BJJ/grappling

[PJO]

All of the BJJ and grapling sites I've come across always have pictures or MPEGS of techniques but starting from the ground. I'm was wondering if anyone can suggest some sites where they show take downs or how they set someone up for a take down. This has always interested me because of the whole striking vs. grappling debate.

[Dark Knight]

Try judo sites

[dezhen2001]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

david

[Roc Doc]

I have been observing this for quite some time, now I am bored with it.

If you are interested in learning new stuff for your curriculum....becuase that's what it seems like, I would recommend you find a REAL school that teaches everything that you want. Let's remember that more is not always more. Actually less is more. If you were secure in the power of your techniques, you would not need to add outside things to your system.


Roc Doc

P.S. Say hi to Da Mo for me!

[anerlich]

If you were secure in the power of your techniques, you would not need to add outside things to your system.

You might not need to, but on the other hand you may have an inquisitive nature and wish to see how other people approach things.

I've never understood the attitude that because one trains in a particular system, that practitioners of other systems are seen as a threat to be resisted, and that interest in what's outside is seen as some sort of heresy.

Lose the siege mentality. Let other people think for themselves.

[anerlich]

Try wrestling or sambo sites as well.

"Pure" BJJ doesn't have much in the way of takedowns IMO. Most of them have been borrowed from other grappling arts.

[Roc Doc]

May you never be cursed by living in intersting times. Some people can say 1000 things with one note, other people can't say anything with 1000 notes.

Roc Doc

[PJO]

I'm also tired of idiots like you who don't let anyone post without jumping all over them. Anerlich has the right idea. I'm not looking for things to add to my curriculum I'm just curious as to how other arts approach things. We have no BJJ type graplers at our school and I don't know anyone who does it. I want to learn how different types of fighters set up attacks so I can keep it in mind when training. I know that not everyone will attack in the same way. My art is the most complete art for what I'm looking for. It has Chin na, grappling, and ground fighting from the mantis. It has hard and soft style, internal and external, evading and going in, etc. Everything I need. I don't need to go outside my art to add to my curriculum but I do think it is smart to learn how other arts approach things.

[dezhen2001]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

david

[David Jamieson]

play nice! :)

seriously.

There are plenty of good sites that are strictly about the grappling arts. Feel free to go through the Kungfumagazine.com resources to see what's there.

THere are members here who are active in the grappling arts and can turn you in the right direction.

I have a few sites in my links page about the grappling arts.
You can get there through my profile or just click the following link:

http://members.rogers.com/kunglek

peace

[Roc Doc]

Kung Lek,
i was being nice. Please, quit interferring and assuming things.

PJO,
I have learned mantis....studied in Florida. And, quite frankly, what that video portrayed, was NOT mantis. it had mantis hand positioning, but none of those were mantis techniques. And to say that i am an idiot is quite wrong. I just call it like i see it!

Roc Doc

[dezhen2001]

Roc Doc: :)

PJO: good luck with your 'research' and all the other things you are doing... you'll need it if you come up against anyone traditionally or MMA trained!
The best way to do this is to actually train with someone who does one of the systems you are interested in. Looking at books and videos won't help - theres no energy in them :) Maybe you'll find that unless you 'pressure test' your system, it isn't really complete... maybe in theory, but practical is a whole different ball game. Something slow drills and no contact can't prepare you for. Even iron palm and iron shirt are pointless unless you learn how to apply them in reality...

david

[PJO]

Call me crazy but I think there are probably more styles of mantis than the one you learned! The technique on the clip is a basic technique that incorporates a simplified footwork for students to have a solid foundation. Once we move into the black belt range we begin learning only the pure animal movement. Dezhen2001 as I posted before, I don't have access to any one in the grappling arts so the only thing left for me is just to see and hear what their principles and philosophies are.

[joedoe]

I think it would be foolish to ignore what else might be out there. At least if you research other arts, you know what to expect if you are faced with a practitioner of the arts you have researched. This does not mean you have to go and learn those arts, you just have to educate yourself on their approach. This then gives you the knowledge to try and formulate ways to counter their approach within the parameters of your own art.

[dezhen2001]

but like i said before PJO: you can't hope to train against something if you can't feel it. you can read all the theory in the world but until it happens who knows what ur gonna do?

it's hard :)

david

[GinSueDog]

PJO,

Try this site out.

http://www.geocities.com/josephgarza/archives

You may also want to look for a thread titled links to BJJ techniques or something to that effect.-ED

[Roc Doc]

Do you want to have an I.Q. test here, or do you want to forget that and carry on with Kung Fu?

Traditionally, in the study of Pathology, you start by learning what is normal, NOT what is ABNORMAL. Therefore, you do not spend half your life learning EVERY disease. In the light of what is normal, disease is easy to identify.

So, why would you spend half your life learning what MIGHT happen, instead working on what you have happening right now. ;)

So, my question to you is this. Why worry about what everyone else is doing, and why NOT work your hardest on what you have?

Roc Doc

P.S. Ask Da Mo what he thinks about it all!! I am sure he can give you a better answer than me! :D

[PJO]

Originally posted by Roc Doc

So, my question to you is this. Why worry about what everyone else is doing, and why NOT work your hardest on what you have?
Roc Doc
:D I do work hardest on everything I have but since this is self-defense it involves another person. This person could do anything. I try to take this into consideration in my training. Also I think you should take your own advice "Why worry about what everyone else is doing..."

P.S. You really impressed us all with your intelligence using big words like Pathology.:rolleyes:

[joedoe]

It seems you are not a student of strategy (to be honest, neither am I). Do you not think it wise to understand your enemy's weapons in order to successfully formulate a defence for them?

So to use your example, the way doctors and pathologists try to find a cure to a disease is to study how it acts, then develop a way to stop it e.g. vaccines, pharmaceuticals etc.

Alternatively, you could look at the amount of money governments (an in particular the US) spend on intelligence gathering. Why do they do this? Because it gives you an advantage against your opponent when it comes to conflict.

Same deal with MA - learn about how different styles fight and at least you are prepared for what might be thrown at you.

[wushu chik]

Originally posted by PJO
P.S. You really impressed us all with your intelligence using big words like Pathology.:rolleyes:

God...do you NOT GET IT? I can't believe you would pull this little tid bit out of your ass!

Why don't you JUST ADMIT IT. If you would just admit that you are doing what we are saying, we would totally leave you alone. I don't buy this line of Happy horsesh!t that you are trying to feed everyone. If you train hard and work on yourself, you will be able to TAKE ON ALMOST ANYONE. THAT WAS THE POINT. That was the WHOLE point that Roc Doc was stating.

Joe,
He's MY student. We train for just what you are talking about. BUT, we don't need to run to EVERY style to see how they do what they do for this reason. IT'S THE FIGHTER THAT COUNTS. If you work on what works best for you, and know how to use what you do, then all the rest is just trivial! Seriously, how many kicks and punches are there? Come on now. Give me a d@mn break. This is lunacy.

[PJO]

Originally posted by wushu chik


God...do you NOT GET IT? I can't believe you would pull this little tid bit out of your ass!

Why don't you JUST ADMIT IT. If you would just admit that you are doing what we are saying, we would totally leave you alone. I don't buy this line of Happy horsesh!t that you are trying to feed everyone. If you train hard and work on yourself, you will be able to TAKE ON ALMOST ANYONE. THAT WAS THE POINT. That was the WHOLE point that Roc Doc was stating. Why would I admit something I'm not doing?

[joedoe]

I agree with you to a point. I still believe that you are better off knowing what is out there than not. If you understand how a wrestler fights, does that not make you more prepared for that type of fighting? This does not mean that you should not focus on training your own art to be as good as it can be. It just means that you should be aware.

I think I would rather know than not know.

[PJO]

Thanks for the link, but this still shows techniques after the fact. I want to know how they get to this point. I for one wouldn't want to wait until they had their hands on me. What is the person being taken down doing with his hands? These are all things I want to take into consideration.

[Roc Doc]

PJO,
Whoa...if you liked pathology, watch this....



DISDIADOKOKINESIS

AAAHHHH HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, it seems as though your DORSOLATERAL COLLUMNS need some mild tweekage!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............

Roc Doc

P.S. Did Da Mo leave any messages for me?

[Ryu]

Hey you leave my online cyberwife alone!! :mad: No disagreeing with Wushu (only I can do that! :D )


mmmm I'm not getting involved with this one :D I do agree though that just seeing how others fight won't help you against them. Gotta test yourself against them. Get in there and see if you can wrestle with em, box with em, or stop them from doing both.

Right Wushu? :) ........... um...... gulp. I uh..... you know Wushu the dishes are quite dirty, how bout I clean them all up for you?? :D

.......uh...on second thought I agree with Wushu.
(am I a model husband or what? )

Ryu

[joedoe]

You are such a cyber-limpd!ck.

Such a huge cyber-thumbprint on your forehead :D

[wushu chik]

Awwwww....thanks honey. You are TOO good to me! If you are REALLY good to me, I will even rub your back!

And uh, yeah, my students are pretty off the hook!!!

~Wen~

[scotty1]

I think the point is if you want to learn about BJJ go on a BJJ forum.

Mixedmartialarts.com has a BJJ forum. Go there.

I log on, I click on the KungFu forum and I see another thread entitled BJJ/Grappling. My heart sinks. Put it in the other arts forum.

I agree with others that there is a place for this kind of knowledge (tested of course) but it is NOT HERE.

Everyone's ****ting their pants about coming up against a BJJ fighter, fair enough, but this little section of the forum is for improving your striking.

No smilies because I'm in a bad mood today.

[Xebsball]

MY SONG

by Jerry Cantrell
_______________________

She won't tell me lies
She want to see me smile, yeah
Every time you let it show
I didn't want to know
By the time I had lost my soul
You had to go
She come, in disguise
I want to say goodbye, yeah
Every time I let it show
You didn't want to know
By the time I had lost my soul
You had to go
You had to go
Love's strong, mine gone
Still have the time to sing my song
Love's strong, mine gone
Still have the time to sing my song
Still have the time to sing my song
Still have the time to sing my song
She got her own way
Same as yesterday, yeah
Every time you let it show
I didn't want to know
By the time I had sold my soul
You had to go
You had to go
Love's strong, mine gone
Still have the time to sing my song
Still have the time to sing my song
Love's strong, mine gone
Still have the time to sing my song
Still have the time to sing my song
Still not a crime to sing my song

[anerlich]

Some people can say 1000 things with one note, other people can't say anything with 1000 notes.

And IMHO you've yet to say anything useful to this thread. If you're going to quote Buddhist philosophy in your .sig, try to match with a commensurate, less pugnacious attitude.

[MA fanatic]

Good question. Go under www.mixedmartialarts.com You'll find your answers there. Once you get into the UNDERGROUND forum, you'll have excess to all Judo, BJJ, Sambo, wrestling, etc. etc. sites and information from some of the top grapplers and mma players. As some guys to send you pics. If you're interested in purchasing some video material on bjj takedowns there is plenty of stuff out there on the subject.
MA fanatic

[Roc Doc]

dear abs,

well now, then.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

roc doc

[Fen]

PJO-
If you need help with your school, just come out and ask. If you are just "researching" for yourself, please take this to a bjj forum. This is a KUNG FU forum, and quite honestly, I know I am, as well as MANY OTHERS on here, are getting extremely tired of seeing bjj, judo, karate, tkd, etc. If you want to learn about those arts, there are more than enough places to look other than here.

Anerlich-
If you want to babble about nonsensical stuff, take it somewhere else. YOU are just as bad as the others on here that keep feeding into lies, and bs stories. And, If you want to battle with Roc Doc, you'd better be packing a lunch! He has a PHD and is EXTREMELY educated on Kung Fu. So, before you embarass yourself, think twice.


Have a nice day!

[Roc Doc]

dear abby,
hmmmmmmmm,
i like a drink and i enjoy a good digital fight........
so i'm not really concerned with your humble opinion on the usefulness of my contributions to this thread.....

hmmmmmmm... well then....now.....then...... ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ..... hmmmmmm,

but, your point about my buddhist riff (on my sig.) is under consideration........


hmmmmmmmm....(echo, echo, reverb, reverb....)

buddha bless you,

rod doc

[MA fanatic]

Why are you guys sick of discussing other arts on this Kung Fu forum. This Kung Fu forum has this particular section for discussion of other arts. I'm not sure I follow this logic.

Roc Doc is a PhD? Well, now I've heard it all. I have been reading some of his posts. Roc you sound like a patient at a mental hospital I work at. I realize you're kidding around, but you do a remarkable job of it. Almost scary.

MA fanatic

[wushu chik]

ISN'T THIS SPECIAL? How sweet, we all come together, AGAIN...to **** in each other's cornflakes. :rolleyes: GOD, I love KFO!

I think what Tao of Wushu was talking about was....IT'S ANNOYING EVERY TIME WE COME ON KFO WE SEE STUFF ABOUT OTHER ARTS THAN CMA. since this is a CMA forum, it only seems logical that it's MOSTLY aboutKUNG FU. But, maybe it's just me, maybe it's just that i am old fashioned, or maybe it's just because I HATE STUPID PEOPLE!!!

~Wen~

[Roc Doc]

COOL!

Roc Doc

[Yung Apprentice]

I think it's good to be aware of other arts's "weapons". If you had an intruder in your house, would it not be better to know what weapons (assuming they had some) they were carrying? I'm sure you would have a different strategy for a knife than a gun or a bat.

[PJO]

Maybe you guys should be the mods for the KFO forums since you like going to everyone's post and telling them what they can say. I brought up the grappling isue in the Kung Fu forum not because I want to learn grappling but from the stand point of a kung fu practitioner training against different arts. I understand one should train for whatever but it seems that grappling is becoming more and more popular especially with a lot (not all) of meat heads that just want to fight. I want to keep different fight tactics in mind when I train.

[Fen]

pjo-

But you are not chinese Kung fu!!! You are American Kung Fu (Kenpo / Shaolin Do / Kung Fu San Soo and so on!!

Good Luck With Your Training If You Need Help Ask!!!


Sifu

[omegapoint]

Originally posted by tao of wushu
PJO-
If you need help with your school, just come out and ask. If you are just "researching" for yourself, please take this to a bjj forum. This is a KUNG FU forum, and quite honestly, I know I am, as well as MANY OTHERS on here, are getting extremely tired of seeing bjj, judo, karate, tkd, etc. If you want to learn about those arts, there are more than enough places to look other than here.



Am I goofy or is this the "Other RELATED Arts" forum? Why don't you go back to the KF forum if you don't wannna read this stuff, genius? All the arts you mentioned were influenced by Chuan Fa or other Chinese fighting methods. Most of the arts you mentioned are the updated versions of Kung Fu, with some other nations "spice" thrown in. Be cool baby, and learn, instead of closing your eyes (all 3). Love and peace increase when the sweat's released.

[dezhen2001]

that was written when it was in the main kung fu forum :)

david

[PJO]

Originally posted by tao of wushu
pjo-

But you are not chinese Kung fu!!! You are American Kung Fu (Kenpo / Shaolin Do / Kung Fu San Soo and so on!!

Good Luck With Your Training If You Need Help Ask!!!


Sifu Sorry Tao but it is Chinese Kung Fu. American Kung Fu or Kenpo is just a watered down version of what we do. Like I said many times before the techniques on our site are just basic versions of what we do. Once the pure animal movements were taken out of Kung Fu it became American Kempo like Ed Parkers; very hard style, so that is why our basic movements look like kenpo. Once we learn our basics we learn the true animal movements. Also we never claimed to be a traditional Northern Shaolin Art that's why our site says you will not detect any traditional movements, it is like most martial arts that trace their roots back to Shaolin. You can't really comment on our art because you have never seen the pure animal movement we do. We don't show that to everyone.
PJO

[PJO]

One more thing. It would be nice to be able to post questions without being followed around and attacked. Every time I post it winds up turning into the same argument. Does my art diminish yours at all? Does it threaten yours? I think the answers are NO! So why always on the deffensive? I don't even mention you in my posts. Lets just keep these threads to the topic they originally stated.

PJO

[wushu chik]

PJO~

What would be the best night to come up to your school so that you can sho us the "pureness" of your art?

And the only thing your art does is make all KUNG FU look foolish because you claim it's REAL. That's why we have a problem. It's not CMA. It's AMA. That's all! Get over it, accept the truth, and stop lying to yourself and you students.

Oh, and ONE MORE THING. We aren't following you around. But this is a KUNG FU forum. And we got tired of seeing LOTS OF PEOPLE posting stuff on other arts, not just you. There are lots of people out there besides you, fishi...uh, searching for other ideas. That's all. And you got ****y, so we did too.

:rolleyes:

~Wen~

[PJO]

Originally posted by wushu chik
PJO~
And the only thing your art does is make all KUNG FU look foolish because you claim it's REAL. That's why we have a problem. It's not CMA. It's AMA. That's all! Get over it, accept the truth, and stop lying to yourself and you students.
:rolleyes:

~Wen~ Where do you think AMA like Kenpo came from? I have seen kenpo and it's not what we do. It is a much harder style and has little or no animal movement. I've seen my teachers' crane, praying mantis, etc. it is completely different than any other AMA. Our art is between traditional Shaolin and the washed out AMA, but is never the less a Chinese martial art. You have to stop being so narrow minded. Just because something isn't exactly like your art doesn't mean it's not legit. No one art is better just different.

P.S. I don't lie to anyone.

[wushu chik]

And again, you STILL didn't answer my question!

~Wen~

[PJO]

I think we discussed visiting each other's schools and decided given the strong feelings, it probably wouldn't be a good idea. Besides I don't think my teacher would want to show people outside our art our high level material. I do wish you could see what we do with your own eyes but I think until tempers die down it wouldn't be good.

PJO

[wushu chik]

:) Good answer! And, I wasn't talking about ME, silly. I was talking about my Bro's...they are pretty interested.

~Wen~

[dezhen2001]

good to see

david

[PJO]

All the sugestions have been good but still most of these sites contain techniques starting with the two guys already locked up. Any of you grappling guys out there? Let me know, how do you attack in a street type scenario? How do you set someone up for a take down. Do you just take things defensively or do you attack first? Any info on this would be helpful.

[DelicateSound]

Let me know, how do you attack in a street type scenario? How do you set someone up for a take down. Do you just take things defensively or do you attack first? Any info on this would be helpful.

OK I'm a Judo guy - so my "balance" of thigs is a little weird. I've done loads of other arts so it all kind of meshes into one. The way I approach it is with an open mind. If a guy is in a position to be thrown, throw him. If not, unbalance him first.

The main problem with street grappling is getting past the fists. If you can do that you have effectively ended the fight as most untrained people stand no chance of falling "gently" on concrete.

Grabbing a wrist/arm is hit and miss. The best thing to do is to throw punches. If you throw a girly punch you might laugh him to death. If not you'll force him into an opening. At this point rush in for the clinch. Accept the fact that you'll take maybe a few hits and go for it. A nice O-Soto-Gari and he'll be all nice and unconscious.

But then I feel that "grappling" in a street situation should only be done at certain instances. Unless you're Wayne Lakin, Royce Gracie etc. Just do what is right for that instance in time.

[Leonidas]

Is everyone done whipping "it" out. Why is everyone ****ing on each other anyway?