

Personally, I am a firm believer in the "Empty the Cup" concept and thus have only studied/practiced 1 System at a time.

How do the Guys that practice multiple systems at the same time "Empty their Cup" for each system.

Also do you think it is truly possible to mix multiple system that have been learned using 1 by 1 with "emptying the Cup".
Wouldn't your Cup be filled with the last MA you learned?
And what happend to the previous stuff that filled the Cup?

Or doesn't it matter because it is impossible to empty the Cup 100%?
Again interested in hearing as many opinions from as many people as possible.

[KnightSabre]

I found that when I made the switch from kung fu to Muay Thai/Boxing I struggled in the begginning and had to "Empty the cup".The two systems were just so different,the stances and the way you blocked and attacked,I had to un learn everything I learnt.

Now I combine Thai with BJJ and because they fight in two completely seperate ranges they don't conflict with one another ,infact they mould amazingly to make a complete unit.

[apoweyn]

first things first: MMA stands for 'mixed' martial arts. not 'multiple.'

obviously, there can't be a mix without multiple arts, but it's still an important distinction. the emphasis, if done properly, is not on accumulating aspects of different arts, but in MIXING them into a coherent and effective whole.

"Personally, I am a firm believer in the "Empty the Cup" concept and thus have only studied/practiced 1 System at a time." -- red fists

personally, i don't believe that the empty cup analogy necessitates this approach. it only requires that a person approach new experiences without bringing a lot of baggage from existing experiences. and a person is just as likely to make that mistake having studied one art at a time as if they studied multiple arts at a time. perhaps even moreso.

someone thoroughly devoted to one style may have even more trouble divorcing themselves from its precepts and looking, without preconceptions, at a new style. on the other hand, someone who is fairly eclectic has had some practice at learning new material ON THAT MATERIAL'S TERMS, and then integrating it into an existing whole. (please bear in mind that i'm talking about a 'successful' eclectic, not a style jumper, etc.)

anyone can 'empty their cup.' it's not really a function of time spent in a given style. it's not really even a function of martial arts, to my mind. it's a general mindset. no different from allowing my experiences with one... statistics professor, for example, colour my interaction with another statistics professor. empty your cup. come at the new situation as if it were, indeed, a new situation and not just a continuation of an old situation. once you've addressed that new situation on its own terms, then obviously the knowledge gained will be integrated into the knowledge base of that old situation. it's not a suggestion to start over each time. only to approach things without preconceptions, biases, etc.

as far as i can figure, anyway.


stuart b.

[HuangKaiVun]

Empty cup or not, the important thing is that one knows what he is capable of and what he isn't.

[Ryu]

Ap, answered wonderfully.

The distinction IS important. Mixed martial arts not multiple martial arts.

The emphasis is in the flow from one art to the next. Forget about the cup for a minute (the best way to empty it) and break it down to the very basics. Fights are fought either in kicking, boxing, clinching, or wrestling range. Period. Unless fighting with knives or guns.

The point is to be as thoroughly prepared for those ranges as you can be. It means dedicating your life and art to those ranges. It means getting rid of complexity and striving for what works in those ranges. One usually likes one range or set of tactics over the others and gears himself more into that. For me it was grappling and ground and pound. But I know from training that there are much better wrestlers out there so I need other skills to compliment my ground base. I can't ground and pound a group of people, so I better have well trained skills to help out there as well.
I don't like the notion that MMArtists spend a couple weeks in each range and think they're good at them. That's ridiculous. MMA is dedicating your training to continually improving your skills in those 4 ranges. You'd be surprised at how potent these fighters get...

Ryu

[apoweyn]

cheers ryu.


stuart

[Ray Pina]

Great question. I won't touch it with a 10 foot pole here though.

My master does keep a waist paper basket at the entrance door, for evryone to drop their brain (and ego) in before entering class.

I try to do it all the time, but somtimes in my haist to join class (always late do to commute) I forget. But its easy to be humbled in this crowd quite easily.