Iron Palm Question(s)

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

I have been involved with the Iron Palm for a few years and since that time I have often wondered why the Iron Palm is still a big secret. I guess since we are not in fuedal China fighting just how important is it to keep it a secret? What are your feelings? Should we share the knowledge with people who want to learn? How does the Iron Palm rank on "today's street"? Just how invincible are we?

Damian

[dezhen2001]

well, if they canhave the time and dedication to train the skill properly, then why not? It takes a long time to acquire any good qigong skill, so that's the test.

david

[BSH]

Maybe your Iron Palm is different then the one I know of. If I were to have true Iron Palm, I could do a huge amount of damage to an opponent.

With that power comes responsibility. The responsibility is ultimately on the Sifu, and the Sifu should know who is deserving and will not abuse their power. IMHO, that is why the secrecy.

Problem is, people know the term and claim it for personal profit. From your previous posts, I have faith that this is not the case with you.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Appreciate the coment but, I think, what I am getting at is do the same standards/reasons for the Iron Palm apply today as they did back in fuedal? Is it necessary??

Damian

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

As was indicated by the other posts, the responsibility is to the population at large.. As teachers we are obligated to evaluate students for their understanding of appropriateness and honor.. To teach an avowed racist methods to injure or kill would, in my opinion, be contradictory to the wisdom of the Art.. During my own education in the Arts, iron palm was taught by invitation only.. and even then certain aspects of the training may be taught differently to students of differing character.. Additionally, there are few schools that have a complete understanding of "Iron Palm".. a lot of intricate conditioning, but little iron palm..

We train in a most amazing and complex discipline.. balance and character should be as much a part of training as the forms and conditioning.. Should "Iron Palm" be a secret?.. no. Iron Palm should be a reward.. a reward for perseverence, honor and ability..

Intent is the signature of the soul, examine one's intentions, examine your own.. Be well..

[Ray Pina]

My whole concept of iron palm has changed.

When I was doing S. Mantis my teacher began me on iron palm. Just blasting these solid bags with the palm and backs of the palms resting on a table, then the same with bags tied up beside me at head level and then hitting one suspeded on bunjies in front of me. Then jow. I don't know if this is "iron palm", but it made my hitting heavier at the time -- I was also fighting regulalrly then.

Then I got beat by an internalist and sought a friend for an "in" with my master. He told me I shoudl stop "iron palm" becaise my master was against it.

At the time I wasn't sure if he would take me, and since I was fighting guys who were all doing this training, it would be silly and dangerous to stop. So I didn't -- until I left and began training under my master.

Then a few weeks ago my internal master spoke about iron palm and the process seamed different. And he mentioned one should only do it leading up to a duel.

As for its place and secretness. Well, to me, there is more important stuff to learn right now then his "iron palm". That without his technique would be pointless. When the time is right the teacher will incorporate it I guess. I always trust me teachers. I'm sure they want to produce the best fighters/martial artits they can. They walked the road, they know the way.

But there are also a lot of bad teachers out there, and I have the ruined knees to prove it.

[D15062]

Great posts everyone!

I won't reiterate what everyone ele has said about the ethics of teaching and the teacher/student relationship. I'll just heartely agree.

As far as it usefullness. I look at like this
I view my technique like a bullet and training the right way and the training in Iron Palm is the difference in throwing a bullett at someone and putting it in a gun a firing it. The human body really hasn't changed since the time they invented Iron Palm, so it will have devistating effects when used properly. I've been hit with it so I can testify that it does still work.

Now the question is, why do you want to train in Iron Palm and do you really need to?
I'll go to the second part first, I don't feel that you need to train iron palm. Like I stated earlier if you train the right way you will develope more then enough power. Some of my instructors have never trained it and I've been put down on more then one occasion by them. Would I train in Iron Palm? Sure I would. I would because I would want to see how far I can develope myself, my skills and so I can pass on the tradition and information to future generations of willing and deserving students.

Just my penny thoughts

Dan

[razakdigital]

Here is a good article

http://www.blacktaoist.com/Ba%20Gua%20Zhang%20PalmTraining.html

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

D15062 - Enjoyed your comments. You appear to have the proper attitude and the right purpose.

razakdigital - I enjoyed the article. Very well written.

Thanks to everyone else for their insights and opinions.

TaiChi Bob. I'll be headed your way in May to Jupiter, Florida.
Dr. Lam will be certifying folks and I hope to be one of them.

Damian

[D15062]

Good artical Razik, very very true!

[fiercest tiger]

The secret is in the healing aspects of medicine and herbs, chi kung and meditation.

most people can slap a bag and have there own methods of slapping its the recovery and healing i believe that is secret.:)

just keeping it short!

FT

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

I believe you made a good point when you mentioned recovery and healing. I enjoy conditioning my hands in conjuntion with jow. I hope that everyone uses jow in their iron palm training. I wouldn't leave home without it. On occasion, I use a poultice. Poultice, in case you didn't know, is the leftovers from making jow. Mainly, it is good for recovery. Last but not least,Qigong and meditation should be in your Iron Palm training.

I read an article/thread that was talking about conditioning the fingertips. A Iron Palm Master once told me that if you train your fingertips later on in life you could go blind. It could be a possibility but anything can happen. But what I have been doing for about a year is slapping trees. One particular exercise I do is slap the tree with palm only and then rake with the fingers. It is an indirect method but it works.

Damian

[looking_up]

Can anyone tell me about safe methods of conditioning the seven
stars (head, shoulders, elbows, hands, hips, knees, feet)
without causing damage way down the road? I think one should
definitely condition the weapons when training to fight, but I
think it is not worth it if one ends up with health problems
(arthritis, etc) later in life. As mentioned earlier, I guess proper
jow and qigong training are important. Anything else?

Thanks.

[fiercest tiger]

hi ya,

Yeah we have poultices and pills, plus a drinking jow for iron palm, washes too.

you must take care of your hands or dont do it. we have 2 man conditioning drills for the 7 stars.:D

[D15062]

I haven't heard of a drinking jow before. I would like to know more about it, what's in it, ow it works and how nasty it probably tastes.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Interesting reply. I drink a special Tang for health, and chi circulation every day not just for Iron Palm training. Can you expound a little more on the washes and Iron Palm tang? Not looking for a recipe.

Damian

[Tai-Jutsuka]

How much jow do you really need to apply to your hands and how long do you leave it on for?

[fiercest tiger]

My IRON PALM wash is herbs boiled in water for 1-2 hrs and letting it cooled until you can place your hands in without burning them!

Pills are used more for serious injuries to the hands or chi/blood.

The drinking jow isnt bad in taste really, its great for the blood and chi. One of my students emailed me and he has been taking the internal jow and its almost healed up a long lasting injury to the thumb and has almost gotten rid of his warts on his hands he has had all his life!

As for leaving it on your hands, my class is 3 hrs long and i tell my guys to wash it off at least 1hr after to let it sink in and do its job. Remember meditation and chi kung is a key factor in the iron palm training.

herbs work in weird ways huh?:)

Im no iron palm master but i have been doing it since 1992, i can share my experiences only, get a doctor to check you out before doing it.:)

later
FT:cool:

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Appreciate all the info. Don't really understand the iron palm drink. COuld you email me with the recipe and, in turn, I will send you a recipe for a Tang I drink everyday.

My teacher instructed me after Iron Palm training not wash my hands or eat for, at least, one hour.

Everything sounds pretty much the same.

Damian

[Tai-Jutsuka]

Originally posted by fiercest tiger
The drinking jow isnt bad in taste really, its great for the blood and chi. One of my students emailed me and he has been taking the internal jow and its almost healed up a long lasting injury to the thumb and has almost gotten rid of his warts on his hands he has had all his life!

Could you send me the recipe for the drinking jow? It intrigues me. Thanks. My e-mail is amerikajin_yasha@hotmail.com [to all others who now know this, please don't send me mail bombs ;)]

[fiercest tiger]

after any kung fu training you should meditate and let the chi settle and store in the dan tian. I cant give you the drinking receip but on my website you can get one of our herbal washes!

i think eating after iron palm maybe not a good idea as you need the energy to heal rather then the energy to brake down the food in your guts. but i finish late at night and i havent got much time, so i eat after i meditate.

take care
FT:)

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Tai-Jutsuka - When you begin your Iron Palm training you should use , at least a capful, before and after your workout. After your workout do not wash your hands for one hour. And no eating for one hour as well, at, not a 12 course dinner. I will send you the drink just send me an email with your address and I will send you the recipe, as well as, a place you can purchase the herbs if needed.

Fiercest Tiger - "Those who can - do".

[fiercest tiger]

Do you have any iron palm exercises to correct the chi?

i do wanna give you a formula but i cant, well not yet bro!

ft:)

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Qigong exercises correct chi. I don't believe there are specific exercises for the Iron Palm. I have a few good Qigong exercises that assist me in my training.

Damian

[TenTigers]

you can make drinkable jow by taking tiet da wan pills and disolving them in liquor-I like B&B. There is a liquor called ng ga pei which has herbs for healing and training in it-get the one with the offering on the box(a whole chicken) the other brand does not have the herbs in it. Most likely when you go to the Chinese liquor store and ask for it,the guy will ask you if you do gung-fu. Most gwailos don't buy this stuff. Be careful-it's strong stuff-it is also referred to as tiger bone wine.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Thanks for the info. I will give it a try and let you know my results. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

Damian

[fiercest tiger]

There is a good brand of pills from woodlock, ask for dit dar yuet(pills).

chi correction meditations and exercises to get the chi and blood flowing and help releave the trauma from iron palm that i was talking about do you have anything you do after your conditioning?

ft

[Nexus]

I sold my iron palm on eBay.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

I do Qigong at different times during the day and I feel that I don't have that problem.

Damian