Opening and closing: What is it?

[Fu-Pow]

This is a very vague concept and every description of it I've ever heard is very ambiguous. Anyone have a good solid definition of what this means.

I've asked my teacher but he is equally vague......

[Prairie]

I feel that this question is intimately related to another question that I've been pondering - what qualities make a particular movement more yang than yin or vice versa?

I don't have time at the moment to right my thoughts on the subject. I'll try to write tonight or tomorrow what I think and hope it's not at a level too elementary for you.

[Nexus]

Opening. Example. Door reads 'Push to open, and you push'.

Closing. Example. Over the Intercom you hear 'Shoppers, Please Bring Your Carts To The Checkout Lines. Target will be closing it's door's in fifteen minutes.

[dedalus]

I can identify movements that close and open, and I can perform some of them, but it is difficult to describe objectively.

It feels like closed postures have more adduction of the limbs and flexion of posture, whereas open movements have more abduction of the limbs and extension of posture. That's just my L-plate way of thinking about it, and I should also add that I think the one is classified relative to the other (so its more often about transition between postures than a set point at which a posture is said to be closed or open).

I'll bet there's someone about who has a much better idea about this.

[spiralstair]

One exercise is to think about a time-laspe film of a flower opening and closing, keep the image in your mind and go through the form, you'll find that some postures have big openings and closings(like the flower), and some have small, or one sided, or just the top or bottom, or the front opening while the back closes, or just one hand closing while the other opens, or just.... on and on and on.

[David Jamieson]

For application think of a flower, it opens to accept and allow into itself, it closes to protect and retain.

In terms of forms, openings and closings of forms are "signatures of a school and style. the salute, the bow, etc, identify the origin of a form.

peace

[dezhen2001]

do you mean opening and closing in relation to the dantian?

david :)

[spiralstair]

Flower cont.:
The center of the flower in the time-lapse film is located at navel/mingmen. The movement of the opening and closing in the 'petals' is reflected in the muscles and bones around the central point. To close in this way would be to 'draw in', to open would be to 'unravel'. Both are done like the flower does it, subtly, slowly, and naturally.In the big movements everything opens and closes equally, in other movements it becomes more complicated.

It's not a psychological thing, it's a physical thing accessed through psychology.

[Prairie]

When one 'opens' their elbow they must straighten their arm. When one 'closes' their elbow they must bend their arm.

Often openning and closing is with the hips and the question is more complicated as the hips have more options for movement than the elbow. Also, there are two joints in the hips that will not generally be moving in isolation from one another.

If one visualizes a spike coming out of the top of each leg, one would see these spikes rotate towards each other when the hips close and rotate apart when the hips open.

I think that the concept is not complicated, but openning and closing are defined within contexts and their physical meaning will change from one context to another.

I hope this helps in some way.

[RAF]

If we are speaking of the opening and closing postures, you can think of them in terms of applications. For example, you can use the opening posture to break someone's grip on your wrists and then a press down into the breast area. The posture changes from the horse stance into a 60/40 or half horse/half bow.

There is a similiar application in the closing posture.

IME, I leave the qi explanations to the experts and the applications seem easier to comprehend, if I understand the original post.

[D15062]

Prairie:
You can find aspects of Yin and Yang many different ways in your postures. Postures that are weighted forword could be Yang while postures weighted back are Yin. Postures that are high could be Yang while low postures could be Yin. Then you can get into the whole energy thing (which I have no clue about yet).

As far as opening and closing go. I've had it explained to me much like Dedalus post said. Postures that expand and have the elbows out from the body giving the energy the ability to move are opening movements. While postures that contract and have the elbows close to the body which closes off the energy or hense forth known as closing postures.

Just my 2 cents

Dan

[Scarletmantis]

Praire said: "Often opening and closing is with the hips and the question becomes more complicated as the hips have more options for movement... there are two joints in the hips that will not generally be moving in isolation from one another. If one visualizes a spike ...coming from the top of each leg...the spikes will rotate out through the hip when you open, and in through the hip when you close."


I couldn't have said it better myself. Fu-Pow, until you learn to relax the hips, your lower Dan Tien will not be able to manifest strength from the ground, because you will not be able to open and close your hips! The middle Dan Tien works in a similar way, but the shoulders are manifesting the opening and closing movements, which is what D15062 was refering too above.

You cannot isolate the hips as you intimated in your last thread, without hindering your ability to experience opening and closing for yourself. If your teacher can't explain, perhaps he can show you. The problem is that no matter how many times he shows and explains the movements, you will not be able to do it until you spontaniously DO IT.

It's akin to Zen's !Satori! experience wherein the student does his best to follow the way, until one day enlightenment comes spontaniously. Of course, if the student didn't have a teacher showing him where to place his hands, how to sit, how to obsereve ritual, how to eat etc., his !Satori! might never happen.

It's the same with internal arts. Your teacher shows you how to move. He explains the theory behind the movements. He makes sure you have an appropriate place to practice. He helps heal your body when you get injured. Your job, as a student, is to just keep doing your best. Keep practicing, keep asking questions, but more importantly,KEEP TRYING TO FIND YOUR OWN ANSWERS THROUGH PRACTICE!

In many internal movements the elbows, knees, ankles and wrists are just going along for the ride. Actually, there will come a time when you will see that ALL of your joints, in essence, your entire body will be "just going along for the ride".

That's when martial art become a bit more mystical, even more difficult to define, but by then, your understanding will be intuitive, rather than logical, and you won't be looking for definitions. You will have !Satori! The definitions will be saved for your students.:D

[D15062]

Excellent post Scarlet!!!! Thank you, you helped to understand something I have been trying to figure out (bowing ever so humbly)

Dan

[No_Know]

It's the pivot of the heel of the foot. If the inside of the foot moves towards the centerline of the body or towards the body, this is closing. If the inside of the foot moves away from the centerline of the body, this is opening. Perhaps some-such.

[Scarletmantis]

D15062, or can I call you Dan? It's easier to remember! I hadn't noticed your signature earlier:




"Every day I wake up and realize that I know less than the day before"

That is precisely what I meant.Was it that rascally old gentelman, Lao who said "One who knows much says little, One who knows little says much" ? I must return your humble bow.