Judo vs bjj?

[Unmatchable]

I noticed Many Judoka feel that bjj has quickly surfaced and stolen the glory away from them. As a result, they try to "show up" the BJJer when they get the opportunity to train with one, even to the point of purposely trying to injure them. I have observed this inexcusable and rancorous behavior on more than one occasion.

I also heard that Judo culture conditions the individual to progressively greater levels of egotism. It is not uncommon for example for respected members of the Judo community to hold a grudge against someone else for years. This is a very big subject with many ramifications, so instead of articulating my own thoughts.

Bjj itself, is really old judo with a vale tudo component. All the grappling arts can learn from each and because they have a common base. There's no need for this constant belittling of judo and bjj. The reason why there's animosity with some towards bjj is because instead of just learning from their art and being happy with their training they, bjj feel the need to showcase this machismo attitude about being the be all and end all of martial arts. Some bjj are trying to bully other arts, start fights, discredit other arts and claim some superiority over all martial arts; especially the grappling arts such as judo mainly, as well sombo and japanese jujutsu.

on the judo forum on MMA.com it was always bjj people coming on the judo forum to challenge people to fights, make fun of judo and especially the moderator Mark Tripp, claim superiority over judo and all martial arts. Don't tell me you don't see a majority of bjj claiming to be the toughest and best martial art all the time. There are numerous websites with bjj that always seem to have the instructors and his students with their mean face look, challenging anyone and everyone to a fight at the drop of a hat for no reason other just to fight other martial arts and people like some kind of undisciplined criminal deviant. I don't want to be a part of the overpriced bjj schools who only want to bully other arts and always just want to create animosity between the arts. Alot of that bjjer's I see,this doesn't describe the all of bjj just some, only seemed to be concerned with fighting and especially fighting when there's no need to fight. I'm talking about a streetfighter attitude of starting trouble, not a respectful martial artist view of only fighting when there's no other choice, like the rivalry bjj created in Brazil between Luta Livre, Muay Thai, Judo and all the martial arts. In Brazil the main problems with fighting are caused by bjjer's, and I see alot of its practioners trying over here trying to create the same kind of atmosphere here in the US that stems from the problems in Brazil.

[jon]

The whole arguement is pointless due to one very important recent developement.
They all pail in comparision to the awesome power spectacle that is...
TAE BO!!!:cool:

mmmm Women in spandex:)

[qeySuS]

Well from what i've gathere that's basicly how the art was devlope, the gracies did this, they took all challange matches and advanced their art through testing it against others.

[scotty1]

"Don't tell me you don't see a majority of bjj claiming to be the toughest and best martial art all the time"

No argument from me there. See Jon's groundfighting thread.

To be honest though, I am fed up of discussing grappling on this forum, ie. rehashing the same old conversations again and again.

If you can't grapple, don't understand grappling, haven't had a go with a grappler, and you have to fight one - you're ****ed.

THANK YOU I GET THE MESSAGE!!!

[scotty1]

Sorry I don't know what came over me there. :)

No offense meant.

[Ryu]

Always seen Judo and BJJ being kind to each other in real life.
I think people take the "internet" as reality too much.

Being a "tough guy" is a fallacy. Someone will just shoot or shank you.

Ryu

[scotty1]

I think sometimes though people let their true feelings show on the net, and say things which they really think but wouldn't have the nerve to say in real life.

[scotty1]

Like next time I come to your country Ryu I'm going to trace you and ground and pound your ass you ****ing ****sucker.

See?
:D
j/k of course Martial Brother:D

[Merryprankster]

Scotty--you're quite the grumpy butt today--go have a proper snack. You'll feel better :)

Unmatched--I don't know of any BJJer's who dis Judo. All the ones I know think they complete each other very nicely. Most of us do think that even a very good Judoka isn't necessarily great on the ground, and that's true, mostly.... but most BJJer's are rotten on their feet. You get good at what you train at.

[Ryu]

ROTF!!! :D

[jon]

Im going to ask you a big favor, When i become an instructor i wish to use this very line on as the first thing i say to any perpective students. I feel it may save me a lot of time.

"Being a "tough guy" is a fallacy. Someone will just shoot or shank you."

You are a wise man Ryu, and i have a bit of a thing about the word shank. For some reason it always brings a smile to my face:)

[scotty1]

I'm feeling fine actually, I've just decided to say bollocks to tactfulness where its not appropriate.

What does ROTF mean?

I was just joking by the way....:(

Its just always the same conversation, grappling beats striking because....
striking beats grappling because......

But there ya go!

[qeySuS]

Shank kinda sounds like skank

hehe

[Ryu]

ROTF means "roll on the floor" (i.e. laughing so hard)

I neve thought you were offensive? :) Where'd that come from?
No probs from me, but you'll have to deal with the "bizarro Ryu" on your own. :D

Jon,
It's yours my friend. ;) Use it as you see fit.

Ryu

[scotty1]

This thread has gone weird on me.

Good Ryu - I'm glad you don't find me offensive! :)

Bizzaro Ryu, got a side line?
http://www.buffo.com/html/pix.htm

[Dark Knight]

"To be honest though, I am fed up of discussing grappling on this forum, ie. rehashing the same old conversations again and again. "


Scotty, you are right on this one. I came to this forum for a change of discussion. But its a big facination with BJJ or GJJ or grappling over here.

[Ralek]

Most BJJ blue belts can easily tap Judo black belts. The reason is becuase a throw will rarely end the fight. What do you do when it hits the floor?

Even if the judo guy manages to throw the BJJ guy, the BJJ guy will easily pull gaurd and submist the judo guy. There have been many challenges between judo an BJJ and BJJ blue belts have taken out entire judo schools.

But there are also judo and BJJ people who are friendly and who train together. Lots of BJJ people will train judo to help their sport jiujitsu. The BJJ guys who prefer to fight from top position will work on their judo throws so they can get a top position when they do sport jiujitsu tournaments.

[dre]

Didn't Kimura make Helio Gracie into his ***** when he fought him?

"The reason is becuase a throw will rarely end the fight"

If I use a throw , I'd prefer to throw someone into a busy street. If that's not available, droping someone on their head is nice too.

"BJJ blue belts have taken out entire judo schools"

Tell me another one. Lol!

[diego]

bruce lee by himself took out a judo school and thier greatgrandmaster.

[diego]

send me 40 bucks and i'll dub you the footage!!.

[Dark Knight]

"bruce lee by himself took out a judo school and thier greatgrandmaster."

Great Grand Master? How about a name attached to that.

[Ralek]

Kimura outwieghed Helio by 60 pounds and yes kimura did win. BJJ does the groundfighting component of Judo.

However Helio was not the best of the Gracie's. Kimura also fought a BJJ black belt named Santana who was the same wieght as kimura. Kimura lost. Kimura did ok agaistn people he outwieghs by 60 pounds. But agaisnt a BJJ black belt his own size he got beat up. Then Carlson Gracie beat Santana. Carlson Gracie beat the man that Kimura could not.

[Ralek]

diego. Bruce Lee took out a judo school? If i remember correctly Bruce Lee was defeated by Gene LeBell, a judo black belt.

[Badger]

Maybe if you put on a little makeup & a nice dress you can find one to take you out.




Badger

[Dark Knight]

"bruce lee by himself took out a judo school and thier greatgrandmaster."

Bruce was also taken down by Gene Lebelle, who was not a master at the time.

[Ryu]

Uh guys?

He's talking about Chinese Connection. The movie. He's not being serious. It's a joke. ;)

Ryu

[Dark Knight]

Uh guys?

He's talking about Chinese Connection. The movie. He's not being serious. It's a joke. "

Sorry :(

[Dark Knight]

Ralek, what about Ron tripp? He beat Rickson

[Xebsball]

"In Brazil the main problems with fighting are caused by bjjer's, and I see alot of its practioners trying over here trying to create the same kind of atmosphere here in the US that stems from the problems in Brazil."

Thank you, at least a newbie with a little bit of vision, finally!


"Kimura also fought a BJJ black belt named Santana who was the same wieght as kimura. Kimura lost."

Actually, no.

[Xebsball]

BTW, i advise you not to mess with the Bizarro Vale Tudo team.

[dre]

"Kimura outwieghed Helio by 60 pounds"

Maybe it was the Sushi.

"and yes kimura did win"

Good , he beat up that little Twerp. I have not pity for "little" Gracie (as you describe him) since he put up an open invitation to everyone - even portly Judo Masters. . .

So you're 'undefeated' and 'superior' stuff is utter bullcrap. Dissmissed. lol

[Ryu]

Hey who's "portly"! :D Kimura was muscle man!


The fight with Santana was a draw I think. It's on Kimura's bio, I can't remember exactly, but I'll check.

Ryu

[Ryu]

Yeah it was a draw. It went 40 minutes, but ended in a draw. So no, Santana couldn't beat Mr. K ;)

Speaking of crosstraining from the old masters...... this has to be my favorite part of his book!!! :D LOL!!

"In those days, there was a black boxer named T. He was a big man weighing about 100kg, and has won a pro title. He was the best boxer in the US Marine Corps. "I am no match to you in judo, but in boxing, you will never beat me." He boasted. One day I practiced boxing with him. Since I was trained in Karate, I thought "Even though I cannot kick as in karate, it is similar to karate. So, I would be OK." But the result was miserable. I took blows after blows. In a few minutes, my head started to "ring", and got knocked down. I also took a lot of body blows, and I was completely groggy. It was not even to be called a match since I closed my eyes even when his glove lightly passed in front of my eyes. This boxing practice was like a fight between an adult and a child. I covered my aching head and body, and thought, "If I did not know this type of fighting in addition to judo, I would not be able to defend myself from a danger." After this I asked him to give me boxing instruction twice a week. But the boxing "instruction" was a rough one in which I got only beaten up in a one-sided manner. One day, the state of taking so many blows really got to my nerves that I blocked his right punch with my left arm, lifted him up for Ippon-seoi and tried to slam him onto the mat. He then said "No Judo, no, no!" with a pathetic tone of voice. So, I took him down safely to the floor. "

Ryu

[Ryu]

I'm including that in my signature.

"No judo! NO NO!" :D ROTF

[dezhen2001]

"If I did not know this type of fighting in addition to judo, I would not be able to defend myself from a danger."

only 1 danger? :) I love that line...

david

[Ryu]

My friends still use that mistake in English.

"I need to be safe from a harm."

:D It's so cute.

Ryu

[Ryu]

Well actually, the "a danger" thing can be correct too.

Ryu

[dezhen2001]

i know what u mean Ryu :)

david

[dre]

Ryu :"Hey who's "portly"! Kimura was muscle man!"

Dre is an equal opportunity Basher.


"he fight with Santana was a draw I think. It's on Kimura's bio, I can't remember exactly, but I'll check"

What? But No one can defeat the BJJ gods!