Schematics for bagua deerhorn knives

[dedalus]

Anyone know where I can find plans for this weapon? I've found a local knife maker who is willing to produce a set for me, but we're both unsure about the measurements to which they ought to be made. I quite like the design of the blades on Beijing Bagua and the mandarin duck style on Tony Yang's site, but I'm hesitant to fork out for a set that might be (at worst) dangerous to handle if the proportions are wrong.

Perhaps one of you even has a good pair you could measure for me? Sam?

Thanks :)

[red_fists]

Q: Doesn't your BaGua Sifu have contacts for getting some?

Up to in all the Kwoons & Dojo where I trained gear was either organised via the Sifu/Sensei, or Sifu/Sensei told us where to get them when it was time to use any weapon, tool or gear.

Maybe your style prefers a specific type of Deer horn?
In which case if you bought the wrong one you wasted your money.

Just some thoughts.

[RAF]

The deerhorn knives that we use in Tony Yang's school come from Taiwan. This past year he returned and brought back a couple of sets colored gold. They are heavier than the silver and both have more of a 3 diminsional structure compared with the flat, handle-taped domestic brand. The grip handle on the ones from Taiwan are especially nice.

What we have been looking for are the deer horn knives that fit into the palm of your hands. They fit similiar to brass knuckles (except they have a small grip handle) and could be hidden when the guards would cross arms and hold them within the sleeves of their coats.

We know they existed, because Tony Yang brought them from Taiwan in 1980. However someone lifted them and we don't even have examples to have them made. A couple fo senior students said they were really neat weapons.

Good luck in your search.

[dedalus]

Those molded grips sound interesting, RAF. I haven't given much thought to this part of the weapon, but I assumed I'd initially use cord to cut down on the cost.

Good quality weapons are generally difficult to get in Australia, and importing can be hit and miss... especially after S11. I heard one distressing story about an expensive katana that had its blade filed by customs officers. The funny part of the story is that they couldn't take much of the edge off, but still...

Now that I have access to a smith, I figure I'll end up with a reasonable product anyway - so long as the plans are good ;)

[RAF]

I forgot to tell you. We have a very large size heavy set of deer horn knives made by the senior students in the 1980s (they ordered them in Taiwan, I think). They are great to train with. Not exceptionally heavy but about as heavy as a good decent, old time sword. You hold those and play the form slowly. when you return to the regular deer horn knives, they really fly.

I think you know the website already:

A student of Tony Yang's student put the piece together. http://www.bodymindharmony.com/deerhorn.htm
http://www.bodymindharmony.com/yuepix.htm

You can see the oversize ones and the ones that Master Su has in one picture only wrap cloth around the metal. The one's we buy in the states, have only tape.

You might also try having wooden ones cut. I saw a pair and they are cheap and good for students initially seeing if they like bagua.

What deerhorn set do you practice? I picked up a VCD from China on the deerhorn knives and its quite different from my own set. Also have a Chinese chapter written on a form.

Good luck in your search.

[Ray Pina]

Filed the edge off an old katana? Man, that should be some sort of crime punishable by caining.

[TaoBoxer]

There is no "standard" size for the deer-horn knives. The MindBodyHarmony site has an excellent gallery of the weapons. If you look, they vary quite a bit.

I have a design on AUTO-CADD very similar to BeijingBagua that I can have produced out of Steel or Aluminum on very short notice. If you're interested contact me at Bill_Lewitt@hotmail.com I wrap the handles in military style Parachute cord. They come out pretty nice. Fun to train with.

Are you looking for Edged Weapons or Training Tools?

Bill

[dedalus]

To be honest, I'm not sure who the deerhorn set originally came down from. I learnt it from a teacher who had been exposed to several lineages, although he was primarilly a Cheng student and did spend some time with Liu Jingru. We actually used wood cutouts ;)

Taoboxer, I'll drop you a line about your own knives... I think we've corresponded about it before, but I don't have any old emails so it will be good to discuss it again. I was really thinking I wanted a bladed steel set, but then there's that whole import problem. It may be feasble for you to make me some aluminium ones and they can replace my wooden training pair.

Thanks for all your feedback. :)

[RAF]

Kristoffer:

Do a search before you start calling the forum *******s!

Respectfully,

******* #1

[Kristoffer]

LOL

[RAF]

Not LOL, I posted those sites under this heading. The oversized deerhorn knives of my teacher were given as a gift by one of the senior students. I forgot where they were made, however, they are for training purposes.

Our first level of deerhorn knives is open-handed and we call it tighthand (hard hand or hard palm). We then combine the quasi-linear with specific mother palms from the 64 internal palm form. You can then add the weapon in both the linear or linear + circle forms.

Originally my teacher had bagua deerhorn knives (technically not the correct name but Chinese is tough) that fit within the palm of his hands. However, someone lifted them in the 80s.

The posting is by a student of a student (Dave Schenk) of Tony Yang. I have only seen a small piece of the deerhorn/sword fight. They are also very effective against a spear or staff. The hooked sword form follows the open hand form with slight modification.