Canada & the Chinese Martial Arts New Grading System

[firepalm]

For Canadians check this link to the new grading system for Chinese Martial Arts that the CCWO (Canada's only government recognized organization) is trying to implement in Canada http://www.canadawushu.com/grading_system.html

:confused:

[David Jamieson]

well...Sunny Tang is a well known Kung Fu teacher in the Toronto area. I've seen a few of the demonstrations his team has given both kung fu and lion dance and they are not bad at all.

I think they are attempting to ground the chinese martial arts here in the same way the Chin Woo athletic organization did in the late 20's in China.

Interesting to see how it goes.

peace

[Skarbromantis]

Sunny Tang has always tried to be on top with the Wushu,

Application Fee:
Level 5 and under: $100
Level 6: $200
Level 7: $300
Level 8: $400
Level 9: $500
Level 10: free of charge, but donations are accepted

Seems a little expensive, just for testing!

Skard1

[patriot]

The question is who is doing the evaluation. What level is Sunny Tang and how was he evaluated?

[David Jamieson]

"fees", well, it's usually all about what the market will bear.

As for the legitamacy of any martial artist, I have always been a proponent of the idea that the proof is in the pudding.

1.Are you getting stronger/better through practice?
2.Can you defend yourself/others because of this practice?
3.Are you treated well in the organization you belong to?
4.Can the teacher explain what it's about? (forms to apps)
5.Does the art you practice adhere to correct biomechanical principles?

With this main set of personal criteria, over time and with continued practice you will understand.

Good Martial arts is good martial arts regardless of lineage or style.

So, if you have someone with 5-10-20 or more years of experienecs in martial arts, they should be able to tell what's going on.

I mean how long does it take? Do you need to be 90 years old to understand one of the fundamental practices of humanity? Ie:martial arts / martiality or just plain having the bigger gun concept.

[mantis108]

I believe patriot made a good point about who elect the council? Are they automatic Grand Grand masters (100 pts)? Something not too logical here.

My concern is more about the future developement. The standard at this point is to vague and broad. An alarming lack of physical conditioning requirement (very much Wushu traits). AND no, acrobatics doesn't count in my books. So please don't give me that "oh they are great athelets" thing! If we are into martial arts then we should be martial which means there should be a martial fitness requirement (functional combat strength and impact conditioning oriented). This is the part where Wushu fails as a modern development. It totally disregards and therefore lack the sophisticate understanding of the traditional systems which have developed powerful training routines know as Gong Jia (non martial looking but functional combat strength oriented forms). We expect those Wushu people to grade older systems as well? That's FUBAR and adsurb. (pardon the languge.) I will go for any old system's training program any day because you can always find some great wisdom in there. I have look at the Wushu training program and I am sorry to said I don't see anything intelligent about it. As a sport program it's just might make it but as martial arts training, there is a long long way there yet. So I am not so sure if I even wanted to be grade by them. Just the training methodology along there is a big hole. But then that just me. Oh well...:rolleyes:

Mantis108

[mantis108]

I generally agreed with you but if I may add:

"As for the legitamacy of any martial artist, I have always been a proponent of the idea that the proof is in the pudding. "

Great point

"1.Are you getting stronger/better through practice?"

This is relative so a defination of stronger and better is needed. Bottom line martial arts has to be martial oriented period. That's why I think the teacher should and must tell the students in advance that the program is design for what purpose.

"2.Can you defend yourself/others because of this practice?"

Agreed whole heartedly.

"3.Are you treated well in the organization you belong to?"

Well, yes and no. We as martial artists must realized there might just be a point of no return. A good example is Bruce Lee. All I am saying is you don't have to be a sheep of the flock.

"4.Can the teacher explain what it's about? (forms to apps) "

Ideally, the teacher should know the systems like the captian of a ship. He has to know the ship and its contain inside out. He might even have to found a way to sail a broken ship to it destination. ;)

"5.Does the art you practice adhere to correct biomechanical principles? "

Agreed but again it is always more rewarding to shoot for the forrest not the tree.

"With this main set of personal criteria, over time and with continued practice you will understand. "

Good point.

"Good Martial arts is good martial arts regardless of lineage or style."

There are good ones and there are great ones. It's relative but I agreed with your point.

"So, if you have someone with 5-10-20 or more years of experienecs in martial arts, they should be able to tell what's going on. "

Ah what if he/she is blinded with an ego? Having said that I am not excempted from it neither.

"I mean how long does it take? Do you need to be 90 years old to understand one of the fundamental practices of humanity? Ie:martial arts / martiality or just plain having the bigger gun concept."

If martial arts can model itself after the western education system. It will only need 10-15 years to be a PHD of martial arts. But will it ever? Not unless MAist take themselves seriously and demand it. Personally, martial arts equates education not entertainment. But again it's just me.

Mantis108

[Dark Knight]

"Chinese Martial Arts that the CCWO (Canada's only government recognized organization) is trying to implement in Canada "

Just as a comment on this. In every sport that is part of the olympics or trying to become an olympic sport. There can be only one governing body in each nation for that sport. this waywhen you go to the World Games or Olympics, its through this organization. Judo, Karate has a governing body and Ju-Jitsu has one.
http://www.yjjc.org/

[firepalm]

In regard to Patriots question as to who is doing the evaluation, there is supposed to be a twelve person committee which is comprised of three reps from each of the four sub organizations within the CCWO. The CCWO is essentially made up of four smaller provincial level organizations they are groups headed by GM Paul Chan (United), Sunny Tang (Ontario), Fred Kwok (Western Canada) & Ken Low (Wushu BC). Each of these organizations elected three reps from within their ranks to sit on the committee.

[Lust]

Well I am too from the Toronto area (missisauga) and have been looking for a good kung fu shcool. I saw the ad for sunny tang's martial art centre and it looks pretty cool. They got two forms of martial arts ving tsun and wushu. I just wonder which one is better. I think that Jet Lee and Jackie Chan use wushu.

[patriot]

'......groups headed by GM Paul Chan (United), Sunny Tang (Ontario), Fred Kwok (Western Canada) & Ken Low (Wushu BC)'.

Again, my question is how do these people get their GM status? How were they evaluated and by whom?

[firepalm]

Patriot
In so far as my post goes I simply placed the GM in front of Paul Chan's name (as he is quite elderly and has been in the CMA for many many years). No one to my knowledge elevated him to some title as with a Doctor's degree. Many make too much out of this Sifu Master Grandmaster hiearchy... for many more traditional minded it's quite simple if you have students teaching you're a grandmaster not unlike being a grandfather when your children have children of their own. If you are curious as to Paul Chan in particular you can view his website @ http://www.hongluck.org/

With regards to the CCWO, they are to my understanding trying to implement a ranking system for the CMA within Canada. The ranking system is based on several merits including years teaching, contributions to the CMA & achievements (the individual and or their students). At this point no one has been elevated or graded (Sunny Tang included). The grading at lower levels (7 & under) is done I believe by a half committee where as 8 & above is done by the panel of 12 Grading Committee.

All members of the Grading Committee are selected from within the four well established sub organizations of the CCWO. To my knowledge selection of the committee was done democratically with each group having the equal opportunity to have three reps sit on the committee. These various organizations include many of Canadas top CMA teachers, again as of yet none has been graded.

Hope that makes it clear for you Patriot.;)

[Colin]

Hi,
I know i'm butting into something that doesn't concern me, but I was wondering:-
If one has to perform a single empty hand form, and one weapons/apparatus form to achieve 5th degree/level.
What do you have to do to achieve 1st-4th degree?

Or am I totally on the wrong track!

thanks
Colin.................

[Brad]

Yeah, that confused me too...