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Longquan
08-31-2000, 12:59 AM
Does anyone have any personal experience with Jow Gar (fighting style, opinions on the system, noteworthy instructors in the US, etc.)?

I am looking for a new school -- recommendations are especially welcome. I live near DC and have noticed a number of Jow Ga schools.

Thanks.

longquan88@hotmail.com

wisdom mind
08-31-2000, 01:07 AM
be careful of contracts, i wish i had more info for you....

im in NY/from DC originally so when you get a chance, have an apple dumpling at the good Barbra Fritchies for me would ya!

i miss em so...

[This message has been edited by wisdom mind (edited 08-31-2000).]

MoQ
08-31-2000, 01:33 AM
...

[This message has been edited by MoQ (edited 09-01-2000).]

bigbear
08-31-2000, 02:40 AM
Jow Gar is a combination of hung Gar & Choy gar. They say hung Gar hands with Choy Gar legs.
Be wary because there are different versions of Jow Gar due to the fact that there were 5 brothers with 5 different versions. A man by the name of Richard Chin used to teach Jow Gar which seemed impressive, but it depends on what you want.
Check out their credibility first.

Wah Ren Jie
08-31-2000, 03:04 AM
There is a school Called Wong's Kung Fu Academy (not sure of the rest of the name other than Wong). Seen many of their students at tournaments. They look very solid. Met a few Jow Ga people, They all had the real thing. Good luck!!!

Je Lei Sifu
08-31-2000, 08:12 AM
Sei Ping Dai Ma;

That would be Raymond Wong, and his guys are very skilled..

Peace

Je Lei Sifu http://216.219.234.88/forum/roundtable/cool.gif

08-31-2000, 11:14 AM
I have to agree about Wong's Kung Fu Academy. Their students are solid as they get. Very impressive display at tournaments.

Check them out first thing.

Peace

HungFist
09-01-2000, 01:16 AM
Longquan

I may be able to help you in you quest for finding out information on the Jow Ga system. I live in the Washington, DC metro area & do not study the Jow Ga system but have meet some of there students who were all good people. Jow Ga is sometimes reffered to as HUNG TAO CHOY MEI (head of Hung, tail of Choy). The system was founded by Jow Lung and contains techniques from Northern & Southern styles. The current Si-Gung I beleive is Chan Man Cheung of Hong Kong (who I heard is very good). There are a several Sifus in the Washington, DC metro area teaching Jow Ga.

1. Sifu Raymong Wong (as Je Lei Sifu, Sai Ping Dai Ma & SLee said)I'm not sure were the school is know it used to be located on 2nd or 6th Streets, NW DC. However you can vist there URL at www.wongjowgakungfu.com (http://www.wongjowgakungfu.com) the site is not completed however you should be able to contact them thru email.

2. Sifu Deric Mims - Jow Ga Kung Fu Association, Langley Park, MD

3. Sifu Abdur-Rahim Muhammad - Hung Tao Choy Mei Kung Fu Academy, Washington, DC

4. Jow Hop Kuen Gung Fu Academy, Silver Spring, MD

5. Sifu Hoy K Lee - Yorktown, VA

6. Sifu Ron Wheeler - I think located in Lanham, MD

7. Sifu Hon Lee & Sifu Reza Momenan - Jow Ga Shaolin Institute, Springfield, VA & at NIH located in Bethesda, MD

This is just a breif listing I'm sure there are others. You can look up telephone # and address in the DC/MD yellow pages. Also look up Jow Ga on the Web and see what you get. My personal advise is for you to take your time and talk to everyone you can to get the best information and make your decision.

Good Luck in your search.

HungFist

loquito
09-01-2000, 07:53 AM
Longquan,

More than ten years ago I trained at thelate Sifu Chin's Kwoon. Sifu Chin already passed away, but there were several sifu teaching, maintaining the Jow Ga tradition in DC China town.

These Sifu were excellent, most of them are listed in the prior thread. Although I did not train in the style for too long, it left me w/ a very positive lasting impression.

In short, they train hard and fight hard.

Check them out and good luck.

Respect,
Loquito

thekuntawman
09-02-2000, 04:09 AM
raymond wong
202-234-1826

located at 2nd and florida avenue

he is dean chin top student. hoy lee is one of dean chin first students, but they were the same age, now he claims to be dean chins classmate. that is bull****, i was dean chins youngest student and hoy lees classmate. deric mims was dean chins student but he left when hoy and dean chin part company and became hoy student. he is now supporting the claim that hoy makes and he knows this is not true. hon lee is one of sifu oldest students. he left in the early 80s and study at the shaolin temple, he is very good to. reza and ron wheeler are my classmates, raymond finish there training. they are very good to. ron is a champion for a long time in the nacmaf tournaments. rahim is already an instructor when i train there. he is probably the closest to what dean chin teach in those days, very loyal to sifu chin. his school is next door to the republic gardens club (14 and U nw). he is a very qualified teacher. terry robinson (jow hop kuen) is one of raymond students, but i grew up with him. i was his partner when he starts that school in 93. he have an isshin ryu background, and he mixed it. many of my jow ga family do not like it, but check him out, you might like his style--301-565-9325.

if you want to fight, go to raymond or ron, or terry. if you want forms, go to deric, but raymonds boys has much stronger forms, but raymond will make you fight. all the others are very good, but raymond wong is the best of all of them.

richard chin in ny: in 1991 when chan man cheung came to DC. he said that richard chin brother study with him for 6 months (he thinks) not richard chin. he only learned the first form subduing small tiger. there are more than 30 in the jow biu branch. he told us that richard is not authorize to teach jow ga, but he told us to accept him as family anyway. richard chin top students were there. he made this comment at dinner at tony cheng seafood restaurant, hon lee translated. ALL the jow ga students heard it with there own ears.

by the way, he also ranks the jow ga men in the u.s:
1. hoy lee (as dean chin oldest studnet)
2. raymond wong (dean chin closest student)
3. dean chins students that stay with dean chin (ron, hon, rahim, reza, me, and some others)
4. dean chin students that left with hoy (deric mims, eugene mackie, they are the only one left teaching)

Longquan
09-04-2000, 08:34 PM
Thanks for the info.

I will check out the schools in the next couple of weeks.

christopher
09-05-2000, 11:58 PM
I have heard about a jow gar connexion in vietnam. Does anyone have any information about that? Or is there any web site on the subject?

cheers

ShaolinTiger00
03-21-2001, 11:45 PM
I'm curious to see what the "Community" thinks about Jow Ga (taken from www.jowtigers.com (http://www.jowtigers.com))

The History of Jow Ga (taken from www.jowtigers.com (http://www.jowtigers.com))

The system of Kung Fu known as Jow Ga (Jow Family) is also referred to as Chow Gar, Zhou Jia, and Chau Ka depending on the dialect or translation. Jow Ga has also been referred to as Hung Tao Choy Mei, which translates "head of Hung and tail of Choy.

It was labeled Hung Tao Choy Mei because the system incorporated Hung Ga kung fu's powerful upper-body techniques and Choy Ga kung fu's swift footwork and complex kicking techniques.

The founder of the system was Jow Lung. Jow Lung was born during 1891, in the Canton Province, Hsin-Hui Sheng Sha Fu village, China, an agricultural village for many generations. The people in his village adored martial arts, so Jow Lung starting learning Hung Ga from his Uncle Jow Hung at an early age. Jow Lung's training began with basic stances and stepping. Regardless of age, those who practice Hung Ga, suffer the most from basic stance and step training. Jow Lung never complained about the training and his uncle took a special liking to him.

One day Jow Hung told Jow Lung that he didn't think he would live much longer due to symptoms of an old illness. Jow Hung told Jow Lung that he knew a unique set of Pa Kua staff techniques that he wanted to pass on to Jow Lung before he died. Uncle Hung told Jow Lung that his kung fu technique had come to the point that if he learns the Pa Kua staff techniques, he will be one of the best in the martial arts field. Within one month Jow Lung learned the Pa Kua staff techniques. Shortly after Jow Lung learned the Pa Kua staff techniques, his Uncle Jow Hung died. After the death of his uncle, Jow Lung followed Master Choy Kau (Chi Ching Tsai Kong) and learned Choy Ga Kung Fu. It took Jow Lung only a few years to master the Choy Ga Kung fu because of his basics in Hung Ga kung fu.

At the age of 18, Jow Lung had a difficult time finding a job in his hometown through the introduction of his townspeople, so he traveled to Malaysia (Singapore and Malaysia were one country at that time). In 1910, Jow Lung and many others went to find work as miners in Kuala Lumpur. The bosses, who were described as gangsters, would often beat the workers. One day Jow Lung got into a fight with one of his bosses and fatally wounded him. Jow Lung fled to the mountains and found a temple named "Gi Leu". Because he hadn't eaten for many days and was exhausted, he asked an apprentice at the temple for help. The master of the temple Chian Yi, agreed to provide shelter for Jow Lung in the temple. Chian knew that Jow Lung had a natural talent for Kung Fu from the moment he saw him. Chian Yi taught Jow Lung northern Shaolin Kung Fu and medicine.

One day, Master Chian Yi called Jow Lung and told him, "I have passed on to you the north Shaolin Martial Arts and medicine, and now your skills are good enough to hold a special place in the martial arts field". Master Chian Yi then ordered Jow Lung to leave the temple. When Jow Lung went back to Kuala Lumpur, he felt like centuries had gone by, but he never stopped practicing kung fu. From continuous practice, Jow Lung realized the uniqueness of the three styles of kung fu he learned and decided to combine them into one, thereby developing Jow Ga Kung Fu. Jow Lung felt that he would not be able to spread his family's kung fu in Kuala Lumpur, so he went back to his hometown in China. From then on he vowed to spread his families kung fu. In his hometown, Jow Lung taught his brothers Jow Hip, Jow Biu, Jow Hoy, and Jow Tien the system of kung fu he created. The brothers would diligently practice.

They discussed setting up the first family kung fu school in Canton "Zhou Ren Yi Tang". Jow Lung would be in charge of teaching, while Jow Hip, Jow Biu, Jow Hoy, and Jow Tien would assist in the teaching. Eventually their family kung fu spread. In 1911, a commander of the military ordered General Fu-Lin Li to hire a martial arts expert to be the coach of the military by holding a public competition. Whoever won the competition would get the job. Jow Lung signed up for the competition. The competition was divided into 10 groups, and used elimination's to decide the winner. Jow Lung passed each elimination, and reached the final competition against one of the best martial arts practitioners Guan Gin Sze. Jow Lung defeated Guan Gin Sze and became the military martial arts coach. Because of Jow Lung's success, his brothers assisted him in teaching the military. It was around this time that the brothers became known as "The Five Tigers of Jow Ga".

At that time Jow Lung made it his job to solve problems and dissolve dissentions. The four brothers followed in Jow Lung's footsteps. In 1919, Jow Lung became so busy teaching that he hardly got rest. When Jow Lung caught a cold at times, he would dismiss it casually because he considered himself to be strong. Unfortunately Jow Lung's cold became so severe that it turned into pneumonia and rendered him incurable. Just as other heroes who have died young, Jow Lung died when he was 29. His death shocked the martial arts community. His students mourned him as if they would for their own parents and the society as a whole was at loss.

Jow Hip, Jow Biu, Jow Hoy, and Jow Tien mourned deeply for the loss of their brother. On the day of Jow Lung's funeral, they vowed that they would continue to carry out their brother's dying wish to spread Jow Ga Kung Fu, so that it would be noted in history. The brothers worked hard and opened up the 4th branch in Canton and Hunan. In 1927, they set up the 5th branch in Chen Tsun, 6th branch in Fo Shan, 7th and 8th branch in Nan Hi Shi Giao, and Guin Shan.

In 1928 Jow Biu returned to his hometown to set up the 9th branch in Jiang Men, 10th branch in Tai Shan Hsin Chan, 11th in Gio-Gian, students Zhu Hua and Lee Ngou (Li Niu) in charge. In 1929 Jow Tien went to Shi-Gian to develop and set up branches in Yu -Tsen, Du-Tsen, Nan Fu and Guan-Shi, widely setting up to 20 or more branches. By 1930, 80 branches were set up in Shanghai and led by students of the Five Tigers. Setting up so many branches in a few years is unprecedented in the martial arts field. This was achievable due to the Jow family leadership.

China experienced great political upheaval. Lee Ngou immigrated to Hong Kong's Yuan Lan head branch. Jow Biu followed and set up branches. Many other students of the Five Tigers arrived in Hong Kong later to help with the branches.

The Jow Ga lion dance techniques were even better known. Before World War II, Hong Kong held a huge parade during the inauguration for the King of England George II. The Hong Kong government sent people to Canton to ask a group from Jow Ga to perform for Queen Elizabeth's inauguration ceremony. Jow Biu led the group to accept Hong Kong's invitation. Since the war, Jow Ga's lion team has performed during any large scale parades in Hong Kong. When Queen Elizabeth celebrated her 25th silver anniversary of ruling, the Jow Lung Branch sent out a huge Lion Dance team of 300 people for the parade.

On March 14th 1961, Jow Biu passed away after a short illness.

*** My apologies for such a long opening Topic, but as I was copying directly from the site, I did not want to edit words that were not my own.

I only studied JowGa for 2 years before I moved and found another sifu who taught me N. Shaolin which was suprisingly an easy transition considering JowGa is considered a southern style.
After several more years training in N Shaolin I became interested in Sanshou and began to train ferverously. Many of those powerful movements of JowGa came back into my regemen once again.
and of course the love of the lion dance..

Many publications (kungfu magazine, etc.)have done articles on Jowga and my sifu Hoy Lee especially, but I have not heard of it mentioned in this forum.

There is much more info available but I've already made this post far too long...

A strong man controls others. A man who controls himself is truly powerful. -Lao Tzu

Fish of Fury
03-22-2001, 01:34 AM
i trained Jow Ga in my early days of kung fu and think it's a great style.as i understand it though, it's a mixture of both southern and northern kung fu.
i studied under Sifu Randy Bennet.don't know if he was related to the school in that link, but the logo looks the same so i'd guess he may be.

_________________________"I never drive faster than i can see...other than that...it's all in the reflexes" Jack Burton

Juggler
03-22-2001, 01:51 AM
Jow Gar = Chow Gar?

Now I'm confused.
I'm supposedly doing Chow Gar Tong Long!? :p And it's not what you describe it as.

Probably transcription difficulties...

joedoe
03-22-2001, 04:01 AM
From what I understand, Chow Gar Tong Long is a branch of the mantis style. Jow Gar is a different style.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

Shaolin Master
03-22-2001, 05:25 AM
Ah Chinese Surnames

Chow Gar Tong Long (Part of the Hakka Fists tradtition Chu Gar, Chow Gar, Jook Lum....that were disguised in name as Nan Tong Long).

Jow Gar - of the five brothers surnamed Jow as described in the first post here.

Both relatively different in approach

Regards

Shi Chan Long

lungyuil
03-22-2001, 12:12 PM
Jow Ga is a very strong system. I studied it for 3 yrs under Andy Troung & previously for a year under Randy Bennett. It is a combination of Southern & Northern Kung Fu as stated by others.

Fish of Death,
how long since you studied with randy and which school? Was it Surry Hills.

I must admit his method of teaching wasn't to my liking. I used to have 5 different seniors teach me the same form 5 different ways.

Randy's kung fu was very good from what i saw. The above paragraph was in no means an insult to him or his school. Just my opinion.
:)

Fish of Fury
03-22-2001, 12:39 PM
i was with Neil Elliott (one of Randys' instructors)...probably almost ten years ago.
i only ever went to the Surry hills branch for grading

_________________________"I never drive faster than i can see...other than that...it's all in the reflexes" Jack Burton

BIU JI
03-22-2001, 02:40 PM
I also started kung fu with Jow Ga and Hung Ga. Very strong systems, well known for their strong bridges (if trained properly,) I saw someone recently who claims to be well versed in Hung Ga but certainly didn't have the bridge in fact was hard pressed not to fall off his horse .
Has anyone trained both Jow Ga and Hung Ga's Tiger Crane form, is there alot of difference between them? I found Randy bennets Jow Ga is influenced heavy with Wu shu. I learnt under Andy Truong, a vietnamese linage if I remember correctly. ;)

ShaolinTiger00
03-22-2001, 03:17 PM
While I do not know First hand knowledge of Hung Gar, I do know that Many of the forms and techiniques Sifu Hoy Lee taught were Tiger/Crane, and it was implied there were from the Hung Gar base of the system.

A strong man controls others. A man who controls himself is truly powerful. -Lao Tzu

MarkS
03-22-2001, 03:57 PM
I trained in Jow Ga with Bob Stannells, my instructor used to visit and vice versa often when he lived in London. He learnt in Malaysia, and was married to the daughter of one of his teachers I believe.
He taught us Lion Dance many years ago, and I learnt two fist sets and a staff set. My instructor learnt much more. One of those sets is fairly similar to the Hung Ga Tiger and Crane set from what I have seen of it.

Mark

BIU JI
03-22-2001, 07:03 PM
I learnt both hung ga and jow ga but they were taught at the same time, they were so similar that it didn't matter. It's been awhile since I trained that I forget all execpt the first form(practiesed the most), though I still have them on tape, I'm glad I did. Always a good refernce point to have, seeing the mistakes you do.
I can't remember if I learnt the jow ga or hung ga tiger/crane form as I know I only learnt one, as students were given different forms at times. Mostly I started to focus on hung ga out of the two until I started dragon and went in another direction. Still think they're good systems, I respect all systems, trained properly they all work well(only some more then others).

PEACE ;)

lungyuil
03-23-2001, 12:56 PM
Fish of Death,
I used to practice with Neil Elliot on saturdays at Randy's school. We used to spar abit. Powerful guy had strong legs.
What do you train in now?

Biu Ji,
having trained in both Jow Ga & Hung Ga at the same time time I learnt both HG & JG tiger/crane sets and they were very similar.
Same angles, very similar techniques yet at either higher or lower angles.
The main difference is with HG you block with the 1 finger salute & JG the block was open palm & usually followed by a circle grab. :)

mysteri
05-16-2001, 01:31 AM
i'm currently studying jow ga with sifu hoy lee in VA Beach. though i've only been there for a little over two years now, i have found that there is GREAT potential and much to be learned through this system. sifu lee specializes in combat and i feel very fortunate to be training in such an atmosphere where it's emphasized. i agree (with no disrespect) that randy bennets kung fu must be influenced by wu shu in order to make it more attractive. though i would hope that though he may choose to deviate from the style in terms of form that he may remain true in passing on the many applications of these fairly simple, yet most devastating and lethal techniques. the forms i have learned are also most authentic because of the lineage. ie. jow lung-->jow biu-->chan man cheung-->hoy lee

RENEGADE_MONK
05-16-2001, 03:19 AM
You forgot to add Dean Chin to that list...Dean Chin was also one of CMC top students.. who came the US ending up in Washington DC on instruction from Chen Man Cheung to introduce Jow Ga. sadly he passed away in 1985 if my knowlege serves me right from a swimming accident.. I'm not sure if Hoy K Lee came to the US at the same time as Dean Chin or not, ask your sifu about Dean Chin :) ...I would like to correspond with on your training if you have the time

ShaolinTiger00
If you don't mind me asking you don't have to post it here just email me, where in dc do you live. The reason I ask is there is a Jow Ga school
here is dc. named Wong's Chinese Boxing Association. Raymond Wong is one of Dean Chin's top students that studied along with Derek Johnson, Deric Mimms, there are a few others, Most of the prominent Jow ga instructors are located here in the Wash Dc, Va , Md area...there's also the Hung Tao Choy Mei academy in NW DC ...the instructors name is Abdur-Rahim Muhammad he was a student of Dean Chin, Raymond Wong, and Deric Mimms....There's also Ronald Wheeler one of Sifu Wongs students, put out a set of instructional videos on Jow Ga produced by ESPY. Mysteri is correct when he said the techniques are authentic due to the lineage you can't ask for a stronger and recent family tree than that. Mysteri are you familiar with Sigung Chin, and Raymond Wong does your school communicate Sifu Wong, and the others besides Derec Johnson.

BIU JI hows it goin

[This message was edited by RENEGADE_MONK on 05-16-01 at 06:49 PM.]

mysteri
05-16-2001, 05:12 PM
renegade_monk,

sifu dean chin and my sifu hoy lee were best of friends. it was actually dean chin who introduced jow ga to the U.S. in 1960's. this is where sifu lee first encountered jow ga. he then became work partners with sifu chin and became a disciple of grandmaster chan man cheung in hong kong. he is still recognized as a 3rd gen master, which is why i drew the lineage the way i did. were i to go in to detail with the tree from the first genereation(which i couldn't BEGIN to do), it would far exceed the necessity to post it in the forum. again, my apologies for leaving out dean chin on the lineage tree. in response to your inquiry about my training, it is very limited. so i hope to prove somewhat knowledgable to you should you be hy si hing. yes, i am familiar with raymond wong and all of the jow ga sifu in the d.c./maryland area. we are going to be attending raymond wongs tournement in a few weeks. hopefully i will be able to make it because my funds are restraining me from competing. maybe i will see you there. i'm looking foward to your reply.

RENEGADE_MONK
05-16-2001, 07:13 PM
Good day my friend
no need to apologise, I will try to make the Tourney if not I would like to correspond with you
I'm quite sure we can learn from on another. I will be visiting Sifu Wong's school this evening. its time for my son to get involved, and start his training. feel free to drop me an email

train hard my friend

RENEGADE_MONK
05-16-2001, 07:16 PM
have you made a decision on studying Jow ga. if you need contact info I'll see if I can help you

mysteri
05-16-2001, 08:52 PM
renegade_monk-
thank you for your reply. i joined jow ga in april '99. since then, i have learned in this order under the request of sifu lee: sei ping kuen, small tiger two man set, plum blossom spear, SPEAR vs broadsword & dagger, small tiger, and tiger-tail broadsword. i am currently(well, when i can get back into my training schedule in the summer) trying to work hard on my broadsword because that takes the most strength for me to perform. so that will take some time. i am also working on a northern plum flower fist set(not the southern one) and staff. but my focus right now(or will be) to perfect broadsword and finish flower fist. then i will worry about finishing staff. what about you? good luck w/ your son....

"dum spiro, spero..." (while i breathe, i hope)

RENEGADE_MONK
05-16-2001, 11:41 PM
I orginally started training in Jow back in 86-87
for a brief period learning Sui Fok Fu- Small Tiger, or Small Subduing Tiger, and Tit Jin Kuen,
but basically I'm a novice when it comes to what i learned...... sei ping kuen is that "Small Hung Fist", how do you like the Plum Blossom spear sets? Moi Fa Cheung?? ...I just came from the school but Sifu Wong had an engagement today so the school was closed. But I'll be talking with him about 7:00pm tommorrow.

Peace ;)

mysteri
05-20-2001, 10:58 PM
sorry it took me so long to get back to you, i haven't had computer access in a while. not many people i know can name the forms in both english and cantonese. i love moi fa churn, it's my favorite weapon so far. hopefully sifu will let me learn the straight sword, it's very intriguing to me. the sei ping kuen i learned as my first form was different than the small hung fist that you speak of. sifu's daughter tammy does a form called small hung fist, so maybe they're just different forms. i only know two people who know iron arrow (tit jin kuen), it's a cool form i wanna learn one day.

ShaolinTiger00
05-23-2001, 08:04 PM
My apologies for not responding to your questions. I had thought this post dead, and had not been looking at this section of the forum.

Renegade, I used to live in the Eastern Market area and also near the U st strip at one time. I have recently moved to Bethesda to be closer to my work.

As mentioned in my initial post (see asterisks at bottom of jow ga history) I studied Jow Ga for several years and upon the recommendation of Sifu Lee, sought teaching by Michael Barry in Maryland, whom teaches the full spectrum of chinese arts including Shaolin longfist, but has an excellent reputation as an excellent fighter and now teaches Sanshou to a small "family"

As far as Jow Ga forms that I can still remember, I still practice them reguraly as they add focus and flexibility to my fighting....
please forgive me as I have combined in my head both Jowga and Shaolin Forms

Siu Hung Kune -Small Hung Fist
Siu Fok Fu -Small Subduing Tiger
Dye Fok Fu -Big subduing Tiger
Mui Faa Cheung -Plum Flower Spear
Fu Mei Darn Do -Tiger Tail Broadsword
Teet Geen Chune -Iron Arrow Fist
Fu Hok Chune -Tiger and Crane Fist
Jeet Chune -Intercepting Fist
Man Jeet Chune -10,000 Fist
Fu Pow Chune -Tiger and Leopard Fist
Chy Jong Chune -Advanced Attacking Fist
Gawk Jeet Chune -Square Patterened Fist
Jow Ga Sern Dao Gwan - Jow Ga double ended staff
Sum Jet Gwan -3 section staff
Darn Gim- Single Sword
Sern Bei Sao -Double daggers *** my favorite**
Kwan do- kwan do !
Mui Faa Sern Bin -Plum Blossom dbl. Chain
Gao Wun Dye Do -9 ring knife
dye pa- tiger fork
chart sern dao gwan - staff vs. staff
Darn do chart cheung -dbl. knife (broadsword) vs. spear
Sum Jeet Gwan Chart Che -3 section staff vs spear
Kwan do Chart Cheung - kwan do vs. spear

also please forgive my improper spelling of Cantonese words... I'm just a white devil

I'm very familiar with all of the Jow Ga schools in the area as my sifu has very close ties to Sifu Lee. Currently I have no great interest in learning more forms as I have studied more that I can ever possibly remember. I have an understanding of the Jow ga system and It compliments my Shaolin very well. Right now my passion is in Sanshou. unfortuanately many jow ga schools do not train Sanshou fighters (as of yet)

A strong man controls others. A man who controls himself is truly powerful. -Lao Tzu

mysteri
07-13-2001, 09:01 AM
please forgive me for not reading the post months ago. i have not been on this section in a while.

shaolin_tiger,

WOW! you have a VERY good knowledge of jow ga! it must've taken you at least 10 years to learn all those forms! WOW! i don't blame you, i think you've had enough jow ga to be considered a sifu already and start your own school! but i only know: sei ping kune, small tiger, northern flower fist form, spear, broadsword, staff, small tiger 2 man set, and SPEAR vs broadsword & dagger.

my knowledge is very limited, but ever increasing. i myself am trying to train for san shou. i want to go and watch for right now. actually, i do want to compete in this tounament coming up, but i know it will be very difficult. but even if i get creamed, i still want the experience. sifu lee will only train those in san shou who are interested. i wish i would've started training months ago. but anything is good. do u recommend i try for the experience? just a question for your opinion. thanks.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

thekuntawman
07-15-2001, 09:20 AM
excuse me i have to make a correction, my younger brothers.

ron wheeler and hoy lee are both dean chin students. ron, out of everybody you might meet today is sihing to anybody before 1981. hoy is everybody sihing.

when chan man chung came to the u.s. in 1991, he did rank the jow ga sifu this way: hoy, #1--as dean chin FIRST student. raymond wong #2, as sifu chin TOP student. theres no need to go on from there. now maybe hoy (who is my sihing from 1981) did study jow ga before he met sifu, but this is not what he was saying before sifu died in 1984. i think it was 1967 when he met sifu, but then he split and open his own school two blocks away as a competitor to sifu. when his school close down, many of his students came back to sifu chin (after leaving him) like, deric mims, eugene mackie and others. this is why my si gung calls hoy "dean chin's" student, and deric and eugene "hoy student". if you dont believe me ask rahim muhammad, reza momenan, or hon lee (who was translating) or ron or raymond wong. we were all there at dinner with si gung in 1991, miss tao's restaurant, when si gung said this.

no offense, i am a old student of jow ga and i been keeping quiet for a long time, but this is the truth.

if you like you can email me to sigma69child@hotmail.com

thekuntawman
07-15-2001, 04:06 PM
im sorry i mean ron is si hing to anybody AFTER 1981.

RENEGADE_MONK
07-16-2001, 09:52 PM
Much props....Thanks for the clarification!! ;)

thekuntawman
07-17-2001, 06:17 AM
siu hung chune is the name of small hung fist, the one that stars with the feet at shoulder with.

sei ping chune is the name of a technique in most of the jow ga forms.

here is some history, we only have a part of iron arrow because sifu forgot most of it. that form is now a "warlock" form. ask any old student what is a warlock form, its a jow ga secret ;)

when sigung came in 1990 or 1992, he told all dean chin's YOUNG students to call him sifu, because it was sad that he left us when we were so young. all the younger group split up between deric and raymond. this was a senitmental thing, it did not mean you should take sifu chin out of the family tree. which is what hoy and deric did. that was very disrepectful and i believe a politcs thing to say i am 3rd generation. which is wrong anyway. jow biu is actually chan man chung's SI GUNG. his sifu was still alive back then, and the only one out of our family to learn from him is raymond wong. this is where we got our advance staff (not pa kua, but advance version of sern tao gwun), 5 pattern fist, dy pa, 5 animals, and another broadsword form, there was no name, so i call it small tiger broadsword. but raymond wong met him and brought them back. anyway, si gung (cmc) is 3rd generation, sifu was 4th, and from hoy to me including raymond and everybody you met(i am the youngest one out of sifus students) we are the 5th.

mysteri
07-17-2001, 09:33 AM
whenever you get a chance, i'm sure sifu lee would like to know the name of the person behind the posts. so whenever you guys get a chance, would you please e-mail me your name and maybe a brief autobiography concerning you and your training. very respectfully requested and thank you for your input.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

thekuntawman
07-18-2001, 02:25 AM
maurice gatdula

mysteri
07-18-2001, 07:45 PM
your knowledge is insightful. it is always good to have another source to recall history. is ron wheeler your sifu now? do you teach in CA? either way, it is good to know that the family is active on the west coast.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

TofuMaster
07-18-2001, 09:45 PM
Can you guys tell me how many forms there are in Jow Ga and what are some of their names.
Any info appreciated. Thanks.

thekuntawman
07-19-2001, 01:52 AM
we cant say how many forms theres to jow ga because there are too many branches. in dean chins jow ga there is the standard 28 forms, then the four i mention, plus one bak mei form, one eagle claw form, and one praying mantis form.

sui-fuw
07-19-2001, 02:31 AM
look kunta jow is **** and then watered down.
sorry but you know jack.sorry urine

RENEGADE_MONK
07-19-2001, 04:51 AM
sui-fuw,
pleae elaborate????? :confused: :confused:


thekuntawman I posed that question some time ago about there being Bak Mei in our system being that Sijo did learn BM from his uncle before his Jow Ga training. there is also a trace of it in Sui Fok Fu

ZhouJiaQuan
07-19-2001, 04:59 AM
Hey you said in Sui Fuk Fu that is had a trace of bak mei, would you be refering to the Pheonis eye fist part?

peace

"Everyone seems so clever and self-assured.
I alone appear unlearned and original,
insistent upon a different direction than other people pursue." -Lao Tzu

RENEGADE_MONK
07-19-2001, 04:59 AM
humm....yes!! its after Tiger running down the mountain"

[This message was edited by RENEGADE_MONK on 07-19-01 at 08:11 PM.]

ZhouJiaQuan
07-19-2001, 05:52 AM
Thank you, i figured that is the part you meant(i dont know all the names for moves yet :(
i was not aware that SiJo had learned Bak Mei as well, where did you hear that?(just curious), interesting, always learning something new
thank you


Ps i jsut realized my last message seemed kinda wierd at the start, "hey blah blah blah, sorry im tired :)

"Everyone seems so clever and self-assured.
I alone appear unlearned and original,
insistent upon a different direction than other people pursue." -Lao Tzu

mysteri
07-19-2001, 07:22 AM
don't worry about sui-fow, he seems to be a local troll who prolly got offended when u said "bak mei" and don't know the entire system. anyways, i don't think that the phoenix eye fist was an addition by dean chin. i think it is jus from the northern shaolin of our system, but that is sure a good inquiry. i'll be sure to ask sifu lee anyway to double check that and get back to u guys soon. oh yeah, and i have heard sifu lee say on a couple of occasions that we have over 150 forms. but i don't know if he's referring to our branch alone or all of them. good question. i'll try and ask him soon.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

TofuMaster
07-20-2001, 02:02 AM
Thanks for the info Kuntawman. In the many forms are there ones called "Si Mun Pa Gua" or "kum kong kuen" or "Ng Jo Kuen" (sp.?)?

Thanks again.

sui-fuw
07-20-2001, 02:12 AM
believe you may.some more suckers.thats why theres so many con artists about.

thekuntawman
07-20-2001, 04:08 AM
sifu chin studied eagle claw before jow ga. he did not study bak mei except to exchange with a friend from new york who does bak mei.

i dont think the phoenix fist in small tiger is from bak mei. the sifu who gave us 9 step push (the bak mei form) only gave that one form except for some fighting techniques.

siu fuu you need to shut up nobody paying attention to you.

thekuntawman
07-20-2001, 04:54 AM
tofu i dont know about those forms, i know in the last couple years lots of our brothers been going to malaysia and singapore and china to meet with other jow ga, so maybe there's other kinds of jow ga.

but i never heard it in our branch.

if i am wrong, its because i havent been active with jow ga in more than ten years. i still remember the form, and i have a couple jow ga students now, but i dont keep in touch to much with my sihings. nobody i talk to is on these computers.

RENEGADE_MONK
07-20-2001, 05:11 AM
kuntawman,

That's interesting that you say that sijo did not study BM, but according to Sifu Wong when I asked about it, he study BM learning from his Uncle. :cool:

thekuntawman
07-21-2001, 06:16 AM
excuse me then i am wrong. raymond knows better then i do. all i knew about is the eagle claw sifu studied.

tnwingtsun
07-21-2001, 08:41 AM
What is "Hung Jow"??

mysteri
07-21-2001, 09:18 PM
if you are referring to something that you read earlier in this post, then 'hung jow' is not a what, but a who. jow hung (surname being jow) was the uncle of the jow ga system founder, jow lung. jow hung happened to be a hung ga(r) master. i hope this helped.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

Lost_Disciple
09-12-2001, 09:28 PM
Would it be too forward to ask what the 28 standard forms of the Dean Chin lineage are? Or at least the first 18?

Just wondering. :)
,

Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

RENEGADE_MONK
09-13-2001, 02:25 AM
LD,

On the second page of this post lists quite a few of the forms.

I think "Tiger Cougar" is not listed,

also Siu Hung Kune is the name of the type of fist we use General Hung's fists, same as used in Hung Fut. also refer to thekuntawman' posts on the same page, he posted pretty good info on the forms.

[This message was edited by RENEGADE_MONK on 09-13-01 at 05:51 PM.]

Lost_Disciple
09-13-2001, 03:02 AM
Yah, I was tryin to, I think something's broken with my yahoo account.
.
Thanks for the answer. I have entirely too much free time to be askin these questions. :)
.

Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

ShaolinTiger00
10-03-2001, 07:09 PM
ttt

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1758022&a=13553065&p=54576353

Lost_Disciple
10-04-2001, 02:15 AM
Hey,
I'll be in Baltimore on the 15th at around 3 in the afternoon if anyone wants to pick me up from BWI airport, and hang out before going in for more processing on the morning of the 16th.
I'll be stayin at the BWI Holiday Inn btw.
I'd like to hang out with you guys out there. :)

Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

ShaolinTiger00
10-04-2001, 03:08 PM
Sorry big guy, the 15th is next Monday and I'll be up to my eyeballs in work!

btw, you are relocating to Balimur (the local pronounciation) aren't you? When you get settled look me up! I'll show you around DC!

Lost_Disciple
10-04-2001, 07:42 PM
See I don't know...
This is the third time the NSA people have delayed me. The trip up there on the 15th is to go sort out something i thought I'd resolved 5 weeks ago; they just took this long to tell me my explanation wasn't good enough.
So unless they tell me I'm hired and give me a start date as soon as I get up there; I'm thinking i'll go with another company- that is of course if I can get hired by anyone else.
It's a shame though, cuz i was getting real stoked about going there; but nothing's settled yet, so who knows?

Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

RENEGADE_MONK
10-04-2001, 08:17 PM
LD,

good to see things are starting to move forward for you ;)

I wouldn't mind showing you around, but unfortunately thats a work day for me, so it would be kinda hard. But if you happen to stay a little longer just drop an email or post here

Disciple108
10-09-2001, 07:24 AM
RENEGADE_MONK: post from 05-16-01 06:19 PM
"Dean Chin... passed away in 1985.. from a swimming accident.."

interesting and euphemistic way of putting it ;)

I remember Sifu Randy, when i used to train under him, as a fast mover. We used to joke that if you blink, you'd miss what he was showing you. :)

Back in the beginning he used to teach a fair bit and do privates for a reasonable price. As the decade(s) rolled on, his wife and himself ran it more like a business and he stopped teaching lessons. Doing the occasional seminar on northern staff or wushu broadsword.

I was told by an elder brother that's still there that Sifu Randy had started teaching on Tuesday nights (surry hills) again for awhile (last year some time). Which was appreciated and much liked by the students. But essentially he administers the business and trains himself and his son Azuma (?how to speel?)

A lot of the seniors have left over time due to one issue or the other and the school consist largely of lower to medium "sashes" spread over Leihardt and Surry Hills.

Fun mix of weapons and empty hand forms spread over a curriculum that has changed over time and is much more compressed than it was. Spear appears to be taught wrong as it uses same hands as staff.

I found that there was too much emphasis on grading quickly and not on quality. That's not to say that there wasn't quality.

IMHO, more emphasis needs to be placed on correct training and less on grading quickly and money issues.

i wouldn't train there again due to personal (bad) experiences.

Aldo Santorelli who was a student of Randy's started up a school in riverwood... well, paid randy for a franchise. The name of the school is actually a registered business name. He no longer trains other students after an unfortunate accident that injured his back (rollercoaster ride at wonderland i think). The guy was one tough character. Easily one of the toughest ones there. (The other i can think of left Jow Ga after an.. incident.. and now trains with Chuen Chak Fei of Double Dragon fame).

As a side note, training Jow Ga in Hong Kong was a funny experience. Attitude was totally different as was the atmosphere of the school. weights equipment and weapons strewn over a medium size apartment. They were real tough guys over there :) (the kind i wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley).

Ramblingly Yours,
  Disciple108

<hr width="90%">
<<-- The person who is afraid of asking is afraid of learning -->>

Fish of Fury
10-09-2001, 05:16 PM
hey Disciple108
did you know Neil Elliot? i trained under him for a while.
what do you train now?

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

mysteri
10-09-2001, 07:05 PM
FYI- sifu randy has a website: www.jowga.com.au (http://www.jowga.com.au) if u were not aware.. since u trained under him, i jus wanna ask a question. okay, obviously, there is a contemporary wushu flare to his forms. could u elaborate a bit on his martial arts background? also, do u know of him being a fighting champion or anything? please don't take it the wrong way, it's just a question. i like to hear about jow ga sifu's from previous students. thank you much for your time.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

Disciple108
10-10-2001, 07:05 AM
was neil at leihhcardt or surry hills? sorry, i'm not familiar with the name. I do remember cassie (eldest), phil and thomas. some of the other guys and girls i used to train with are now seniors there from what i heard.

at the moment, i'm concentrating on fujian arts (though i'm still doing pinches and dashes of other things on the side :p)

Respectfully,
&nbsp;&nbsp;Disciple108

btw, i like your nick :D

<hr width="90%">
<<-- The person who is afraid of asking is afraid of learning -->>

Disciple108
10-10-2001, 07:23 AM
One of the students (Jeremy--and elder now) did the website awhile ago. Him and his wife train there. One of three students picked to be seniors about 2 yrs ago (another of the three left and is now a mantis practitioner, the other is still there and is in the latest hyundai(?) ad on tv :p)

The site reads like an upgraded version of Sifu Randy's brochure :D Nice layout from Jeremy though.

sorry, I'm digressing.. :)

Sifu Randy competed one time over in SE Asia in a tournament where he came third. I don't recall whether it was a international jow ga tournie or a general kung fu one. he was happy with that achievement and often said to me that the people that beat him live, breathed, trained kf all day long. he's happy to have his health and time with family etc etc.

he has also appeared in those kung fu get togethers from last century (when it was actually economically viable to do). There are videos out there of him doing spear and steal whip (at darling harbour or the ent cent.. don't remember).

As for his background, i learnt from another senior that it's quite... colourful. Something that i'd only hint at ;) and wouldn't be comfortable divulging. (Lest i offend anybody who might want to hunt me down and show me their exceptional jow ga prowess :p )

suffice to say, despite certain disappointment at his other traits, i do acknowledge that sifu randy is a good *jowga* martial artist if nothing else. he's quick and precise. his teaching techniques (when he does actually teach) are easy to learn from whether your an expert or a pleb. IMHO, he is one of the few teachers in sydney that actually appears to train in his spare time ;)

plus the lucky bugger has the cool plates KUNGFU on his black BMW

Respectfully,
&nbsp;&nbsp;Disicple108

<hr width="90%">
<<-- The person who is afraid of asking is afraid of learning -->>

thekuntawman
10-10-2001, 08:15 AM
randy bennett was one of sifu chin's best students in the 1970s. when sifu was teaching regular, he was very interested in perfection, and every posture in your form is like a pose. the classes were two hours classes, and most of the time the class did everything from a horse stance for about 30 minutes to one hour with no break. every person from that time until about 1982-83, has almost perfect movement, and are very strong. nothing like what you would see today. i think raymond wong is the only person around today who got students of jow ga who moves the same way, and fights also. most of the schools have one or two guys who have strong kung fu, but the last time i saw them ALL of raymonds boys looks like that.

back to randy, he was part of a group of young, young men, craig lee, royale __something, ricardo ho, and eugene mackie that were a kind of strong kung fu men you will never see again. sifu took them to taiwan in 1979 and they mop the floor with those chinese guys, but the judging looks like they were korean judges instead, and the us team didnt do so well. one of our people, tehran brighthaupt knocked out a guys, and he lost first place becuase he was "all strength, no technique". we also had many people who went to other places because the promotions is so slow. i not going to say names because you see some of them in movies today and other places in the magazines.

but for randy, his kung fu is very strong, and i dont know about this information that 108 talks about, all i can say is very few people dedicated to making his art so powerful will do a bad teaching just to make a buck. and yes you can make money teaching, and maybe for the people who are weak they get a different outcome from the training, but you cant raise a family on the few dedicated people who come to you, so you have to make your money someway. if can do it all again, i would put my money into a commercial school so i can give my dedicated students a good home, but instead i refuse students, i kick some out, and i pay for it, when it comes time to pay bills.

i would not hold it to randy for teaching the wimps wimpy kung fu, as long as there is the strong class is for the ones who want it.

but for wushu in his art, i dont know. but in the old jow ga school, when you learn northern you really learn northern and can do it like a northern guy. if you dont know the style, its easy to look and say "that's wushu!" but he got the main jow ga forms, then its still the real jow ga.

thekuntawman
10-10-2001, 08:27 AM
also, happy double ten.

i live for a couple years in taiwan, and that is a festival day for a lot of people. i dont know if many of you guys celebrate 10/10.

first 18 forms of jow ga
1.small tiger
2.gune lic
3.small tiger 2 man set
4.staff #1
5.flower fist
6.staff vs staff
7.plum blossom spear
8.big tiger
9.tiger tail broadsword
10.tai chi (peking)
11.spear vs. broadsword
12.iron arrow
13.3 section staff
14.small hung fist
15.double broadsword
16.double boradsword vs spear
17.bong bo tung lung
18.jeet kune or tiger and crane (i forgot which one)

the order is not important, but this is the order i learned it, and i think i was at that part somewhere when sifu died. there was one, he did not show the students, only to raymond wong, who showed it to me (i learned it with bong bo) it was a ying jow form that i dont have the name for.

Fish of Fury
10-10-2001, 03:17 PM
D108

Neil was at hurstville (he's been out of the club for years now i think)
i was interested in what you where doing cos i'm also doing fujian 'fu now (Ngor Chor)

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

ZhouJiaQuan
10-10-2001, 10:44 PM
Mysteri,
I too can see the wushu flare in his Jow Ga. Since i started these wushu classes my Jow Ga might get that way too, but im trying to not let it affect me(although maybe a bit wont hurt the northern flower fist :) ). Anyway how did he get that drop/slant stance(the one on the weapons page), i want to be able to do that :)

What happend saturday? I should be going to sifu charles' school next week too. i look fwd to seeing how his school is.

peace,
Wally

"Everyone seems so clever and self-assured.
I alone appear unlearned and original,
insistent upon a different direction than other people pursue." -Lao Tzu

mysteri
10-11-2001, 06:16 AM
thekuntawman: as always, ur an enlightening one for youngsters like me. i'm always trying to improve myself(esp jow ga combat) so tha i might one day be good enough to fight @ the international level and become a champion. though i know that it is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder than it seems!

zhoujiaquan: ey man, i missed last sat too, had family priorities. as always, family first. but tues and thurs. i agree w/disciple and kuntawman though. i understand what kind of training adn dedication is necessary to become great, but of course not everyone pays to learn kung fu with those same goals in mind. so u can't conduct class as u would have 30 years ago. that's very frustrating and i can see it in sifu's face all the time. right now, i'm jus tryin to start small, specialize, and build. but one day, i'll get there!(hopefully while i'm still young though!)

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

ZhouJiaQuan
10-11-2001, 04:57 PM
Mysteri, i can see it in sifu's face too.
You have to support your family and self. When you teach kung fu for a living you have to get students and not scare them away. hence you cant teach as you would if your livly hood didnt depend on it. I would be frustrated too.

Dont worry Mysteri you'll get to the international level.
But you will never get my cat stance :) haha
j/k :) (i got corrected cause it was too low, go figure eh, so now i gatta make just a tid bit higher)

anyway i gatta go decied wether or not to skip class :)

peace,
wally

"Everyone seems so clever and self-assured.
I alone appear unlearned and original,
insistent upon a different direction than other people pursue." -Lao Tzu

thekuntawman
10-11-2001, 05:19 PM
hey i am happy to see all you guys getting along like family. that something we never had, even when dean chin was alive because there was competition. when sifu was alive, we acted like family because he made us act like family, but there was basicly two groups, the ones who always been with sifu, then the ones who left when hoy split from sifu and then came back. the bad feeling was always there. when sifu die there was no reason to act like they liked each other.

i just want to see that everybody can exhange info, and acknowledge that DEAN CHIN, not hoy, is the one who brought jow ga to the US. since you guys are all east coast you should hook up together. its something raymond tried to do with his generation and my generation, but everyone was still angry from hoys magazine articles and the "instant jow ga sifus" that were made. a good person to contact if you like to do this is rahim muhammad, reza momenan, and ron wheeler. those i think are the main ones who will help and they wont try to use it for politics (i dont think raymond will do that either, but so many people went to him, learned whatever their teacher did not know, then left, so he really does not trust people for a good reason, and plus you dont want to turn it into a "raymond wong" thing, since people are jealous that raymond is sifu successor).

mysteri
10-12-2001, 07:31 AM
zhoujia- LOL.. wasn't I the one who pointed out the problem with your stance? yeah, don't let those wushu guys fill ur head w/ nonsense there! PLEASE don't let them teach u any combat! that's NOT what they're there for! :o) but on the real, have fun out there, but make sure u remember to keep the stuff seperate (though i'm sure the flare will help out that northern flower fist :o)

thekuntawman- i understand where ur coming from. i try to understand now that the business of the past is not of my concern. it is relevant to recognize every jow ga instructor and it is also important for everyone to recognize that dean chin brought jow ga to the U.S., which he is recognized for and noone denies.i understand to a certain degree the issues of the past, and even as u said competition seemed to be obviously existent among that generation of people. but i would hope that the jow ga clan of the future (my generation) will not hold grudges for many decades like the hung gar, wing chun, and other families of great kung fu styles. should there ever be a standard jow ga? no. there are way too many branches for everyone to agree on this. but i would hope that in the future would be able to accept and learn from eachother, and to be open-minded and respectful of other's jow ga education. i personally would not ever keep food for myself and not share with my siblings because i think that is very selfish. likewise, i would like to share my knowledge with other jow ga family members once i aquire a lot more of it. i would never insist that my way is the "right" way, but the way i have learned it and i would like to understand their way as well. conclusively, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he doesn't exist! and one of his greatest tools by far is jealousy. obviously this green-eyed monster has wreaked havoc for far too long and i for one do not paln to allow him to wreak havoc in my life and in the future. but i don't have much confidence that this will balance out in this generation because the dilemma seems to be pretty fresh still with the sifu's, or else everyone would like everyone. later!

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

ZhouJiaQuan
10-14-2001, 05:35 AM
lol, yea i do remeber you talking bad about my stance :) its all good, i'll get it. Im learning a compulsery form, i dunno what it is though. its nothern but its not the changchuan compulsary. Coach Zhou just calls it compulsary. I dunno about combat, he has shown some nasty application. Another of his students was doing Wu style tai chi double broadsword, i had never even heard of it before. I guess coach does alot of internal as well becuase alot of the last class we were doing what seemed to be alot of xingyi. anyway im rambling all of topic...
i might be back this weekend, i dunno yet. so i might see ya around. i saw you on willie's page too, student of the month :)
peace,
Wally

"Everyone seems so clever and self-assured.
I alone appear unlearned and original,
insistent upon a different direction than other people pursue." -Lao Tzu

prana
10-14-2001, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Jow Ga has also been referred to as Hung Tao Choy Mei, which translates "head of Hung and tail of Choy[/quote]

Hung Tao = read beans
Choy Mei = vegetable smell

I know, bad . My apologies

thekuntawman
10-14-2001, 08:59 AM
hi mysteri,
i disagree only to one thing, that your generation will end the separation. all its going to take is for you guys to make a commitment to get together at least one time a year, just you guys, no instructors. get to know each other, workout, spar, exchnage your infos. after that you guys will respect each other because you know each other weakness and strength, but you either take from each others strength and build up each others weakness.

the ture weak people leave a metting with family and go "man that guys sucked! did you see his weak hand technique?" and so on. because when you meet a hung ga person and he says "i know so and so from jow ga, do you know him?" but then you talk bad about him, guess what. the hung guy goes back to HIS close brothers and say "those jow ga guys suck. they even argue like little girls over nothing because that hole style suchs". you see its jow ga against hung fut, vs tien shan pai, vs praying mantis, etc. even if they smile in your face, when you compete they want their boy to beat you. bottom line, jow ga is one of the first kung fu schools in the east coast, but its not the most respected, becuase everybody knows jow ga business. you cant run a family like that. because even the one who is strong looks weak if his brother looks weak. even if his brother is strong, but they dont do anything together, they still look weak because they never have big numbers.

if you only care about your own organization, fine, but take off the jow ga in the patch. (this is not to mysteri but anybody who is not interested to what i am saying). the jow family cant afford to have people like that.

jow ga is suppose to have its own competition in america by now. jow ga should be a division in kung fu tournaments now. gloria grimes jow ga picnic every may is suppose to bring people all the way from california and australia each year. but it does not, because you have yours and i have mine. i predict jow ga will be like most philippine martial arts in 20 years, you learn it from your dad in the back yard or a garage. you watch, if your generation cant get it together. either that or someone will take jow ga and make it into a commercial instant sifu style like ****** (i did that > )


ps
oops i mean i did the *** not the commercial thing.

just to let you know i do have a jow ga school beside my kuntaw, but i dont advertise, and we only take referral. maybe, (if GOD is willing)you guys gonna see them next year.

thekuntawman
10-14-2001, 09:55 AM
you know what i just read the first post of this thread. i want to add something.

jow ga is the first (i think the only one too) to perform lion dance and kung fu at the white house for the president carter. that was before my time but i know it was for politics since mr carter just **** off taiwan (where my dad was living). iwas there that year too. 1979

mysteri
10-15-2001, 06:48 AM
zhoujia- ey man, i was jus kiddin about them teaching u application. i jus got in an arguement with some other ***** who got anal about how he'd use nanquan to fight, so i'm jus gonna leave it alone. but i hope to see u this weekend..

thekuntawman- i understand ur point of view and taht ur passionate about these issues and that ur politely makin implications about my sifu. i don't have much history with the family nor do i have much say. as i said before, it's an issue with all of u guys. but i would hope that u wont imply that we try to exclude ourselves from the family. because of the politics for me to argue about anything would be futile because if there was a simple solution to a problem it would have been settled many years ago. but as with all things in life i try to work hard to ensure that future generations won't have to endure such nonsense and may they come together in harmony and peace instead of harboring issues from a past which we didnt know. there have been numerous occasions in the few years i've been on board that we've made much effort to invite and include other branches in our functions. some were more successful than others. btw- jow ga is also a division in the USWKF annual tournament in baltimore now, it's been since at least '99. it may not seem like much, but each step brings a new glimmer of hope to our advancement. i myself try to uphold the true spirit of a martial artist and like a father work hard to ensure a bright future for my next generation. it would be all too easy for me to suggest to your generation to let go of the past because regardless of how much i hear, i will never truly understand. the point of the matter is beyond us and our issues. jow lung had a dream that everyone in the world would know of and be able to practice his style. he understood that like anything which must survive, it will change and evolve. as long as there are always those who genuinely share this dream that this beautiful art will prosper throughout the generations, no kind of selfish acts or attitudes can stop this from happening. i plan to keep this dream alive. may others genuinely as well. many say that education is preparation for life; when in fact it is life itself. may we all practice what we preach.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

mysteri
10-15-2001, 06:50 AM
sorry your father was invloved in that issue in taiwan.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

thekuntawman
10-15-2001, 08:33 AM
hi mysteri
i didnt mean separate from the older generation. what i mean to say is becuase you all know each other and like together, you guys can start a family reunion with just you guys. this way there is no bad feelings in the beginning, and watch maybe the older ones will come around maybe they wont but its you guys that will take jow ga to the next level anyway. we have always beem a chinatown small group. you guys are everywhere.

i didnt want the older ones involve because they will probaly tell you tings like "i'm not going if he's going to be there" and other childish things like that. the family reunion is not for them they already got one. you guys start one. its easy, rent a park or hall for 200 bucks, everybody cooks something, then you guys call each other up (or email, or post here) get a date, then boom, you got it.

with you guys its good you arent there the, so there is no heavy old baggage. if you do that i will be there okay? i will bring my students to. i am trying to get them to use the computer to meet you all, but these are working class guys and they dont do the computer that much. but i would like them to meet other jow ga.

ZhouJiaQuan
10-15-2001, 06:12 PM
mysteri,
haha ok ok i will admit alot of wushu forms dont have alot of useful application, you got me there :) i dunno though, some of the nanquan ive seen looks more practical then alot of other modern wushu(except im seeing this new nanquan form it looks crappy, they are taking it and making it more kicky :( ). anywho dont take any crap from the wushu people :)
including me :rolleyes:

kuntaman,
Im glad to hear that you are spreading jow ga on the west coast:)

peace,
Wally

"Everyone seems so clever and self-assured.
I alone appear unlearned and original,
insistent upon a different direction than other people pursue." -Lao Tzu

mysteri
10-20-2001, 05:53 PM
zhou jia-yeah, i'll leave u wushu guys alone. u serve ur purpose :)

thekuntawman- thank u for your encouragement. only time and experience can help me to make the right choices for the future. should i ever hold a banquet, anyone is invited! we had a banquet a few months ago and all other jow ga schools were invited. it was a successful banquet and i enjoyed it much, i jus wish all of the other schools could have made it. but for whatever reason tehy could not attend i do not hold it against them. there will always be more get-togethers as long as there's people to get together. hope to see u guys in the near future.

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

Jowbacca
05-29-2002, 05:16 PM
============================================
Disclaimer:
Not sure if Sifu wanted me posting on here, as I'm brand new.
Hope nobody minds.
This is the battle ship thread for the greatest style ever :p
Guess it's as good a place as any...
============================================

Is anybody going to the Wong Tournament, June 22nd at Gonzaga High School in Washington, DC?

Sifu and all the students are working real hard and we're hoping for a good turn out.

Hope to see some of you there. Just look for the big, fat, white guy in one of them snazzy red & yellow shirts (hopefully).

If you've got any questions about directions or competing, please contact:
http://www.wongchineseboxing.com
or (202)234-1826
or 1(877)880-6370

{/end shameless advertizing}

ShaolinTiger00
05-30-2002, 12:35 PM
I'll be there.

Jowbacca
05-31-2002, 08:21 AM
Awesome!!

How you doin by the way?
Last I heard things were going kinda rough.
Hope things are going better for yah.

keeta
04-06-2006, 04:50 PM
Does anyone have any info on jow ga and/or siful derek johnson? looking to return to kf after 3 years and a new baby... :D

SanHeChuan
04-06-2006, 05:51 PM
I only know that they have an excellent reputation and that they win compitions alot. I would definitly look into trainning Jow ga if I were in that area.

Shaolinlueb
04-06-2006, 06:46 PM
all the jow ga i have seen in the dc maryland area is very good. lots of quality students. even the ones that move away from the area to spread it are very good.

ShaolinTiger00
04-06-2006, 09:10 PM
I studied JowGa for 7 years, though in reality the last 2 were only in name I was doing strictly sanshou and had stopped doing forms.

If you're into kf from a style point of view then it's pretty **** cool as it's a mix of the best southern and northern systems combined.

Green Cloud
04-06-2006, 09:34 PM
Sifu Derrik is the man and I have a lot of respect for him, he is a respected Jow Ga person. Jow Ga in general is a good style, it resembles choy lee fut with elements of hung kune.

As far as the Baltimore Washington area the Jow Ga schools are all good.

Sifu Kaparos

greencloud.net

ngokfei
04-07-2006, 07:37 PM
If its a school you want then there are quite a few schools

But if your looking for some hardcore personal training you won't get in the average school then I suggest you look up ronald Wheeler.

Not only has been a champion and so many tournaments, including 2 gold medals in China he's also got a strong self defense attitude when training.

Just be perpared to sweat alot....

Green Cloud
04-07-2006, 08:52 PM
Oh shoot how can I forget Sifu Ron Wheeler, he is an ausome competitor and is a respected Jow Ga sifu witha great rep. Me and my studends have a lot of respect for sifu Ron Wheeler.

Radplaiddude
04-09-2006, 04:54 AM
It depends where your at in the NOVA dc Area. You have R Wongs, DC
Derick Mims in Near takoma pk, Ron Wheeler DC.

Green Cloud
04-09-2006, 06:18 AM
Sifu wong and his student's are great on top of holding the best kung fu tournament on the east coast. Raymond Wong actualy takes all the sifus and competitors out to diner at the end of the tourney. Who does that

Tai-Lik
04-09-2006, 07:34 AM
Does anyone have any info on jow ga and/or siful derek johnson? looking to return to kf after 3 years and a new baby... :D


Hi Keeta,

you have Sifu Rahim Muhammad in Washington D.C. (Hung Tao Choy Mei).
Of course Sifu Hoy Lee in VA
Sifu Rez Momenan and Hon Lee in Northern Va (close to D.C.)
You can reach sifu Deric Mims at jowgwun1@aol.com
In D.C. you have alot good choices (Raymond Wong, Ron Wheeler, Rahim Muhammed).
Raymond Wong has an excellent tournament in august and most of the jow ga people come out to support him along with the many other styles.

If your in the Gaitherburg area, Sifu Troy Williams is teaching out there. it may be too far buy you have sifu charles middleton out in Richmond VA (jow Ga kuen).

i'm sure you'll be equally happy with any of the choices.

respectfully
Derek Johnson (tai-lik)
www.jowtigers.com

jow ga man
04-10-2006, 09:38 AM
Keeta Im one of sifu derek Johnson's students. If you would like more information about our school please Personal message me.

keeta
04-15-2006, 06:08 PM
Thank you all for your input! I really appreciate your help.
I'm looking forward to getting back into the game.

Sifu,
I think that I have competed with your students in St. Pete a few years ago, but I'm not certain. I was a student of Sifu Tom Haase of Wah Lum in Tampa. I live in Baltimore and would like to come and see a class sometime if that's ok?

Thank you for your reply to my post.

:)

Swannee
04-15-2006, 06:33 PM
Hi Keeta

Sifu Derek Johnson is a very nice man. We met him a few years ago in Las Vegas
at a Kung Fu meeting. You will do very well with him.

Hope you are doing well.....I will be mailing your package Monday, just what you need to get back on track!!!!

Peace
Cynthia

jow ga man
04-18-2006, 08:53 AM
Keeta please feel free to come check out our kung fu school. hope to see you there soon.

keeta
04-29-2006, 10:25 AM
I just sent you an email to thank you for the package and to ask you and Sifu about jow ga!

:D

chud
04-29-2006, 01:05 PM
If I remember correctly there was a Ms. Tammy Lee who did a Jow Ga form at Taiji Legacy in 2004 and she was quite good; the DVD is for sale through Wayfarer Publications.

BruceSteveRoy
04-29-2006, 01:21 PM
Sifu wong and his student's are great on top of holding the best kung fu tournament on the east coast. Raymond Wong actualy takes all the sifus and competitors out to diner at the end of the tourney. Who does that

yeah sifu R. Wong is a great guy and his tournament is top notch. his school is not only very good and well respected but its also FREE. he doesnt charge money for lessons. i think he is technically a non profit organization and gets either state or federal funding. i think his students are required to do some sort of community service or something in lieu of payment. He is using his kungfu to give back to the community and i think that is awesome.

as for taking everyone out after the tournament. it is extremely generous of him. i think it helps that he owns the restaurant. by the way any one in dc china town the restaurant is on H street and they have very good food and serve dim sum til 3 pm.

Pork Chop
04-29-2006, 06:22 PM
*pours himself some rice wine, with old chinese music playing in the background, as rain falls in the background, sobbing "siiiiiffffuuuuuu" and drinking himself into a stupor*


The Wong family really is family. Unfortunately, I'm a bit disfunctional and couldn't do it. I highly recommend it for anyone else if they want to get the total experience of a real, good kung fu school. I'd say "tell 'em pork chop sent yah" but I don't know if that'd win you any brownie points. haha

I still break out with Small Tiger every once in a while.

SanHeChuan
04-29-2006, 09:52 PM
i think he is technically a non profit organization and gets either state or federal funding.

I would really like to know how he managed that?

GeneChing
09-07-2012, 10:47 AM
Enter to win The Power of Shaolin Kung Fu, autographed by Ronald Wheeler (http://www.kungfumagazine.net/index.html)! Contest ends 6:00 p.m. PST on 09/20/2012. Good luck everyone!

GeneChing
09-24-2012, 12:05 PM
See our Winners of The Power of Shaolin Kung Fu, autographed by Ronald Wheeler (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1188957)thread.

Tailik11
10-21-2012, 08:46 PM
I think it's the best and most accurate hisorty:)


I'm curious to see what the "Community" thinks about Jow Ga (taken from www.jowtigers.com (http://www.jowtigers.com))

The History of Jow Ga (taken from www.jowtigers.com (http://www.jowtigers.com))

The system of Kung Fu known as Jow Ga (Jow Family) is also referred to as Chow Gar, Zhou Jia, and Chau Ka depending on the dialect or translation. Jow Ga has also been referred to as Hung Tao Choy Mei, which translates "head of Hung and tail of Choy.

It was labeled Hung Tao Choy Mei because the system incorporated Hung Ga kung fu's powerful upper-body techniques and Choy Ga kung fu's swift footwork and complex kicking techniques.

The founder of the system was Jow Lung. Jow Lung was born during 1891, in the Canton Province, Hsin-Hui Sheng Sha Fu village, China, an agricultural village for many generations. The people in his village adored martial arts, so Jow Lung starting learning Hung Ga from his Uncle Jow Hung at an early age. Jow Lung's training began with basic stances and stepping. Regardless of age, those who practice Hung Ga, suffer the most from basic stance and step training. Jow Lung never complained about the training and his uncle took a special liking to him.

One day Jow Hung told Jow Lung that he didn't think he would live much longer due to symptoms of an old illness. Jow Hung told Jow Lung that he knew a unique set of Pa Kua staff techniques that he wanted to pass on to Jow Lung before he died. Uncle Hung told Jow Lung that his kung fu technique had come to the point that if he learns the Pa Kua staff techniques, he will be one of the best in the martial arts field. Within one month Jow Lung learned the Pa Kua staff techniques. Shortly after Jow Lung learned the Pa Kua staff techniques, his Uncle Jow Hung died. After the death of his uncle, Jow Lung followed Master Choy Kau (Chi Ching Tsai Kong) and learned Choy Ga Kung Fu. It took Jow Lung only a few years to master the Choy Ga Kung fu because of his basics in Hung Ga kung fu.

At the age of 18, Jow Lung had a difficult time finding a job in his hometown through the introduction of his townspeople, so he traveled to Malaysia (Singapore and Malaysia were one country at that time). In 1910, Jow Lung and many others went to find work as miners in Kuala Lumpur. The bosses, who were described as gangsters, would often beat the workers. One day Jow Lung got into a fight with one of his bosses and fatally wounded him. Jow Lung fled to the mountains and found a temple named "Gi Leu". Because he hadn't eaten for many days and was exhausted, he asked an apprentice at the temple for help. The master of the temple Chian Yi, agreed to provide shelter for Jow Lung in the temple. Chian knew that Jow Lung had a natural talent for Kung Fu from the moment he saw him. Chian Yi taught Jow Lung northern Shaolin Kung Fu and medicine.

One day, Master Chian Yi called Jow Lung and told him, "I have passed on to you the north Shaolin Martial Arts and medicine, and now your skills are good enough to hold a special place in the martial arts field". Master Chian Yi then ordered Jow Lung to leave the temple. When Jow Lung went back to Kuala Lumpur, he felt like centuries had gone by, but he never stopped practicing kung fu. From continuous practice, Jow Lung realized the uniqueness of the three styles of kung fu he learned and decided to combine them into one, thereby developing Jow Ga Kung Fu. Jow Lung felt that he would not be able to spread his family's kung fu in Kuala Lumpur, so he went back to his hometown in China. From then on he vowed to spread his families kung fu. In his hometown, Jow Lung taught his brothers Jow Hip, Jow Biu, Jow Hoy, and Jow Tien the system of kung fu he created. The brothers would diligently practice.

They discussed setting up the first family kung fu school in Canton "Zhou Ren Yi Tang". Jow Lung would be in charge of teaching, while Jow Hip, Jow Biu, Jow Hoy, and Jow Tien would assist in the teaching. Eventually their family kung fu spread. In 1911, a commander of the military ordered General Fu-Lin Li to hire a martial arts expert to be the coach of the military by holding a public competition. Whoever won the competition would get the job. Jow Lung signed up for the competition. The competition was divided into 10 groups, and used elimination's to decide the winner. Jow Lung passed each elimination, and reached the final competition against one of the best martial arts practitioners Guan Gin Sze. Jow Lung defeated Guan Gin Sze and became the military martial arts coach. Because of Jow Lung's success, his brothers assisted him in teaching the military. It was around this time that the brothers became known as "The Five Tigers of Jow Ga".

At that time Jow Lung made it his job to solve problems and dissolve dissentions. The four brothers followed in Jow Lung's footsteps. In 1919, Jow Lung became so busy teaching that he hardly got rest. When Jow Lung caught a cold at times, he would dismiss it casually because he considered himself to be strong. Unfortunately Jow Lung's cold became so severe that it turned into pneumonia and rendered him incurable. Just as other heroes who have died young, Jow Lung died when he was 29. His death shocked the martial arts community. His students mourned him as if they would for their own parents and the society as a whole was at loss.

Jow Hip, Jow Biu, Jow Hoy, and Jow Tien mourned deeply for the loss of their brother. On the day of Jow Lung's funeral, they vowed that they would continue to carry out their brother's dying wish to spread Jow Ga Kung Fu, so that it would be noted in history. The brothers worked hard and opened up the 4th branch in Canton and Hunan. In 1927, they set up the 5th branch in Chen Tsun, 6th branch in Fo Shan, 7th and 8th branch in Nan Hi Shi Giao, and Guin Shan.

In 1928 Jow Biu returned to his hometown to set up the 9th branch in Jiang Men, 10th branch in Tai Shan Hsin Chan, 11th in Gio-Gian, students Zhu Hua and Lee Ngou (Li Niu) in charge. In 1929 Jow Tien went to Shi-Gian to develop and set up branches in Yu -Tsen, Du-Tsen, Nan Fu and Guan-Shi, widely setting up to 20 or more branches. By 1930, 80 branches were set up in Shanghai and led by students of the Five Tigers. Setting up so many branches in a few years is unprecedented in the martial arts field. This was achievable due to the Jow family leadership.

China experienced great political upheaval. Lee Ngou immigrated to Hong Kong's Yuan Lan head branch. Jow Biu followed and set up branches. Many other students of the Five Tigers arrived in Hong Kong later to help with the branches.

The Jow Ga lion dance techniques were even better known. Before World War II, Hong Kong held a huge parade during the inauguration for the King of England George II. The Hong Kong government sent people to Canton to ask a group from Jow Ga to perform for Queen Elizabeth's inauguration ceremony. Jow Biu led the group to accept Hong Kong's invitation. Since the war, Jow Ga's lion team has performed during any large scale parades in Hong Kong. When Queen Elizabeth celebrated her 25th silver anniversary of ruling, the Jow Lung Branch sent out a huge Lion Dance team of 300 people for the parade.

On March 14th 1961, Jow Biu passed away after a short illness.

*** My apologies for such a long opening Topic, but as I was copying directly from the site, I did not want to edit words that were not my own.

I only studied JowGa for 2 years before I moved and found another sifu who taught me N. Shaolin which was suprisingly an easy transition considering JowGa is considered a southern style.
After several more years training in N Shaolin I became interested in Sanshou and began to train ferverously. Many of those powerful movements of JowGa came back into my regemen once again.
and of course the love of the lion dance..

Many publications (kungfu magazine, etc.)have done articles on Jowga and my sifu Hoy Lee especially, but I have not heard of it mentioned in this forum.

There is much more info available but I've already made this post far too long...

A strong man controls others. A man who controls himself is truly powerful. -Lao Tzu

GeneChing
09-18-2018, 09:02 AM
What's it like to go to China for Kung Fu? READ Jow Ga Returns Home (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1439) by Will Bailey

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/upload/2078_FirstSchoolinGuangzhou.jpg