Stopping helping people (long ass vent)

[IronFist]

Maybe I'm just in a píssy mood right now, but I think I'm going to stop helping people work out for a while.

Ok, here's how it usually happens. People find out that I work out a lot, and that I know my stuff, and then they want to work out with me. Ok, that's cool, I don't mind but if I'm not getting paid then if they want to work out with me it has to be on my schedule. But I haven't gotten paid for training all semester because I've been too busy with classes and stuff. Anyway, I get annoyed by people's stubborn beliefs that they have been fed by Men's Health, muscle mags, Maxim, TV, EAS adds, etc.

Tonight for example, this guy who is my buddy says he wants to start lifting with me because he wants to bulk up a bit. He's a skinny guy, like 6'2 and probably 150-160? I dunno but he's really skinny. No muscle definition anywhere, but ripped ass abs. Ok, that's cool. Tonight was especially a good night for me to lift with someone because all I had to do was two sets of deadlift and that's it. So, I figured I'd have plenty of time to teach this newbie how to do some exercises. So, I taught him how to squat because he said he wants to do legs tonight. Now, in his favor, I must say that after I showed him once his squat form was near perfect. This is amazing, because most people take a few days to get it right. Anyway, after 3 sets of 10 he says "hey let's do calves now." Now, normally 3 sets of 10 might be good for a beginner, but the weights were 45, 65, and 85. And he got them easily. Then, when I suggested that he put on some 25's or something and he says "What, do you not want me to be able to walk tomorrow?"

What the fúck?! I'm thinking, "I know you did not just say that." Well, whatever, it's his first day so who cares. Then we go on to do seated calves of which he does one set. Well, the gym was closing by then because we got there late (I work out late so there's less people, and because I work out best at night).

Anyway, I was really getting píssed because I explained to him that my workout routine doesn't make sense to anyone at all, so just basically ignore it because what I tell him to do will totally contradict what I'm doing. (I'm on a PTP-based strength program, he wants to gain mass. Completely different programs). I told him I wait about 5 minutes in between my sets because that's how this program is structured, but he should wait no more than 1:30 minutes between sets. Remember I had only 2 sets to do? He says to me after my first set of DL "come on (said like, "hurry up!"), I need to do calves!"

Excuse me? Do not tell me to hurry up in between my sets, especially when you are squatting 85lbs.

But even with all of the above, I normally would have let it go, but I kept hearing stuff like

"I read in Men's Health that..."

Him: "When you do bench, do you do regular, incline and decline?"

Me: "Nope. Just flat bench."

Him: "Why not? Decline works down here :: points to lower pecs:: and upper works up here :: points to upper pecs::..."

After I explained to him a few ways to split up Bodybuilding workouts, he goes "I like to work my whole upper body in one day, two times per week, and I don't usually do legs (which is why he wanted to do legs with me)"

Now that wouldn't have píssed me off, but the way he said it implied that he was going to continue doing that after I said it wouldn't work.

"I like to drink such and such health drink because it has 24% of the daily protein allowance"

Then I explained to him the 1g per pound of bodyweight rule for gaining muscle, and how 24% of the RDA was like 15g or something cuz they think you should only have 60g per day" to which he said "yeah but this drink (Ensure or something) gives me more protein than I'd usually get."

Ok, nothing against this guy personally, because he's my friend and he's a cool guy, I just think I've decided that I am tired of explaining how to work out to people. I hear stuff like this from everyone I talk to about working out. I can't blame them for being stupid, because people are fed crappy information about how to exercise through various media, and why the hell should anyone listen to me like I have all the answers (even though I would say I know more than most)? Because seriously, I wouldn't put any faith in anyone claiming to know a lot about training. To them I'm no more than some football player who is familar with working out. So, why should I expect them to take what I have seriously.

Besides, I think the average person is content with doing incline bench and thinking that it works their "upper pecs." They don't want a basic anatomy lesson, and they won't believe you if you tell them otherwise.

I think for a while I'll just stick to working out for myself, and limit my answers to questions people give me to one sentence or less. Then if anyone ever says to me "wow, that's a big deadlift for such a small guy" I can say "must be these new EAS supplements..."

IronFist

[IronFist]

Yeah, that's my problem. I explain things to people in too much detail. Have you guys noticed? I write long ass answers to things on here all the time. And I bet 99.9% of people don't really care. I guess the reason I do it is because if it was me asking the question, I would like a long, thourough answer. I'd almost feel bad if I gave a quick cráppy answer cuz I'd be like "what if they were really interested..." or something.

Alright, I need to finish up a Visual Basic program. Later guys :)

IronFist

[scotty1]

The problem is there is no ultimate authority on training. So to a certain extent, everything you read or are told you do not believe 100%, unless you have seen some evidence, or it ties up with other things you have been told or read.

Now, I listen to everybody who has something to say on any of my threads. But half the time, you will get conflicting answers on the same thread. So who do you believe? I will follow the advice that is backed up with research, personal experience or a scientific explanation of why it is so. That is not to say the other conflicting opinions are not valuable however, because it is always nice to know the alternative schools of thought.

Your posts, Iron, normally have all three (personal experience, research and a scientific explanation). This is why people ask you things; the other guy that springs to mind is El Pietro.

In real life, if somebody is giving me advice on lifting, I will think to myself "do I like the way their muscles look? Are they strong? Do they have what I want?" And if it looks to me like they have followed their own advice and been successful then I will follow their advice, because that is evidence, in front of my eyes.

So don't fret it man. Like you say, why should he trust you over the mass media, especially as its the myths that are perpetuated in this way, not the truth.

[fa_jing]

Well, I can relate a little. I had this friend that always wanted me to work out with him, this was back in the days when I was lifting weights. What would annoy me is, he would ask me a question, I'd answer, then he'd go right to someone else and ask the same question. For instance, I showed him a variation of Dumbell shoulder presses where you use two dumbells and limit the range of motion, so that your forearm doesn't pass parallel to the ground. This concentrates the side delts, and the delts in general. I was shown this by an ex-world-champion power lifter. So he asks me how to perform the dumbell press, I show him like this, then he walks right over to someone else and asks if he can do it alternating one arm then another, with full extension. Of course the guy tells him that's fine. So I'm like, why do you ask for my advice, then not take it?
That's annoying.
-FJ

[Silumkid]

Don't sweat it too much, Iron. I know exactly what you mean. Here are some of the stupidest things I have ever heard while teaching classes:

From a female during an abs class: "I read in Muscle and Fitness that you are supposed to work your lower abs first." My response: After blasting M&F as 'Joe Weider's Steroid Musclemen and Fiction' I began explaining the anatomy...after about 30 seconds (or less) I could tell she was no longer listening.

From a man during interval training I was conducting: "I was told that sprints shouldn't go longer than 30 seconds." My response: Where did you ever hear such ridiculous advice? He wouldn't tell me and wasn't very interested in an explaination of VO2max.

From woman during weight day at BootCamp: "But I don't want to get big." - This while she was lifting 5 pound weights. My response: Began explaining testosterone and intensity...lost her interest after about 30 seconds or so.

My conclusion: People will ask you what you know to see if you have an answer. Many of them are so secure in their myths that they don't actually care what your answer is, no matter how much you "dumb" it down or how technical you can get. But since this industry pays my bills, I persist and endure.

Here's a funny story on the other side...I was lifting weights one day at my gym when I was approached by a guy who asked if he could give me some "unsolicited advice". I had just finished a set of bench press at 210 for 10 reps. Mind you, this guy looked like a mullet-wearing cancer patient, very thin, no muscular def., not an impressive or scary figure at all...so I said "Sure". I needed a laugh, what can I say? :D Anyhow, he proceeds to tell me that I lift too heavy and that he had "been watching me for a while and my workouts have no real structure". At the time, I was following one of Bill Pearl's push/pull routines. I just thought it was funny...he didn't ask what my goals were, what my routine was, anything...just claimed he had been watching me. Good thing I wasn't onany freaky supps. at the time...I may have just broke him over my knee and been done with it.

[PHILBERT]

fa_jing, but that's not always true. If you get advice and they don't have muscle, doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about. I myself can squat 300, calve raise 300, my abductors 300, and the outside of my leg around 250. Hamstrings, about 150. But it doesn't show.

I can only bench 135 (shoulder injury, 135 feels like 250). But I've done 500 push ups in less than 60 minutes, 750 in 2 hours (along with alot of other exercises in both accounts) and all this other stuff, like 25 pull ups at once, but I gotta do those at the beginning of a workout if I wanna get high numbers. If I work out then do pull ups, I can barley hit 10 from being tired. My problem is that I just don't get bigger, but I get stronger. I am not always against it, so what if I don't have huge ripping biceps, doesn't mean I still am not that strong.

IronFist, I myself enjoy reading your posts with the detail because then I can understand more about how it works. Say I ask "Do squats work the quads?", you'd give me a great detail post about all muscle it works, how it works is, what the quads are good for, etc and I like that more than the "Yes it does" answers.

[Hau Tien]

Ironfist... as a relative newcomer to this forum, I must say that after reading through all your old posts that were available (Yes... I actually went through and read all available posts before aksing questions ;P ), and seeing your replies to some of mine that a long and complete answer is very much appreciated. (by me, at least... guess I shouldn't speak for others:) )

In other words... thanks, and try not to let those who get you down keep you from sharing the knowledge:)

Hau Tien

[dwid]

The main reason why I post on this board is because I appreciate the thorough answers given by IronFist, Ford, and El Pietro. I'm a conceptual thinker, so it helps me a lot to know the "whys" behind the facts.

[Kumkuat]

Actually I read in Men's Health that... just kidding. Well, we're talking about stories, so here's mine.

I was teaching couple friends of mine how to squat by squatting myself. Now, I squat pretty deep and I know my form is pretty good. While I was squatting, this big guy wearing tank tops comes over and says that I'm squatting wrong. Well, me being an ectomorph and him being this big huge guy, my friends were like, "show us!" So that big guy showed us his squat. That guy went down maybe 1 foot. It wasn't a squat, it was more like a curtsey. I asked him why I shouldn't go down so low. And he said because it hurts your back. And well, my friends believed him because he was bigger than me. Of course, I can't remember how big his legs were though. Anyway, he probably had a weak back or something.

Also, I was working out with my other friend and he did crunches and leg raises. I told him there is no need to do that. But he told me that it was for his lower and upper abs. I told him that there is no such thing as lower abs. And he just looked at me and said sarcasticaly, "right, there is no lower abs." And throughout the day he proceeded to taunt me about my claim that there is no lower abs. I guess he can't believe how the ab muscle is just one big muscle.

[Silumkid]

Kumkuat,

That's exactly why I love playing dumb sometimes...after Mr. Gym Rat showed his staggering "frat boy" squat, I would have said something like "Oh...I guess guys like Frederick Hatfield and the like have been wrong all this time. So can you tell me why Olympic lifters go so deep?"

Oh well....if they aren't paying me to train them, I let them wallow in their ignorance most of the time, especially if they come at you that way. Now if I could get over this "nice guy wanting to help everybody" complex....

[inic]

heh, i go through the same thing constantly with people. but with me its not about lifting/working out, its always about dieting and what food to eat. i've studied nutrition and the digestive system for years now. i know how the body breaks down chemicals and nutrients.... but no one ever wants to hear that 95% of the food they eat is just ending up blocking their digestive pathways, ending up in the toilet, or worse, fat! gasp!
typical americans think its better to eat those health-no fat- no calories- no sugar- blah blah bars as supposed to fudge made from scratch.... if u choose the health bar, i feel sorry for u. heres a test, go eat a whopper, if u dont have the runs the next day, take a good look at ur diet. i test myself on this once a month, i love whoppers, but dont love sitting on the toilet 10x the next day heh. basically, if the ingredients arent from teh ground or an animal, ur body not gonna use it to its full potential. people just dont seem to understand this. I'm one of those Jesus-born-again freaks and the way i see it (besides scientifically), is whats better for you? something God put on this earth as part of the overall habit system, or soemthing made in a factory? even if ur evolutionist, u should still agree with that. Man, i talk too much!
but i know exactly where u comin from Ironfist! i just say "ignorance must be bliss... i wouldnt know"

[Qi dup]

I think just about everybody knows what your going through to some extent. Being a martial artist this is something you will definatly have to deal with sooner or later. Some people are just 'know it alls'. Crowds of people are the worst. I rememer one time, a friend of mine was going on and on about muscle cars and hemi's. Hemi's are great, but there not all there is out there. anyway he talked about it for ever and anything I would say he would just want to argue about except he really didn't know what he was talking about. I'm no car expert, but I know enough. he just kept getting the people listening involved and when ever I would make a good point he would change the subject.

This can be a good lesson for all of us. somethings we know a lot about, and other things we don't. But we sometimes have to try and not get so used to knowing about something that when something we don't know about comes up, we just try to act like we know about it anyway. does that make sence?

Ironfist, you have helped me out a great deal and I think you are the man!

[IronFist]

Thanks for the support guys. Of course, you all rule and I'll continue to participate in discussions here. I just meant I don't feel like helping anyone in person right now.

Any who insists that lower abs exist, just tell them to flex only their lower abs and leave their upper abs relaxed. That's what I say to people about upper chest...

Wait never mind, that's kind of hard. Try flexing just your biceps without your forearms become activated (put your hand on your forearm like an inch away from where it meets the bicep to check). Ok, I guess the person could use that as an excuse for not being able to flex just their upper abs. Ugh, this paragraph is going nowhere.

Later guys :)

IronFist

[joedoe]

I don't know about others, but I like to get as many opinions/ideas/theories about a subject as I can and try to work out what makes the most sense to me. It is not a reflection on how I view a person's expertise, but more a curiosity thing. I like to get different points of view. It is almost like a concensus and verification thing.

Having said that, this approach gets me into a lot of trouble with my girlfriend often :(.

[Merryprankster]

Iron,

Your posts are all spot on from what I can tell, very informative, and match up nicely with everything I've ever learned. Besides a general interest in fitness, I used to lift for wrestling and shot put and had to put up with a football line coach as a strength coach in high school, so I got a lot of experience in "different" lifting programs.

You should have seen my girlfriend freak when I put her on a diet of squats, deadlifts, bench and bent over rows, each done with relative infrequency--it's a low volume periodization job that works nicely when you have something else physically demanding going on 4-5 days a week (like BJJ or wrestling)-- when compared to the hyper-volume routines you usually see. She said she wanted to get stronger. I said "ok, here's a good starting point, especially considering your time constraints." She said "but (a friend) said that your program was all wrong, and that I need to do isolation exercises to see results." I almost crapped my pants. When will people LEARN?! She finally stopped freaking when she started deadlifting over 165. :) Now she doesn't argue any more--especially since she's supposed to hit 105 for her bench this period. I know it's not a GREAT bench, but for somebody who's never done this sort of stuff before, a three digit bench is pretty exciting.

[IronFist]

Your girlfriend is doing well :)

IronFist

[ElPietro]

Suck it up buttercup. :D

Heh, I hear you Iron...a girl here at work will always come to me with a new fad diet and ask my opinion...and i'll just shoot it down and she'll get upset and walk away. I try to explain to her that these "lose 20lbs in one week" scams aren't going to help you in the long run, and that a true diet is a lifestyle change not a temporary fix.

This sport is very simple, yet very complex at the same time. You can just go out and start lifting and get great gains...and for those that are happy that's fine by me. But many will read these mags and start taking the programs listed as programs for the pros, and not realize pros are most likely on gear, and aren't really using this programs listed anyway...the mags just need content so they get permission to make some bs up and put a nice pic of flex or ronnie beside it.

I haven't been around here much lately...been super busy with work, buying a new pc, searching for a new MA school, and of course weight training as well. I'm still trying to find time to read through all those soy protein articles. :) But I know the frustration you are going through...knowledge is knowledge regardless of physique, strength, etc.

Smart people come in all shapes and sizes, just as stupid people do.

[ElPietro]

Oh thanks to those who included my name among those that have helped them out. It's nice to know that some of you actually read some of the lengthy stuff I type out and actually may even apply some of it. :)

[Qi dup]

Good to see you back ElPietro. you are deffinatly one of the main people I look to for advice. ( I actually have some stuff i've been wanting to ask you guys, but I just haven't had time) Thanks for all the help. Even threads I didn't start I still enjoy reading.

[DelicateSound]

Believe me Ironfist, for every ******* overweight Yank that f*cks you about, there is some Martial Artist somewhere on this Earth thinking "Ah, THAT's why my [insert random routine] is failing to develop my [insert random muscle group] at the moment."

[hkphooey]

iron...you rock.

EP...you too.

don't mean to exclude others!

it's called throwing the pearls before swine. it's not meant to be an "elitist" statement. some people are ready for the truth and others are not. don't let it get you down.

[Spark]

Originally posted by ElPietro
Suck it up buttercup. :D

I'm still trying to find time to read through all those soy protein articles. :)



HAHA

I'm waiting! :D