Kajukenbo

[awakenwired]

I've been out looking for a good style. I was thinking Northern Shaolin at first because of it's history and what not. Haven't signed up with anything yet, but I've recently discovered Chu'an-fa Kajukenbo and although it has no real traditional background like Shaolin, I'm attracted to the practicality that it boasts. I've searched this board as throughly as my spare time will allow and can find little mentioning this. I can find alot of arguement though on Kung-Fu vs BJJ, and questions with what is better. This almost seems like a suitable answer to that question. But I'm pretty green to MA, and I am finding alot of shadiness to this style on the net. Seems to kind of walk a different path than that CMA in terms of philosophy. I was wondering what everyone elses thoughts were on the style. I know you all avoid being critical about other styles, but perhaps someone that has trained a little in it could give their insights, and opinions on if this would be a good starting point, and then possibly moving into something more traditional down the road. Thanks for your time.

[diego]

and I am finding alot of shadiness to this style on the net. Seems to kind of walk a different path than that CMA in terms of philosophy. """

What do you mean by that?.

[awakenwired]

Oh for example I ran across one school that touted that they "Properly" know how to handle beers bottles. Biting, hairpulling and the likes seemed encouraged. alot of sites I've seen seem to quote the saying: The perfected art of fighting Dirty.

Then again though it's big strong point is it's practicality, and how it was designed with modern day street fighting in mind. Which would all make sence. I'm pretty green to MA, so My understanding of it is probably limited, but it seems there is a difference in what I'm seeing here, as to suppose Northern Shaolin. I'm not seeing these differences as a negative thing by any means though, I was just curious what the general opinion on the style was since I was considering picking it up. I don't see it mentioned much here.

[diego]

eh, show me the urls you have visited, i have about twenty kajukenbo site links, Perhaps i can give you more info on its history, do you know the name of the school and the teacher your looking at?.

[awakenwired]

I don't have the URLS off hand, just did a "Google Search" and went through just about every link i could find up to about 16 pages of links i think. There is one school in my town that I've visited, I don't think this guy is quite like what I've been reading on the net. Sounds pretty good actually, the Sifu I met there was totally drenched in sweat, The first Intructor that i've met so far to be out of breath like that, seem pretty cool. His name Rick Cropper www.cropperkungfu.com. There's another guy in town Al Dacascos, With the little research I've done It's my understanding that he is one of the original students that was taught be the five founders in Hawaii. And was one of the students that had brought the style back to the main land. However according to Wushu Chik he only teaches his Own form now. I've met Cropper, but have yet to meet Dacascos, I'm pretty sure his style is probably heavily influences by Kaj though. I hope to be checking his place out Monday.

[diego]

originally it was kajukenbo, then in the 50s it became chuanfa, from Adriano Emperado & Al Dacascos reworking and blending with they kungfu. Then came TumPai, When Emperado authorized Jon Loren to blend it with his knowledge of TaiChi, Then under Emperados authorization, Al Dacascos blended it into his personal expression of WHKD, also i think in the 80s, Emperado blended it with his knowledge of HsingYi, and my particular style is blended with HopGar Gung-Fu. Its basically built off kenpos hands, based on the techniques of, snaps"wich is the key technique for kajukenbo", thrusts, cuts, and thrust cuts wich is like a jab and rake!. I would describe kajukenbos punching as kenpos hands mixed with choy lay futs rooting, wich in kajukenbo resembles, thier leopard technique, mixed with western boxing dimensions of fluidity, meaning basically if you learn the original kajukenbo fighting principals from the original 5styles synthesized, basically it helps you fight like a kickboxer but with traditional techniques, like once you get that original foundation, you can easily borrow techniques from other styles, and its just like adding a new brand of ammo to your favorite gun, and that is the reason behind all the variations!.
Peace

[awakenwired]

Ahh thanks for filling in some holes. I've been trying to research different styles as carefully as possible before commiting myslef to one. It will be a strong commitment, which is why I'm taking such care in the research of styles, and teachers themselves. I'm getting the impression that the Kajukenbo world is a rather small one, and was wondering if you have heard anything on this Cropper guy. He really sticks out in my mind because he was by far the most energetic, and enthusiatsic instructor I have met yet. He is fairly young though, 41 I think he said, but claims to have trained in MA since he was 8. Funny though, it seems most instructors seem to have started their training before the age of 10.

[Stacey]

Kajukempo is pretty much just in the Pacific, NW.

It makes your stiff, so you feel powerfull, but in effect you are even more innefective. In my experience they are big on "control" ie conditioning yourself to stop before hitting which is great for getting beaten up. hence the "snapping" power....hint...all good punches have snap, overemphasising the snap is like looking at the finger.

I have never heard of it producing good fighters, and I've seen worse. When I did Kenpo as a kid, we did tourneys against them...one time I asked way too loudly, "Sensei, how come they don't move their hips when they punch?" We assumed it was the kung fu mix.


Yeah yeah, the man not the style, but even if your doing Wushu Chuan Fa with applications obtained from Jet Li movies, your still better off.

[awakenwired]

I'm not quite sure I follow you on a couple points. You mention stiffness, but I've seen videos on their "Kata" and the movements there seem quite fluid and somewhat elegant. you also mention something about Controling yourself to stop before hitting. This sounds to be counter-productive to me, if you could elaborate on that a little more that would be great, thanks for the reply any and all info is a help. I did find a site that has a list of school, and their locations though. The Pacific NW does have there fair share, but mainly in Washington. The state that boasts the most though looks to be California, Texas, and Arizona seem to have a pretty good selection as well. http://www.kajukenbo.org/schools/

[diego]

Kajukenbo Techniques

Like most karate systems kajukenbo has katas or forms. These 14 katas are known as "Palama Sets" 1 through 14. ( These katas were formerly known as Pinans. Forbach explains that in February of 1993 Professor Adriano D. Emperado renamed the katas to show their origin, the Palama Settlement of Honolulu, Hawaii.) Like traditional systems, kajukenbo takes a number of it's self defense techniques from it's katas. Although the Palama sets provide the kajukenbo stylist with many good techniques, kajukenbo's strength lies in it's self defense techniques. These self defense techniques are arranged and categorized into 15 grab arts, 21 punch counters, 15 knife counters, 13 club counters, 9 two and three man attack counters, and 26 advanced alphabet techniques. """""""""""

Also these selfdefense techniques, are done by a partner attacking you, and you running through the drill, wich is the kajukenbo way of doing linedrills, not unlike chinese twoman sets!.


""""""""""""By combining techniques from tang soo do, judo, jujitsu, kenpo and kung fu, the kajukenbo stylist can defend himself in many ways. He can use soft circular kung fu techniques to evade and strike. Or he can use judo or jujitsu to throw an attacker to the ground or restrain and control him. Forbach feels that the strength of kajukenbo is in how these techniques are combined. For example, if the attacker punches, the kajukenbo stylist may step into the attack at a 45 degree angle while blocking with a soft palm block. He would then counter attack with several rapid fire kenpo hand strikes followed by a judo foot sweep. Once on the ground the attacker could be struck again or controlled with a jujitsu lock. Unlike most traditional systems, kajukenbo relies heavily on combination techniques. These combination techniques are arranged so that each technique will set up the next by following the reaction of the attacker's body. Although some martial artists may describe this as overkill, Forbach feels that an attacker may not be stopped by one strongly focused blow. Therefore the theory behind kajukenbo is that it is better to counter with a multitude of techniques that can be ended when the threat no longer exists, than to rely on one technique and find that it is not enough. """"""""""

this is what i mean by snap techniques are the key, and what i meant by it teaches you to fight like a kickboxer, wich is a primitive example!.
Many styles such as in the karate world, trian for that onekill technique, wheras kajukenbo trains to build up for that technique.
What stacey wrote is his probable troll conjecture, out of almost 60 years of bieng in existence, you gonna tell me every practitioner trains to pullback
:eek: THANX FOR THE NOTICE! GUESS I SHOULD LOOK FORWARD.
Also, At the top of the second paragraph, it mentions the styles kajukenbo is based on, one, this is one of the first systems in the modern world of mma, also this isnt some excuisite style, its just a physical method, of combining those five styles, methods that the creators got a hold of, and found to be applicable to train as a traditional form, to practise the preferance, of thier personnal networks of combat, and its said thier is 30 styles of kajukenbo now, but only four listed are verified, due to politics!.

[diego]

http://www.interactivesmack.com/kajukenbo/sijo.html

[awakenwired]

Thanks alot for the link, that was a really informative site. And gave me more info about Al Dacascos who is in my area. Sort of. He's actually a little out of the way, but I think I'll go check out his establishment tomorrow ;)

[scotty1]

What Stacey meant by being conditioned to pull back is this:
if you only ever practice your punches by hitting the air, and sparring non contact, or pulling your punches an inch from your opponents face then you are conditioning your muscle memory to do that in a real fight.
Purely non-contact trainng methods may well do this, they also have a lot of other disadvantages, but as long as they are mixed in with bag and pad work, and some contact drills and sparring so you get used to the feel of hitting things, then I'm sure you'll be fine.

But remember, having a practical application philosophy is great, but if you don't practice practical applications, with force, against a resisting opponent, then its not very practical.:)