Fro those gents who like tactical knifes Part 2

[Black Jack]

I have heard nothing but amazing and first rate things about the handcrafted American knifes from Jerry Hossom. These are without a doubt some of the most beautifull and functional esthetic large tactical performance blades I have ever seen on the web.

I am on a quest to find some at a knife convention and feel them out, something about them just blows me away, and I know from the comments of others is that I will not be disappointed. I also like the downhome American feel the maker has put to the sights and to his products. All I have to say is wow and I want not one but a few.

There's something about big blades and training with big blades that feels good to my hands. Hope those of you who like these things will enjoy the pics and maybe one or two of you have handled these classics at one time or another and will share you experiances.

www.hossom.com

[Royal Dragon]

cool looking knives.
I'm not familliar with the steel used though.

I myself like te ATS 34. It is heavy dense, and can be hardened quite a bit without getting brittle. I think my Mallard is a rockwell of 60?

It's hard to sharpen though, and ruins a regular stone after just two sharpenings. I really need a diamond stone to get it it's sharpest. Last time I did use a diamond stone to sharpen it, it had a sashving edge, went camping with me, and cut wood down to kindling size for most of the trip, and still shaved when we came home.

I'm planning to some day have a blade made with an old KA Bar handle out of ATS 34 because of the total abuseability my Mallard has. It's a damm near perfect knife steel if you ask me.

[Black Jack]

Whats up bro,

I don't know the specifics of that grade of steel but I bet its very high as indicated by the steep price tag, I would wager a high note more than the standard ATS 34 and used for the type of backwards grinding method he incorporates in his knifemaking.

The Hossom blades are supposed to be STRONG.

Now, lets talk about your favorite and one of mine, lets talk PURE historical Americana:D

Over 100 years in business, no frills and straight to the point, but a hardcore blade to the very bone, a pure business fighting knife coupled with a real legacy of sweat, blood and tears.

www.kabar.com

I list the kabar as one of my all time favorite knifes, VERY AFFORDABLE, a great company, a great history and a great selection.

Some wishy washy naysayers sometimes say the knifes are a bit weak for pure out utility work, but I say, if they were good enough for the American fighting men in WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm and whatever other Theater of War the winds may take them, then they are more than good enough for a guy like me.

KA-BAR rules.

[red_fists]

Anbody got any experience/opinion on this Knife:


Knife (http://www.glock.com/knives.htm)

Thanks, in advance.

[Black Jack]

I've never held one but I doubt you could go seriously wrong with something from Glock, they make those knifes to certain army requirements for Austria, sounds like a good buy to me.

I think you "might" be able to get one at a discount rate from www.cheaperthandirt.com

Which by the way is a real cool site for some good finds, real army issue material, some surplus stuff from WWI, WWII and Korea.

All in all a neat and cheap website for gear, I believe I saw a Glock Field Knife on their a few months back, you would save around $20-30 bucks I bet.

Cheers

[red_fists]

Black Jack.

Thanks.

I might ask somebody from my Family to get me one, depending if I can get it into japan that is.

My Family doens't live too far from the Glock Factory in Austria.

Seeya.

[popsider]

That knife makers web site is so full of bull**** it's unreal. All that Sept 11th "cowards war" crap and the stuff about slicing turbans is verging on racist.

[JWTAYLOR]

Ahem, God I'm going to take some sh!t for this,

I don't like hollow ground knives.

There, I said it.

Although they are lighter, there is just too much steel removed from the blade for my taste. I've had an edge chip chopping a joint of a pig, and I'm very wary of a blade snapping between a rib in combat.

BTW,

154 CM is a friggin super steel, if you can find it. It is, however, a real b1tch to sharpen or shape. I have a blade that I made it with, shapped by hand file, and although I'm proud of it, I'd never do it again.

ATS34 is the modern version of 154 CM, basically the same, and maybe a little cleaner. I've noticed that it sometimes has a weird sheen to it, but no big deal.


S30V is a BRAND NEW steel. I'm pretty sure it's made by Crucible, but I'm not sure. It's a powder steel. It's a process that takes the allow down to a teeny tiny powder balls and then the balls are compressed to make a very clean, very very uniform steel. I have never worked it, but I hear good things from those who have. Apparently it's not so hard to work with either. I don't have a blade with this steel, so I haven't seen how it performs in the field.

JWT

[Black Jack]

JWT, you work steel, are you a trained knifesmith or self taught like Hossom?

I believe one of the benefits, though this could be argued very easily in a tactical manner is that those hollow ground knifes can be removed faster in a stress draw, I don't buy into that but I believe I have heard it stated somewhere before.

Popsider,

If you are talking about the man's justified political views, thats a different issue, I don't see anything wrong with them, if hijacking a commerical jetliner full of men, women and children and then flying it into a non-military based target, full of again civilan men, and women is something you call a non cowards war then I would hate to think what you would call a cowards war.

Keep your poltical bs to another thread.

[JWTAYLOR]

I apprenticed at Kelly Forge in Wimberly, TX for 2 years. I've learned some basics, enough for me to make usable blades, but nothing close to what even a Journeyman can do. Basically, I tinker. I'd love to do more, but equipment costs allot, and it takes an incredible amount of time. So far, I've made a maybe half a dozen blades usuing a home made forge, a sledge, an anvil, and leaf spring, and a flat b@st@rd file. I even cook my own raw coal for coke. I've bought some steel blocks for stock removal as well, and I've had allot better results with it. But, again, it takes some serious time. My last knife took at least a hundred hours of filing.

It's all really simple at my level, anyone could do it.

JWT

[JWTAYLOR]

D@mnit all to hell.

This thread got me all hot and bothered. I've been mulling over old books and notes all day. I haven't got a d@mn thing done at work.

I've got another block of 154CM that's been siting in a drawer forever.

I've always wanted to try cutlas grinding a blade, so what the hell? I mean come on, what's a couple of hundred hours of time out of my life for a mediocre knife anyway?

I called a buddy who works in a bronze foundry and he may be able to help me out with a Burr King that would cut my time by about 90%. I've just got to get some scrap and give it a try.

D@mnit.

JWT

[Black Jack]

JWT,

Have you heard of a steel called D2?????

I hear they use it on custom knifes.

[Royal Dragon]

Personally, I LOVE My Ka Bar!! I've got the original WWII version.

Ideally though, I'd like a Ka Bar with a heavier blade. My Mallard is perfect, except the handle came out too small. If I could put a KA Bar handle on it I'd have the perfect knife.

Black Jack, The Knife I always thought was the coolest besides a custom Ka Bar inspired knife was the old EK Warior bowie.

It is not much more than a steel bar, sharpened with paracord wrapped around the dull end for a handle.

The dressy verision was the Swat Bowie, all it had different, was a shiney brass gaurd, and a polished blade.

I just love cave man simple stuff like that. It was a beautiful knife, and I never bought one when I had the chance becaue I had been sending to much $$ on Knives and stuff like that at the time, and my wife (Who divorced me a few years later) was *****ibg big time about my "Useles obsession". Then, years later, after my Divorce (actually as a celabration of it) I decided to to buy one as I was free to with no hassles, only to find out the EK Bowie company went out of buisnes!!!

It's the only knife I really still want for my small collection. I can't find one anywhere though. Damm it, I should of told the ***** to F-off and just bought it when It was avaliable. But who thought a knife that was in production since WWII would just dissapear over night one day.

JWTAYLOR ,
Why don't you get a small belt sander?? It turnes slow enough to have controll, and will shae a blade just fine, or at least rough it out for you. That's better than filing the whole thing by hand right??

I have always waned to buy a bar of ATS 34, and cut myself a blade for an extra Ka Bar handle I have. Once I get it cut and roughly sharp, I could just send it to a local heat treater to harden it up to a Rockwel of 57-59.

[Black Jack]

My golden list of knifes, my favorites for my wish-list collection, for different reasons, here are the base generic labels.

U.S.M.C. KA-BAR

V-42 Stiletto (the knife used by the Black Devil's Brigade in WWII)

Fairbairn/Sykes Commando Dagger

Fairbairn Smachet

WWI Trench Knife

Kukri (A number of different models but I really like the Gurka model)

Fighting Bowie (the Hossom/Keating Bowie is REAL nice looking, so is the Bagwell Hells-Belles, so Szabonic, any nice fighting bowie)

Arkansass Toothpick

Barong

Bolo

Dha

O.S.S. Devil Darts/Push Daggers/Lapel Knifes

Bodkin/Dirks

Balanced throwing blades/irons/spikes

Different military collectable bayonets

Vietnam Era Tomahawk (I know its not a knife, but I mean
come on!)

Sabers

[Royal Dragon]

I've got a Russian Spetznaz Combat throwing Shovel:D

It's my favorite camping tool:D :D

[Daniel Madar]

I started getting into tomahawks and hatchets after reading about the early Tong wars in San Francisco.

http://www.rmjforge.com/eagle_talon_special_forces_tomah.htm

Is something I wouldnt mind checking out.

I am deeply in envy of all of you who are in a position to even attempt to make your own knives.

:(

[JWTAYLOR]

D2 tool steel is extremely common, cheap and easy to get, and it general great steel to use. Fairly easy to work, allot of carbon and chromium, and holds an edge very well. The steel of choice for many knifemakers and for good reason. You can buy it in either bar or rod form. As a matter of fact, I've got blade of D2 sitting in a drawer ready to finish with an edge and pollish right now. Unfortunately, I made the blade shape too long for the belly, so I think the blade itself will fairly impractacle.

BTW, if you want to look up some great performing, incredible looking steel, try "Chainsaw Damascus". You make the block out melting and pounding old chainsaw chains together and then forging from there.

I got the sculpting clay out last night and started mocking up a 7 inch cutlas ground bowie.

JWT

[Royal Dragon]

I'm not really in a position to forge stuff. What I want to do is buy a bar of steel, like ATS 34 since I 1. know where to get it, and 2. I like the ATS 34 custom knife I already have (well, I gave it to Terri, so it's her's now, but h she looks cute with it:p), but the plan is to some day take the bar stock, blue paint it, and trace the Mallard blade with a scribe, and cut it in the saw to rough it out, and then shape it on the slow turneing belt sander. I can vertually sharpen it to a shaveing edge with that sucker and 80 grit paper. I already made some rough blanks out of soft cold rolled 2" flat bar stock, and the shape came out pretty good. The medal is way to soft to ever carry a nice edge, but it was a good exercise in shaping technique and the stock was just scrap we had lying around the shop.

As far as D2 goes, I think Reyrsons carries that. I rember seeing it in thier catalog and going Oooohhhh!! last time I was pricing out a rod of 72"X 1 3/4" for use as a Cudgel

[Jimbo]

I generally like 154CM over ATS34...basically they are almost identical, but 154 is manufactured in the U.S. by Crucible and ATS was a later Japanese version of it, which came into popularity among knifemakers when 154 became short in supply for knives.

Now that 154 is currently widely available, many knife companies that widely used ATS-34 have switched back to 154CM, such as Benchmade, Emerson, Gerber, Camillus, Microtech; or are using it almost exclusively, like MOD (Masters of Defense), etc. Many claim that 154CM is actually a bit "cleaner" than ATS-34, but I don't know myself.

When heat treated to the industry standard for 154CM/ATS34 (59-61Hrc), they seem to resharpen about the same. Emerson's 154CM is a bit softer than most others, at around 57-59Hrc. I find resharpening difficutly has more to do with the thickness and edge grind of the blade to begin with, more than the steel itself, though if you let steels like CPM 440V, etc., get really dull, it will be tough to resharpen even a fairly thinly ground edge. It's also possible some blades come with a lower quality heat treat that affects edge-taking and resharpening.

I would say my personal favorite steels for general use include 440C (when done right), 154CM, and some fixed blades work well with even AUS-6, which some consider a lesser steel, but which is good if done right.
Jim

[Black Jack]

THE TOMAHAWK COMPANY

www.americantomahawk.com

The American Tomahawk Company is a legend in the business.

There Vietnam ranger series is da bomb, so is the Roger Ranger series, all American made baby.

Peter La Gana was a WWII vet who taught tomahawk tatics in the great war and opened up the American Tomahawk Company which sold over 4,000 hawks to the Army/Rangers in the Vietnam war.

I believe he also had a small book out in the 40's on Tomahawk cqb fighting that was called "killing ju jitsu" or something like that or another.

I would love to find a copy.

[Black Jack]

JWT,

Have you thought about the kind of handle you are going to put on your bowie?

One of my favorites and it comes from the riverboat gambler style is the coffin shaped wood handles. If you have a Borders near you, go stop by and take a look at new Knifes magazine, the one with Wesley Snipes on the cover holding his sword straight down in front of him, not the one where he is holding the throwing blade, you will see a great article by Bagwell which showcase a number of his amazing bowies, different styles, steels and so forth, on that article you will see the coffin shaped handle, he seems to use it alot, where many others do not.

In that mag you can also see, if you have not ever seen it already, what some believe is Jim Bowies FIRST bowie knife, the original that was used in the infamous Sandbar duel, its a special exhbit.

It looks like a large butcher knife, that is they say intell you hold it and the differences become very apparant. Very cool stuff.

How long did it take for you to pick up your bladesmith skills to a useable level? It sounds like a skill I would deeply enjoy.

[JWTAYLOR]

Black Jack, really, it's pretty easy to make a mediocre knife. There are a few great books out there, one of my favorites being "the $50 forge".

All you really need to make a knife out of a peice of spring steel is something to make a forge out of (for me it's an old weber bar b que grill) something to move air through it, like a bellows or an old vacume cleaner (I use both) some coal (you can get so d@mn much for so d@mn little it's ridiculous), a vice, a short sledge hammer, some tongs, some welding gloves, a bunch of files (14' flat b@stard files, you'll use allot of them if you're doing it by hand), lots of sand paper, and an anvil. Some people make an anvil out of an old rail road rail. That's cool, but I just went ahead and bought a small anvil for a couple of hundred bucks. BTW, thats a small anvil. A large anvil will cost you $$$. Oh, and you may want some clay and your oven for some fancy heat treatments or at least just some sand. That's all I ever used.

If you've got that stuff, I know it sounds like allot but it's really not, you can make a knife out of just about anything. That's all you need to make different Damascus style blades, flat grind, cutlas grind, hollow grind, chissell grind, etc.

Now, if you have something like a Burr King or a belt sander, a metal lathe, and a polishing wheel, you can REALLy churn out the blades. There are allot of amatures that can churn out a complete knife every couple of days like that.

Even so, you can learn how to do it all and start putting out good blades within months.

The real skill isn't making the blade. That's pretty easy. The real skill is in the details. Making the blade balance how you want it, the grind just right, the blade shape utilitarian, the bevel ideal, etc. That's the hard stuff.

Of course, I'm not getting into making your own fancy guards, pomells, and (heaven forbit, bolsters). I can't make a decent bolster, so I just use handles that include micarta, wood, or leather spacers instead.

As far as handles, I like what is often referred to as the "commando" handle. Single finger cut out just behind the guard and a large handle that is bulged out in the middle. Good, positive grip. I generally like large handles on even small knives. Try butchering a deer with just your hunting knife. You will really appreciate a large handle that is easy on your hands.

Although we often think of the steel of the blade as defining the usefullness of the knife, it is acutally the handle that will have more to do with how you use the knife than the blade. The handle is where YOU connect to the knife.

JWT

[Black Jack]

Thanks JWT,

I am going to go pick up a couple books on the subject, the $50 Forge sounds like a must have, its sounds like a hobby that I would very much enjoy.

Some of those proffessional bladesmiths make some GOOD money from selling there blades.

Cheers.

[Stacey]

why would modern day special forces use a tomahawk? I saw "the partriot" too and I will probably get one....for about 20 bucks. Not 350 bucks. Are they used for sentry removal?

BTW..I've currently wearing my KA Bar on my belt.

SO far my causualty list is

oranges-3
box-1
side of neighbor's shed from 6 feet on first throw- 1 (how gloriously it is weighted. I don't even get such luck from throwers.

[Royal Dragon]

How do you go about checking the hardness of the blade?? I'm assuming your doing your own heat treating, right?

[JWTAYLOR]

Can't. Not anything as objective as a Rockwell test. At least not at home.

The home tests go back to what a knife should do.

Put it in a vice, take a cheater bar and bend it. Bend it at the tip, bend it at the hilt, bend it in the middle. When does it bend, and when does it brake?

Whack it. Whack the blade, whack the belly. Whack it on your anvil, whack it with your hammer. Whack it on a 2/4, whack it on a nail. How does it dent? When does it chip?

Work the blade and test it. Cut up some cardboard. How long does it hold an edge. Cut up a nail, how fast does it dull.

Sharpen it. How fast does it hone up?

Of course, this destroys a knife. So be it. Once you get something that works for you, just keep doing it.

Of course, someone has a better home test. There's just got to be one. But I don't know it.

JWT

[Black Jack]

I read somewhere that you can use a magnet for the purpose of heating and the hardness of the blade, is that really for off, or was that for some different purpose???????

Stacy,

A general tool first, close quater combat, sentry removal if need be next.

[JWTAYLOR]

Never heard of the magnet thing.

There are numerous heat treatments that people use. Lots of different ones in lots of different books.

Some people heat it cherry red and stick in in sand. (Me) Some people heat it kind of a straw color, some stick the blade in different weights of oil, some wrap the blade in clay and then heat it. some heat it then put it in clay. Some just heat the blade bright red and let it cool naturally. Some heat it up once, some heat it up 3 times. One of the most common ways are just o heat it red and dip it in water, then heat it up just a little when you pull it out. There are really tons of different ways, and I'm sure some are better than others.

Some people have incredible results with just a different heat treatement. I haven't really gotten that far yet. I do it my way becuase that's the way I learned and it seems to work well for me.

JWT

[JWTAYLOR]

I just looked at your last link Black Jack.


To tell you the truth, I was really surprised to find such a hatchet online.

I love hatchets. Ever long camping trip I take I bring my hatchet, the first model hatchet Estwing ever made. There's nothing like it. Estwing quality isn't now what it was then. The blade shapek, weight, and feel is now totally different than the one I have.

Anyway, the one you posted online is pretty incredible. I was really surprised. Since I get a discount for being a Reservist, I think I'll buy one.

JWT

[Black Jack]

JWT,

I have a LOT of respect for that company, I remeber after the 9/11 attack the American Tomahawk Company put all orders from military men and women first in order, not only that but if you as a field combat serviceman needed a Tomahawk and could not afford one, they paid for it out of there own pocket and sent it to you on there own risk, there attitude being that we will work out a way to get paid later but are fighting soliders over in the Middle East may need our hawks now.

Where other tactical companies came out with all sorts of new SOG lines in blades and gear to market to the growing trend, I believe with the exception of Emerson, that the American Tomahawk Company was the only one actually not interested in the huge profit to be made, but in helping out as American citizens.

The prices are not bad either, from around $129.95 for a Roger Ranger with a sharpened head to $170.00 for a Vietnam Hawk, all of which come with a lifelong head guarantee, I believe the Next Generation series also comes with a lifelong handle guarantee as well.

Good stuff, glad you liked um.

[vingtsunstudent]

hi redfists
i have 3 of the glock knives as shown & they are a handy little sucker( quiet sturdy) but definitely not a first chioce as a fighter for me.
you could do a lot worse for the their price.
vts

[JWTAYLOR]

BTW, I just reread my heat treating post from last night.

That was allot of crap that I wrote when what I really should have said was

Heat it up real hot. 1400f degrees+
Cool it down. Dip it in water, oil, sand, air cool, etc.
Heat it back up again fairly hot. 400-800f degrees.

Repeat 2 or three times.

Yeesh.

Oh, and if you want just a "hardness" test you can always just just scratch it with a hard metal. See which one scratches. But that won't tell you how tough the blade is, just how hard.

JWT