DO PI" The Style Of The Way"

[diego]

http://www.hongluck.org/dp_found.htm

Any info?, this is very interesting as i do HopGar!.

[anton]

http://www.pantherfist.com/immortal.html
I believe the Taoist system being referred to here is Tao Pai.

[mono68]

Do Pai is a Toishan based style mixed from the styles learned by the founder a little of Hop Ga, Hung Kuen, Jow Ga. Rich in southern flavor. Good hok shan lion dancing they also do.

[RENEGADE_MONK]

mono68,

Jow Ga and Do Pai you refer to are two seperate/different systems founded by two different persons. Also Do Pai is not derived from Jow Ga

The founder of Jow Ga "Jow Lung" has no ties to Do Pai system
however Jow Ga was founded on the principles of combining
Choy Ga which is the precurser to Choy lay Fut, Bak Si Lum, and Hung Gar:cool:



R.I.P ARH

[diego]

some weblinks to masters of this style would be great, renegade monk you wrote that jowga isnt init, you seem so sure so tell me about do pi/tao pai?, also the creator GM Chan Dau it says he was one of the ten tigers of guangdong/canton?"same thing right?" so he must be famous, and anyone who has any REAL kf knowledge i would think would know of He, at least if you bill yourself as knowledgeable on kf of chinas south:)

[RENEGADE_MONK]

Diego,

Where in my post did I bill myself as so knowledgable. I'm making statements on the system I study Jow Ga that is all.

I'm just informing mono68 that Jow Ga and Do Pai are seperate systems that is all I know. I nothing about the Do Pai history so I can't make presumptions on that.

I do know my systems history in that Jow Ga was founded in Sau Fu villiage around 1915 which makes it a very young system by Jow Lung who in turn passed it onto his four brothers one of those brother Jow Biu passed Jow Ga to Chan Man Cheung who then passed it onto my Si Jo Dean Chin that taught my Sifu Raymond Wong until his death in 1985 and I am a direct student of Raymond Wong.

Let me ask you this to help you if I can when was Do Pai founded Diego? if it was founded before 1915 that would make it pretty obvious that Do Pai could not be derived from Jow Ga

Basically every villiage in Canton had a version of some sort named after the orginal Ten Tigers. Jow Ga's being "Ng Fu Jow"
Five Tigers of the Jow Family.

I really think you have the systems confused, and I'm just trying to help clarify some info for to help your search.

If you would like some Jow Ga links let me know I'll be more than hapy to post them for you.
:)

My apologies if my Kungfu knowledge, or lack thereof offends you;)

[diego]

so who do i goto when moderators hijack my threads:D

i think it was founded in 1941?, i think it blends with hungga hopga choylifut and some internal?, i knew jowga wasnt init, as the site never made mention, the way you wrote in your first post, sounded like you knew about do pi, but just corrected mono,:) but forgot to add info on do pi:p

so who do i complain to about mods jakn posts/JK!

im searching for this style, so could you save me alot of time!, would you post The Official JowGa urls?, and i'l get the general ones from thier links.
Thanks

























TROLL:rolleyes: :cool:

[diego]

you edited now my post looks like im drunk:D

[mono68]

RM:
in the site it refers to Chan Dau studied under a Chow Lung in translating J and Ch are the same. Also I know they are two differwent systems, But this founder studied and combined the styles. not to say it is Hop Ga, Hung Kuen, Jow Ga seperately. read his bio once again.

[RENEGADE_MONK]

I'll post more for you when I get back from practice but here are two for you.

http://www.wongjowgakungfu.com/sifuwong.htm

http://www.jowtigers.com

http://www.jowga.com.au/jowga_frame.html


these should tie you over for a while hope they help

[diego]

who are the tentigers in your lineage?, every villaga had a version- is that they thiers many lists of whos in the 10 tigers, or they had a style cliaming ties to to them?.

[diego]

Chan Dau would later make contact with his family, and also furthered his studies under Leung Kwai and Chow Lung.

whos Leung Kwai?

and whos that fishmonger guy they mention?

[diego]

ttt

[Je Lei Sifu]

Chan Dau was a very famous Hung Ga practitioner during the 1950's. He is shown in several of the Wong Fei Hung memorial anniversary pictures that many schools have. He was also famous for several feats of strenght that he would display during public exhibitions.

Chan Dau was not one of the Gwongdong Sup Fu. He became famous much later than the Canton 10 Tigers.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu

[CLFNole]

Diego:

Leung Kwai was a CLF sifu. He learned from Chan Koon Pak (Chan Hueng's son) and Cheong Hung Sing (Jeong Yim). He was one of my sifu's sigung's.

Peace.

[diego]

MD1 Perhaps Thier is two styles dopi from chan dau circa 1941 in hongkong, and tao pai the taoist style you mentioned, i say this as its not new in martial arts for one to rearange history towards his curriculum, But as JuLei mentioned Master Chan Dau in HungGa circles is Regarded!, ? What do you think?, Also can you tell me more about Tao Pai?.

JuLeiSifu, are these pictures on the net?. So, I Know who is Leung Kwai, Who is Chow Lung, & Is Charn The FishMonger that BakMei Master?, & Any Info on Canton's "Four Mad Fighters."
After two years at the temple, Chan Dau returned to Canton with help from his new mentor.

Unable to find his family in Canton, Chan Dau was forced to become a peanut-peddler to earn a living. One day, Chan Dau participated in a martial arts exhibition in the streets of Canton, and impressed the students of Charn the Fish-Monger. Chan Dau became a student of the Fish-Monger, and quickly gained a name for himself as one of Canton's "Four Mad Fighters."

[CLFNole]

Jow Lung was the founder of the Jow Gar style in believe or at least he was one of the 4 brothers of the founder.

Peace

[diego]

Right that is what Renegade monk mentioned:) , any idea about the fishmonger?, and these guys-Canton's "Four Mad Fighters."
they sound pretty crazy - mad:rolleyes: :cool:

[md1]

Diego, maybe your right there could be two different styles. my sifu is a grandmaster in Dao pi and Mu Dong. He had alot to do with the Hong luck school back in the 60's & 70's, and he didn't learn from master chan dao. I can find out more the next time i'm in toronto if you like.

[CLFNole]

MD1 are you confusing Hong Luck's sifu Paul Chan with Chan Dao. Chan Dao was Paul Chan's sifu and is the founder of the Dao Pai system. The style is famous for its drunken set. I don't believe that the Dao has Taoist roots. I may be wrong I am only a CLF guy but my sifu was good friends with Sifu Paul Chan.

Peace.

[diego]

Interesting, what style is Mu Dong i have heard this but cant place it.

Now dao pi bieng famous for its drunken set, are you talking about this?

"
http://www.superiormartialarts.com/catalog/uniform/kungfubooks1.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"50187 The Drunkard Kung Fu and its Application
by Leung Ting (5.5?x 8.5? 161 pp.)
This classic book reveals a famous southern style of Drunken Kung Fu. This style is based upon the popular characters from Chinese mythology known as the eight drunken immortals. Sifu Chiu Chung Yat, trained in the Nam Wah Monastery in Southern China, demonstrates this rare form of Kung Fu and its applications. $14.85"

[Je Lei Sifu]

There are several Hung Ga schools that have pictures of Wong Fei Hung's Memorial Anniversay. The one that my sifu has in the school is from the year 1958. In this picture there are several famous Hung Ga masters including; Chan Dau, Ho Lap Tin, Mok Gwai Lan, Tang Sau Kin, Lam Jo, Chui Kau, Lau Jahm and several other masters. Also in the picture is famous Lama Pai/White Crane master Gwan Dak Hing of the Wong Fei Hung movie fame.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu

[RENEGADE_MONK]

Originally posted by diego
MD1 Perhaps Thier is two styles dopi from chan dau circa 1941



Hi Diego,

From what I understand there is only one style/system of Do Pi, but they [Hong Luck] do teach two seperate systems CLF, and Do Pi.

I've emailed Hong Luck school Inquiring about Do Pi history more specifically Chan Dau and his training with Chow Lung, or Jow Jung, what I was able to find out so far from the response I got was that Do Pi has the elements of Hung gar beginning and Choy Gar ending which I find interesting cause that basically is what Jow Ga' elements are based on "Head of Hung Tail of Choy"
Translated to Hung Tao Choy Mei.

Right now from what I gathered its a possibility that Do Pi is derived from Jow Ga. Currently I'm waiting for dates and such in my next response



R.I.P ARH

[diego]

:D Very interesting i love that headtail conceptstyles like sunlutangs etc...very cool

Rm i have a dopi thread on the shaolin forum, mostly stumblefist replied, it is a page long, so could you link that thread over here on this thread preferabbly after these posts, i could cut n paste but its better if you guys move it official...For viewing pleasures:)

[RENEGADE_MONK]

No prob,

I think I can do that 4 ya

[diego]

:cool:

[RENEGADE_MONK]

Nocan do Diego,

I don't have high enough permissions to moderate any posts from the Southern forum besides the KF forum,

I saw your MULTIPLE:) posts dealing with this subject at the time the one on the Southern forum wasn't getting any responses so I stopped reading it now its getting good responses.

Anyway...... in reference to Md1' post there, stating that Chan Dau was not the founder of Do Pi would possibly explain why there are no written dates and why I am not getting any replies to my email concerning Chan Dau' development of Do Pi

[md1]

clfnole... who is your sifu

[CLFNole]

MD1:

My sifu was the late Lee Koon Hung. After sifu passed away I followed his younger brother Li Siu Hung.

Is the Do Pai that you speak of the same system from Chan Do, the one famous for its drunken set. If it is then why do many people including some sifus say that Chan Do was the founder. I didn't think it had anything to do with Mo Dong and Daoism.

Peace.

[diego]

Anton on the first page of this thread posted a picture of sifu lok so teaching drunken 8 immortals, from his tao pai system.
Does anyone have more information on this masters bio and style?.

[md1]

clfnole.. I don't know if it's the same system as master chan dao.
I will try to find out more the next time i'm in toronto. all i can tell you is my sifu started learning when he was 4 years old from a taoist monk at wu dang, who was around long before master dao.
The hong luck never gave my sifu any credit after all the help he gave them.

oh by the way, you said sifu p. chan and your sifu where friends?,
than he must have known my sifu. i have tape from 1965 of 6 of the masters in toronto at a karate tourn. doing a demo in hung gar, choy la fut. maybe your sifu was there at that time

MD1

[CLFNole]

MD1:

Not sure at that time my sifu would have been pretty young like around 23. I know he went to many places during the 70s and 80s before moving to the US in 1993. How old is the CLF person in the video. I know there are quite a few CLF players in Canada.

Peace.

[lkfmdc]

Stimblefist, please do not relate rumor as fact or speak for people who you are not entitled to speak for...

Master CHAN Tai-San indeed taught at Hong Luck club but has no issues with the club and there was no "falling out" or ill will. He simply did what he had planned to do all along, moved to the US. He still maintains contact with the people who trained with him up at Hong Luck. We ask you to refrain from speaking as if you have some official capacity to speak for Master Chan

[lkfmdc]

I can't believe you insist on acting like the national enquirere of Chinese martial arts, sad.

No one attempted to "assassinate" your character and certainly not to "rewrite history". The simple fact is that you can not and should not speak for Chan Tai San and you have no rightful business spreading "gossip"

Paul Chan's #1 and #2 students are still in his gym and visited Chan Tai San in NYC on 3 occassions at least.

Simply dissist from "si fei' and that's all we ask.

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

Stumblefist,

This is the reference to which you refer:

"In the United States Steve Ventura and David Ross, followers of recognised Lama Grandmaster Chan-Tai-San, have attempted to draw together elements of all the traditions and have named their efforts ‘Lama Kung-Fu’ and ‘Modern Lama Kung-Fu’. They now refer to the other branches calling themselves as Lama as ‘Lama Pai’ to distinguish their own synthesis from those of other lineages. It remains to be seen if their efforts will be accepted as ‘orthodox’ by the rest of the tradition – but I wish them every success and good fortune".

Just to make things clear, the passage refers to the efforts of named STUDENTS of Grandmaster Chan-Tai-San to unite the different traditions in Tibetan Kung-Fu, it does NOT suggest that Modern Lama Kung-Fu is the direct product of Grandmaster Chan.
Ross and Ventura have published on their efforts many times over the past several years and are to be commended for their skill and dedication in both practice and research.

As I understand it, Grandmaster Chan has studied most, perhaps all, of the extant branches of Tibetan Kung-Fu and is without question one of the world's best qualified elders in these arts.

I have the highest regard for him and for the two named students in that passage.

Tao.
www.tibetankungfu.com

[diego]

Hello Stumble i take it you talked to your sources and thanks for answering the original enquiry from the beginning of this thread... Any idea who the hopgar monk is the dopi founder learnt from when he was kidnapped?.

[diego]

Specifically dopi founder cahn dau, what style is he doing with his left paksao in this picture?. In my styles dragon dance set this hand, wich is also famous in pakua dragon styles " index is above middle above ring above pinky fingers, oppossed to the cow tongue palm the focus is on the thumb index and middle fingers mimicing a eagles three talons in applications", is the key feature...like pakua has the top finger above the next and hungga has thier index finger shaolin salute!. Anybody have infos they could share on chan daus demo?.


http://www.hongluck.org/img/chan_dau.gif


here is that history specifically agian:Chan Dau


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do Pi, or the Style of the Way, was founded by the legendary boxer Grandmaster Chan Dau.




The Yu family and the Hung Style Fist


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chan Dau began training in martial arts at the age of nine. He was a native of the Yung Kay district of Canton, and early in his life, he was kidnapped and sold to the powerful Yu family in the nearby town of Toishan.

Encouraged by the Yu family's grandfather, Chan Dau began learning Hung Kuen, or the Hung Style Fist, under Yu Mui. At that time, Master Yu Mui had just returned from the US, and brought with him Western boxing techniques.

Chan Dau immersed himself in martial arts and rapidly excelled in Hung Kuen.



Retreat into the monastery


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somewhat of a naughty child, Chan Dau was one day practising martial arts and happened to hit his grandfather with an accidental blow. His grandfather became enraged, and drove him out of the Yu household.

With no place to turn, Chan Dau sought refuge in a nearby Buddhist monastery. The place was already familiar to Chan Dau. He had been taking additional lessons from a monk at the monastery on account of his step-grandfather's encouragement. Homeless and without money, the monastery become Chan Dau's new home and the monk his new teacher.

For two years, Chan Dau lived at the monastery and learned Hop Gar, or the Fighting System of Gallant Knights, from the monk.

[anton]

Originally posted by diego
Anton on the first page of this thread posted a picture of sifu lok so teaching drunken 8 immortals, from his tao pai system.
Does anyone have more information on this masters bio and style?.

I think k-no is learning the form off Sifu Lacey, so he may know something about sifu lok so, or could probably find out.

[lkfmdc]

heh heh, he hasn't figured out who he is talking to has he? :)

[Buby]

I guess he hasn't.:D

Take care gentlemen,
Buby

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
heh heh, he hasn't figured out who he is talking to has he? :)

Oh, be nice :D

[diego]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stumblefist
[B]
...

...
Diego: That posture is from Dopi. It is one of the fundamental footwork movements""""YAH I KNOW ITS THE SECOND TECH I LEARNT!:D .

The hand though, thats what i am curious about, becuase in kaidos style im told you get good at the closed karatelike knifehand then once your bridges is formed you curl the pinky and ring finger and bend and place your intention on your thumb index and middle fingertips!...does that make sence?.


thats just in general, but kaidos 4th set wich is called dragon dance, all the open hand techs "claws and block/deflections" use this twin dragons in search of pearl claw...WHERE IS THIS FROM?.

shaolin, did hopga get it from hungga or did kaido borrow it from hung or maybe from a pakua he may have learnt...maybe dragon style?.

Do you know what im referring to...:) ANYONE.

also stumble please emial me or post here if/when you can get the name from the eagle claw master!?!...:cool:

[lkfmdc]

I just love people who think to do Chinese martial art you have to come off like a monk from the Kung Fu TV show....

I wasn't rude to you, I simply asked you not to make statements about any state of relationship between Chan Tai San and Hong Luck as you do not have authority to speak for either one of them. If you have some issue with either of them personally that is your business, but don't speak for them, is that really so hard to understand?

At numerous turns here you try to act like you have special knowledge, you don't even know Chan Tai San's correct full name for lord's sake. Nor do you know anything about us in NY or what we do.

Now, continue to post all you want I guess, I think I have been very clear about what we requested, so have a nice day, a nice life and enjoy the freedom the internet offers

[lkfmdc]

you are an interesting dude, really, but I wonder

have you ever heard of a typo?

[diego]

I was just told outward block and how it should be done, However just like miyagis sleek buffing insight:cool: most of the defensive hands in the dragondance deals with two handed defensive wich i best could describe as like taichis cloudhands or wave hands...Roll the ball, whatever they call it!?.:)

[friday]

can oneo f u tell me what This Do-pi style is all about?

i'm confused :)

[David Jamieson]

So i would say that they made use of Classical MA (Karate and Kungfu) but they basically rejected it (impractical moves that had no use , impractical postures. like horse stance.

Kungfu contains myriad techniques. some unusual and some immediately reconizable. Not all is for everyone but something is there that will fit you. How i express Kungfu is how i understand it and am able to express it, in training or otherwise. at least in context to the martial arts of Kungfu.

peace

[dubj]

md1, is your teacher Sam Wong? It seems that you are an older student, so I am wondering if you are familiar with dai sigung Willem Reeders. I am a 4th generation student of his through sigung Art Sikes. I am just curious because I would like to learn more about the history and depth of the system he taught, and I would like to learn more about your system.

Peace

[dubj]

http://www.geocities.com/kungfufed/home.html
Here is a link with some info on Grandmaster Wong.
If you click on the page about grandmaster Reeders there is an old article that mentions the Hong Luck club. If you do a search on Sam Wong you can find some info on his history.

[dubj]

Here is another link with more detailed info and a lineage chart. http://www.geocities.com/mudongkungfu/samwong9258036.html

[dubj]

Would you be willing and able to help me find out some details of what Grandmaster Reeders taught and some historical info on his style and teachers? For example, I am interested to know his ties to the royal family and how his system is considered the royal kun tao? I have asked my teacher about these things, and he told me that he just went to class and worked hard and never was really concerned with the styles roots and history. What I have learned is not very specific or consistent. I personally love history and learning about how past masters lived and trained is actually inspiring to me. If you can help I would truly appreciate it.