View Full Version : Please help me with some explanations

04-18-2002, 04:05 AM
Please could somebody explain/correct my definition of the following:

I know Jing is a store (finite) of something (what?) that you are born with, that is depleted by various activities. Can it be regenerated? And how does it relate to....

Chi? Post and pre-natal? I don't quite understand. :confused:

And Shen (spirit?) Is this linked to Chi and Jing?

Please help, as I am having difficulty following some of the debates on this board!

Thanks for your time


04-18-2002, 06:16 AM
Where's Nexus and Repulsive Monkey when u need them? :D
I'm sure those guys will come thru for ya!

Here goes as far as i can remember: I'm just learning these things now

Prenatal Qi: sometimes called 'true Qi' and it's what you get from your parents when u r born.

Postnatal Qi: the Qi you gather from the likes of eating, breathing, training - from around you.

Not too sure on Jing, Qi and Shen... i know they have to do with cultivation, kinda like 'levels' of cultivation maybe...


04-18-2002, 08:53 AM
Cheers David

As well as the questions I posted above, the question I would ask from your info is what is the relationship between post/prenatal chi and Jing?

04-18-2002, 12:08 PM
Scotty - i don't have a clue :D


04-18-2002, 04:51 PM
The lower centers is life energy given to you by your mother, or the female principle.

Shen is indestructable energy that is knotted inside your heart, in this context, but usually it is just called "heart". It is the combination of male and female principles.

When your lower energies enter your avadhuti (Chong David ?) it becomes wisdom.

Now for the Daoist views (correct me if I am wrong RM, Nexus), is it correct to say that Jing, when entering the median nerve (Chong??) turns into Qi. However, instead of using Jing, it can also be cultivated by breathing, eating live foods, etc.

Muahaha that is my lame attempt at comparing the two doctrines.

04-18-2002, 05:05 PM
nice one prana... i think you mean the Chong channel (?) that connects the Baihui and Huiyin points in the body :)

Now i understand more about how my hard qigong works, cheers,


04-18-2002, 10:52 PM
i thought pre-natal chi was jing. :confused:

Repulsive Monkey
04-19-2002, 04:03 AM
Heres the basic via my limited knowledge.
You are born with Jing given to you from both parents and the quality of it will determine your life long quality of existence. It is referred to as Pre-natal Qi OR Jing. This is like the juice in a bteery and therefore no matter what your habits are some things and certain intensities will wear it down. eventually it will wear down natuarally and physical death will come about. One can prolong and even bolster ones general health by adding to the Jing with Post-natal Qi. As rightly mentioned this is garnered from Internal exercise, meditation, proper diet, and most of all from the breathing. It can also be extracted from other living organisms but there is a morality to this, and should only be taken when offered.
Jing is our base level source of energy, crude oil if you like. When you practice internal arts/methods/meditations you can refine it into Qi which is what most organs run on an unleaded if you like! Then one can refine one's Qi into Shen which is the most refined and most subtle of energies.

04-19-2002, 04:50 AM
RM> a very good analogy, thanks a lot :) I had always wondered what the difference was between Jing and Prenatal Qi...


04-19-2002, 05:42 AM
Thanks everyone. :)

04-19-2002, 08:27 AM
Jing - essence - the building blocks of everything. It gets transformed into what the body needs.

Qi - life energy - many functions, flows in the Jing Luo (meridians)

Xue - Blood.

Qi is the commander of the blood. Jing is the Mother of Qi goes the sayings.

There is pre-birth and post birth for Qi and Jing.

Pre-birth is set and you get it from your parents. When it is depeleted, you die.

Post-birth comes from food, breathing, environment...and can be damaged by the same.

Jing is used for the body to grow and replenish itself.

Jing can also be converted to Qi so it not only replenishes the physical aspects of the body but the energy aspects as well.

There is no way in practical senses to separate Pre-birth and post-birth in the way things get used. This speaks to how losing Jing can cause shortened lifespan, injuries and illness doing the same, etc....you are depleting your Jing and therefore pre-birth Jing and therefore hastening death.

The more Post-birth you have, the smaller the percentage of depletion there can be - since you only have so much pre-birth, building up post-birth means you lose less of the important one...sort of like good and bad cholesterol....

Jing is also converted to xue - blood.

Then you have Shen - spirit. supposedly, you can convert Qi to Shen...to extend life and enlightenment. Shen is described as the light that shines in the eyes of a living sentient person.

04-19-2002, 01:05 PM
As most of the detailed questions have been answered here are some things to think upon:

Taoism is not the only practice that develops Shen. Buddhism which could be more appropriately explained by prana has practices that develop it as well.

Although I am going to specifically mention that Shen is something that Zen obtains without the physical practices of Taoism. Taoism has a lot of highly developed meditation practices, and the Zen practice is much more simplified, to such a degree that it's practice could be considered brutal in it's difficulty as one is just to sit and breathe in the sects that I am most familiar with.

The taoist practices could be considered a means of making the process easier or rather providing an appropriate foundation and building blocks, developing the superior will and so on.

As for the Universe, and cultivating life energy, the Universe will provide you with as much energy as you can cultivate and more. Never underestimate your ability to cultivate and the ability for the Universe (Tao?) to provide you with. In fact, one of the main purposes of postures in standing meditation such as WuChi is to condition the body to take that abundance of energy and channel what it cannot hold onto. Opening the body up so it can channel that abundance allows the body to retain what it can hold and let go of what it cannot ie. Overflow.

However the Taoist practices are also designed to increase the amount of energy the body can hold and give the body control of what goes on with regards to those energies.

Have fun.

- Nexus

04-23-2002, 08:57 AM
Thanks everyone, just one further question -

What is the Wuchi position? Is it just standing in a relaxed position? I do Zhan Zhuang, is the Lohan Embracing Buddha position Wuchi?

04-27-2002, 06:16 PM
In Taoism is what Lao Tse said in theri final chapters Tao Te King,
I've just fisnish read it, That's why I remember when I se your post Nexus:)

Walter Joyce
05-18-2002, 06:42 AM
I thought that certain taoist practices, i.e. ba gua circle walking, could also increase one's pre-birth or pre-heaven qi?
Any thoughts?

Walter Joyce
05-30-2002, 06:51 AM
What does this total lack of response mean?

05-30-2002, 07:31 AM
The idea of increasing pre-birth anything violates some very fundamental principles of Traditional Chinese Medicine and Jing Luo theory.

You conserve pre-birth. You follow diet and life regimen to control the post birth jing (essence) quality, and practice Qi Gong to strengthen post birth...

But in the theory, you can't isolate pre-birth from post-birth so anything that affects one affects all.

I would venture a guess that what is being said is a misspeaking.

Walter Joyce
05-30-2002, 09:27 AM
Thank you for the response. The misspeaking characterization may be accurate, but to add more context, gao style ba gua practices (and other styles as well I've been told)are divided into pre-birth or pre-heaven practices and post-birth or post-heaven practices.
While there are a number of explanations for this terminology, one explanation offered was that the pre-heaven practices (i.e. circle walking) would (in violation it seems of the TCM principle) increase your pre-heaven qi.
As I understood it, this meant that one could restore the qi to that amount which one was born with, and then increase that level.
As I didn't quite get this concept in a total understanding level (although the plain meaning of the words seemed simple enough), I thought I'd raise the issue, especially given the discussion throughout this thread.
Again, thank you for your response,