Question on ChoyLayfut

[diego]

Where did the CLF, Creator get his Leopard Fist, Technique from?.
Do you know of other Styles, wich use this Method?.
Thanks

[extrajoseph]

CLF Pao Cheu or Leopard Fist came from the Sil Lum Ng Ying Kuen (Shaolin Five Animal Forms) put together by Bak Yuk-Fung and passed down to Chan Heung via Monk Choy Fook.

Dragon is the palm strike (fingers apart, slightly bent like dragon's claws), snake is the figer jab (fingers together and straight), tiger is tiger claw, leopard is the leopard fist and crane is the crane's beak.

JosephX

[diego]

Sil Lum Ng Ying Kuen and it's founder Bak Yuk-Fung, i have the 5Animal book by Doc-Fai-Wong & Jane Hallander, is that the excepted History/Legend? of 5Animal, i won't type the points from that book i'm curious on yet, as i dont know if my presumption is correct?:) .
When i asked a forum member who claimed lineage to this book, he said that set, is not CLF, but the Author learnt it from his CLF sifu's Wife?, Could you tell me about this, then i have some technical Questions, For all CLF Stylists!.
Thanks, agian & for later:cool:

[EAZ]

Originally posted by extrajoseph

Dragon is the palm strike (fingers apart, slightly bent like dragon's claws), snake is the figer jab (fingers together and straight), tiger is tiger claw, leopard is the leopard fist and crane is the crane's beak.

JosephX

As per our previous conversation a while back this is identical to our way of thinking and most Chinese martial arts in Vietnam to my knowledge.

[Arhat of Fury]

Extrajoseph,

Why is it that I see the Leopard fist show it self predominantly in the Buk Sing branches as opposed to the others?

Just Curious!

AOF

[CLFNole]

Arhat of Fury:

Tarm Sam, the founder of Buk Sing CLF was well known for his charp choy (panther fist) techniques. Buk Sing incorporates a number of different panther fist techniques most notably is the Tau Lau Chop Choy, which is a high to low or low to high combination that is very fast.

The style of CLF that I do which was passed down by Lee Koon Hung also has a lot of panther fist techniques in our forms.

Peace.

[diego]

does this history correlate with your branches?

[Arhat of Fury]

CLFNole, yes I am very familiar with these techniques. I often give my girlfriend the ol' Talou Chop:D
Seriously though, according to your Tarm Sarm statement, this is how I had understood it to popularize itself. Tunsing taulou and others are very fast and efective.

Diego, with all due respect, i dont dabble with CLF history and what is true(with all the obvious controversy). I beleive what I beleive and thats how that goes. People who think differently, well, more power to them- It doesnt bother me.

Amitoufu,

AOF

[diego]

okay can you guys name one style that doesnt have politics, i mean thiers like four seniors in my style, and suppossedly they all hate each other?, i mean come on:D

Anywho, i guess i should watch how i word this then eh?.
I really want to find out why styles such as bakmei, wingchun, choylayfut, and hunggar etc, why they hold the similar shaolin elders as thier main creators?. i was going to enqiure where the leopard comes from fully, as in my style of kajukenbo/hopgar, we have techniques in the 5animal book mentioned, except for leopard, from what i have seen, and i have always been intrigued by leopard fist?.

allright im confused, help where you can=
from what i have seen, my style has technique similar to hunggar and choy lifut, i guess where it came from, its said the kajukenbo founder Adriano Emperado has lineage in choy li fut, he did somework with a main? organization in hongkong in the 50s?, and suppossedly hopgar exchanged technique with hunggar, borrowing thier 5animals?

Would you kind clf practitioners, kindly post your knowledge of shaolin 5animals and how it influenced your Lineage, and if you know how it hit the southern family of styles in the era of ching, it would be great appreciatted.

[DRAGON32]

In the book DFW don´t say that he learnt "Ng Ying Kuen" of your teacher´s wife. DFW say that he learnt by your sifu, LAU BUN.
Ng Ying Kuen "was handed down to choy li fut Great Grandmaster Lau Bun by his teacher´s wife (Yuen Hai)"
Lau Bun tough to DFW the set.

[diego]

Can you help me with some info thats not in the book, is this the real 5animal set, according to the legend?.
Also, it says it went from 18 to 128 movements, and in the book thier is 262 pictures, corresponding to movements, besides the application. I would like to know what the original moves are, especially if they are in this books set?.:)

[DRAGON32]

I don´t know the set , I can´t help you.
DFW write in the book that the set is not a Choy Li Fut Set, but I think ( is my personal view) that all the book show are in Choy Li Fut set.

[extrajoseph]

I misunderstood your original questions, I thought it had 2 parts:

1. "Where did the CLF, Creator get his Leopard Fist, Technique from?."

2. "Do you know of other Styles, wich use this Method?."

I tried to answer your first question seeing I am doing CLF. I did not answer your second question because I don't know much about other styles and I was hoping others will help.

Now what you really want to know "is this the real 5 animal set (meaning the one you saw in DFW's book) according to the legend?"

This question you can ask DFW himself direct and you can contact him through his website. Afterall the guy is still alive and contactable, so why not get it from the horse's mouth? If you have an answer, we would like to know as well.

BTW, how would you define the term, "the real 5 animal set according to the legend"? To me, it seems there is a contradiction in terms in the wording of your question. If it is a legend, then how can a form from a legend be real? Just curious, no offence is intended.

JosephX

[extrajoseph]

As CLFNole said it already, all branches of CLF have a lot of Pao Cheu in their forms, Tarm Sarm made it famous but Buk Sing do not have a monopoly to the technique.

JosephX

[FIRE HAWK]

There is also the Five Pattern Hung Kuen Five animals in the books by Lueng Ting and Grandmaster Yuen Yik Ki .

[Arhat of Fury]

Extrajoseph,

Yes, i defnately agree with you on that. It was interesting that the movie "CHOY LAY FUT" from the lost series showed this as well. It showed the Futsan Gwoon using the leopardfist as well. It seemed to have told the story politically correct. I liked it. But Yes, as you said that every branch uses this, I think the Buk Sing use it more oftenly(from what I have observed anyway)

Thank you,


AOF

[diego]

do you know what is official website is?.

What im getting at is, i recently read at wingchunkuen.com, that it is probable, that the shaolin 5elder story is just that a story, and from what i get, certian rebel leaders, may have created this to build moral, in the fight agianst the ching dynasty government.

Many styles from southern china that spread to hong kong and the states, seem to have at least one of the elders, in thier history lessons, be it legend or verifiable history!. such as i think wing chun and hung gar make mention of a chi sim, but historically thier is no written account of him, so it could just be word of mouth legend!...dont qoute this last part, its just an example. Basically im just trying to better understand the makeup of ching and ming dynasty kungfu. If you can get me DFW website, i will be sure to post a follow up, as i know i will have technical questions:)

[JAZA]

Diego the DFW site is plumblossom.com.
I am from Chan family lineage, and we have a lot of drills with charp choy form the beginning, it's good to train your da bok se bok.

[diego]

Question?, How many Family/Branches are thier in the known History of ChoyLayFut:)

[bean curd]

pau ying kuen as extra joseph has stated is from the ng ying siu lam gee.

many styles both south and north use the fist in the manner of leapard/panther. the variation is more the point, as these come down to the faht, ging and faht ging that is used within the pai that uses it.

what i mean by this is CLF and HG for example use pau ying, or charp choi, however it is how the fist is employed which is cause for variation.

just because the two pai use pau ying does not make them the same, even if they look the same, it is not the same.