help teaching womens selfD

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

I'm teaching a womens self defense class for a local feminist group and want any advise I can get. What do you folks think is most important to go over? I have 2 more 2 hour classes. It's being done in as a skill share kinda format. Its really open and everyone tells stories or shares experience or ideas. I'm not much of a grappler yet so I especially need advise on whats most important teach for ground fighting/rape prevention. Any advise would help! Thanks

[jon]

Commen sence.
Might sound kinda obvious but its amazing how much of these type of things most people dont know.

Stay out of shadows, avoid alleyways, walk on the outside of the footpath, try to be aware of the people around you at any given time, never stand with your back to a potensial threat, never let anyone you dont know within your person space, dress and how it can affect movement, potensial weapons.
Then i would go though signs to look out for and how to regonise a genuine threat.
I would also work on first strike mentality and insure that all of them realise this is not 'fighting' its 'escaping'.
Try and work on things that will either avoid the situation in the first place or will give your students an oppontunity to run.

The main advice i give ANY female friend when it comes to fighting are two fold.

1 Use ALL available weapons, keys shoes credit cards handbags ANYTHING!

2 Go strait at the eyes thought or groin forget everything else, speaking as a male i will tell you now. If i tried to attack a women and she was totaly concerned with kicking my nuts into my stomach i would simply pick someone else.


Most rapists and people who prey on women are actualy cowards and are frightened off fairly easily. If they get the impression there chosen target may put up a good fight or may make excessive noice its likely they will simply pick someone else.

I taught my best friend who is female most of this stuff in one afternoon. The very next night some PR!CK tried to rape her, she shoved her thumb into his voicebox and kicked him hard in the nuts, just as i had recomended. It provided her with enough of a gap to run into a more populated area and get help.
Thats an honest true story. It was lucky she still had most of the stuff fresh in her mind, she is still my best friend - thank god.

[dezhen2001]

good advice jon. how goes things? :)

david

[JWTAYLOR]

You have VERY little time there to teach self defense.

I would focus on developing "non victim" habits, and escape techniques.

The easy stuff is the escape techniques. Focus FIRST on what happens when they get to the ground. Mount escapes, side mount escapes, bridging, shrimping. Then move to deploying a weapon from the ground. How do get to your mace, knife, keys, etc. Then focus on what targets to attack when you are on the ground.

THEN go to stand up. How to cover yourself, how to step away, getting off the line of attack. Then how to deploy a weapon, and then what targets to aim for when you are standing.

Developing anti victim habits are the hard part, as it deals with an entire lifestyle change. But it's the important part. There are numerous text that deal with this topic and dozens of teachers that have good material out there.

JWT

[Cody]

Good advice, jon.

I think you are correct re the psychological profile because crimes of this nature are ones of domination/abuse against a perceived weaker victim. A permutation of this: an attacker who would get off on the girl who fights back. Either way, your advice about maintaining personal space can buy psychological and real time. Not letting one's self be cornered in mind or body.

Advice I offer. If someone is getting too close, be conscious of your own body position to give maximum freedom of legs and arms. For instance, not to put both hands drawn to and in front of chest, elbows dropped straight down and bent. An inexperienced woman might do this thinking that would be a good way to maintain distance. It's a good way to get both your wrists grabbed in one hand.

Cody

[Ryu]

Good posts everyone.
This will be my last post for today probably.

The man who gets off on a woman who fights back is a very real possibility. Men don't rape women because they want to have sex, they do it because they hate them. Plain and simple terms.
First off, rape prevention does need groundwork. It's a must in my opinion, but not in the manner of BJJ...although I would cover guard, mount escapes, shrimping, kino mutai, and being able to draw a weapon undetected from a grounded position. (This has danger to it however, in that the person can use the weapon against the victim too.)

Groundfighting for rape prevention should cover realistic positions they will find themselves, (i.e. guard) but should focus on eye gouging, biting ears, nose, throat, blocking strikes the man may throw at her from the ground, etc.

There is a misconception that a man will simply grab a woman and try to hold her down in a rape. That's untrue. He will a lot of times brutalize her. That means punching her face, jumping on her ribs, groundpounding her, etc. It's disgusting and cowardly, but very real. Women need to know a few athletic ways to handle that aggression.

So let's cover that once again. Teaching ground techniques geared to rape defense should be on escaping first and foremost. Mount escapes (good ones!) side control escapes, bridging, and tactics from the guard like eye gouging, biting, etc. IF THE WOMAN IS IN A INFERIOR POSITION ON THE GROUND, EYE GOUGING MIGHT GET HER BEATEN UP BADLY. This is what grapplers are talking about.
To eye gouge someone well and effectively in real life, you need control of that person.

Awareness:
Street awareness is crucial. The Q&A idea is a good one. I like the opportunity for women to discuss and explain scenarios they went through for real. Good awareness deals with understanding
the environment, escape routes, how to locate witnesses, etc. You need to know proper tactics for encroachments, unwanted advances, "strange" questions (often times trying to distract the victim.) etc. Don't make them paranoid, but make them realize self-defense is very real.
Targets like eyes, nose, groin, and throat are good. These targets can be hit by surprise, and are most effective that way.

go over escape and cover. Spend time talking about looking for escape routes, where to run, etc.

A lot of the self-defense for women stuff is almost "fun" in a way... and it doesn't really make the woman understand the immediate violence that happens in such crimes. Some people (and especailly a few movies I just detest :mad: ) tend to make people think kidnappers, criminals, rapists are "struggling internally", "need a friend" etc.

The reality is at that moment they want to hurt and violate you. It's the most immoral and dispicable thing they can do. You have to understand the seriousness of it. But that seriousness can be held in a nice atmosphere, friendly discussions, and good hard training. :)

Good luck

Ryu

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

Thanks for the input. Please keep it coming.

[apoweyn]

what have you been teaching so far? i gathered from your original post that you've already taught a session(s).


stuart b.

[gazza99]

So far, there has been some really good posts on this topic already!
Lets face it though, even between going for the eyes etc..on the ground a woman is at a major disadvantage, dirty tricks may not come even close to allowing her to escape once held on the ground.
If the woman is going to be raped, or whatever, it sometimes works to discust the attacker. If the woman defa(ates on themselves, or urinates, or even vomits, this may turn the attacker off, or at least give them an opening to do something so they may get away.

regards,
Gary

[rogue]

Since the others covered most of the good stuff...

Don't take this wrong but self defense is a serious subject and I don't think your format is the way to teach self defense. Self defense is an ongoing process that is more mental than physical. The longer you learn the mental & physical aspects of self defense the better.

Do you have a background in teaching self defense? If not use your martial arts knowlage to find a good instructor for your group. Check with your city or county womens abuse office and see if they have any qualified trainers.

One thing to teach them is not to be stupid. Criminals & creeps don't care about your rights, don't care for your right to walk any street at night, don't care for your right to express your beliefs, don't care for your right to sleep with a window open, in short they don't care about you at all. So make sure that the number one thing in their mind is getting home in one piece. If that means walking around a bad neighborhood instead of going through it then walk around it. If it means buying fido cheaper dog food so they can ride a bus home then do it. I've seen people put themselves in danger because it was their "right" to do something, go somewhere or say something.

The badguys & gals may have also been watching you and know your routine. See someone twice co-incidence, see someone three times and it's a red flag.

The best self defense is common sense, awareness and avoidence. Know the territory. Any gangs, bad bars, or hangouts around? If yes avoid them.

Don't get into a fight with your attacker. Your goal is to get away not get revenge, make a point or save the next person coming down the street. You are not Xena, Warrior Princess.

Also make sure that you teach them not to think of themselves as victims, it's a mind set that is self-fulfilling. My wife who has zero martial arts knowlege but has a survivor attitude has fought off one rapists/mugger, and has sent several gropers running on NYC subways and the LIRR, and had enough smarts and cool to foil a kidnapping attempt. She will do whatever it takes to survive and protect our kids and will not take sh!t from anybody including me. A good mindset is key to survival.

I see that you're an activist and you're teaching a feminist group, probably have some lesbians in the group, remind them that in that world they may be brutalized by a woman rather than a man.

Buy everyone these books, The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, and Street E & E by Marc MacYoung. The first is a must, the second has some good tactics.

Good Luck

[Oso]

How long are most "Women's self-defense classes"

I've seen day long (8 hour) seminars

I've seen month long 2 hour seminars (8 hours)

I really feel that this type of instruction places a misconception
of confidence in the women attending.

As Jon pointed out, his friend had the stuff fresh in her mind the
next day. Lucky for her. But what if she had not trained the stuff for a couple of months and then it had happened? Would she have had the same reactions?
I don't think so.

Do we train a new student for a month and then let them go full contact, no gloves, no rules?
I don't think so.

I think in an earnest attempt to help and educate women we
actually make a mistake in the day seminar or even the month
long weekly class.

How can 8 hours make a physical difference? It might open some
eyes and make them more aware (BTW I totally agree that it is
the psychology/lifestyle that needs to change. If people in
general, not just women, were just a tad bit more aware of what
was actually going on around them then there would be a lot less
victims in the world.) but can 8 hours train them physically for an
encounter. Hell no.

So what's the answer? I don't know. I think the single woman it
does benefit is reason enough to keep doing it. But what about
the woman who has a false sense of confidence?

A tough question, one i've tried to think about a lot ( in case you
didn't notice )

hoppin' of the soapbox

Matt

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

My backround is in american karate and then I switched to kung fu about 4 or 5 years ago. I have some teaching experience. The feminist group organized this themselves and had originally had a female instructor but decided to have me take over. I taught one class and have 2 more to teach. The'yre going to start having class again after that. It's set up to be in 6, 2 hours classes and then to start from the beginning again to welcome in new women. I also do a self defense skill share at my house but only a few people have stuck arround. I've encouraged all the ladys in the class to study a martial art or take any self defense class they can outside of myself too. They're mostly students and working girls and I offered to do this free for them and any members of the community they can bring in. I'm not trying to instill any false sense of confidence and have offered to teach more often if they want. Unfortanately not everyone sticks arround long term to gain the skills they need and to study for life but I'm trying my best to help share my skills and empower women in the most imediate way I can. I'm trying to cover everything I can and certainly the mental and physical aspects of self defense. I take this very serious and I'm trying to instill the seriousness of self defense in they're thinking. This is the best format the group can have right now being a grass roots activist group without money. We train in a park right now. It's intended to be an ongoing thing and not just the next 2 classes. Thanks for everyones and imput and I hope that clears some stuff up. Please keep it coming. Mark

[Oso]

Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking what you were doing, I
wasn't. In general I think it is a good thing to do anything
that will help. I've just seen too many women come out of
seminar's really pumped up and ready to take on the world,
mostly due to a lot of hype from who ever was teaching.

like I said, tough question and props to you for doing what you
can. Offering something like that as a year round continueing
ed type of thing is the way to go.

Matt

[David Jamieson]

Teach a woman the same way you would teach a man.

My personal opinion is that as you are limited by time and comittment from the students that you should focus on keypoints such as have been mentioned.
Awareness, evasion, avoidance etc.

Maybe break it down for the tactile self defense segment where you focus on a specific number of workable techniques and drill them to death. I would personally arrange a few techniques which dealt with close and very close range techniques.

Encourage them to study more and to always practice.

peace

[rogue]

Sounds like you're on the right track Mark. I agree with that Canadian Kung Lek, (one day you all will be the 51 state KL:D ), small amount of techniques and mucho teaching of awareness and escape.

How about we come up with some drills to teach this stuff for Mark?

One easy one is to take them to different places, like a park, a quiet part of town or just around the neighborhood and just walk. Every once in a while stop and say, "If you were a mugger or rapists, where would you attack from, when would you attack and maybe where would you take your victim?" Have the group analyze the answers. This will help train them to see possible danger zones.

[Ryu]

It's not BS it's actual psychological studies.
Of course rape is a sexual action, but the motivation that goes through most men's minds in a rape is that they want to hurt, dominate, and humiliate the woman in question.

Rapists a lot of times have a selected "victim" in mind. They fantasize about her, stalk her, etc.
Rape is a power thing, it is not a mutual exchange of sexual feelings. Only an idiot would think that.
Rape is about power, dominance, and dealing with feelings of hatred, rejection, and humilation from women.

It sounds like you have no real understanding of the subject.
Do some research, talk to real rape victims, and see what you find out. Have you met anyone who has been raped?? I have.
Several times.

Your attitude and uneducated viewpoints are what endangers women.

Ryu

[Watchman]

That's BS from the modern "politically correct" movement. Sex is sex, rape is for sex whatever the associate emotion or lack of it.

Stumblefist is incorrect. An army of sex offendor and victim therapists say otherwise, and it has nothing to do with being "politically correct".

Rape and sex assault have more to do with the perpetrator's desire for power and control over another human being than it has to do with satisfying a sexual desire. The perps receive have a sexual response to the feeling of power, and not because they are "attracted" to the victim. They also use the sex act as a weapon to violate another person in the most intimate way possible because, again, it makes them feel powerful.

If it just boiled down to a guy wanting sex, he'd be more motivated to purchase the services of a prostitute than to risk a 20 to life prison sentence through forcible rape.

Here's something to put it into perspective:

The youngest victim of sex assault in my home state was a 2 1/2 week old infant, while the oldest victim was an 82 year old woman. The perps of both crimes were in their mid-twenties.

Now tell me exactly what is physically attractive to a guy in his twenties about an infant and a grandmother? The answer is nothing. However, the perps were able to gain a rush of power from the violent domination over, and violation of, another human being. Every other act of sex assault comes about from the same motivation and need for power.

Teach a woman the same way you would teach a man.

I respectfully disagree. Since women are physically, psychologically, and emotionally built different than men, trying to instruct them the same way as men is ultimately fruitless.

Another thing:

While Jon has good advice, it doesn't cover the issue well. 80-90% of most sex assaults are committed by someone the victim already knows and has a relationship with. Therefore, teaching them a bunch of stuff in a limited time-frame setting that deals with "stranger rape" scenarios will cover only 10% of assault situations.

The sad fact is that women have to be more worried about their current boyfriends, Uncle Ted, or Cousin Bill than they do Joe Stranger.

This leads to another issue:

Teaching eye-gouges, nut stomps, and other such tactics is all well and good, but women have a hard time translating the will to do this stuff to a stranger over to someone they know. A woman may have no problem spooning out Joe Stranger's eye, but will hesitate or break when she has to do that to Uncle Ted.

Therefore, in light of the above, more time should be spent teaching the psychology behind building your own self-awareness, and drawing those physical and psychological "barriers" - those lines you won't let ANYONE cross, no matter who they are. You have to teach the will to use whatever tactics you are demonstrating.

Like my Pops taught me, "Guns don't mean **** if there is a coward behind the trigger". The same can be said for ANY physical tactic. Survival is in the will.

Beyond that, woman need to be taught about "Rape Culture" and how they are socialized to be seen as objects, and how not to allow themselves to be maneuvered into that mentality.

Anyone who actually wants to learn more about these issues should put in some volunteer time at their local woman's shelter or victim advocate group. Doing so will clear up a lot of myths perpetuated by society at large.

Ryu's comments the types of groundfighting tactics to be taught are right on the money.

FistOfTheNorthSide:

I teach an ongoing, fully accredited Self-Protection for Women course through my local college, and have also co-authored a text book with a licensed family therapist. I may have some material that can help you. I would also like to know more about the organization you are teaching for.

Shoot me an email at watchman9@hotmail.com

Ryu, could you also shoot me a message as well - I lost your address.

[Sharky]

Where the hell have you been man?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!??!

*does the welcome back dance*

now where the fu.ck is seven.

[Watchman]

P.S. Ryu is correct.

[Ryu]

Watchman!
Out of the shadows man, where have you been?? :)

That was a beautiful post. The best on the thread in my opinion.

Sure I'll shoot you an email.

Ryu

[jon]

Watchman
"While Jon has good advice, it doesn't cover the issue well."
* Sniffle:( Well i tried my hardest and did the best with my limited knowledge.
Agree with you on most rapes occuring though the family or though friends and dates but the ORIGINAL question was actualy simply what to teach women from a self defense standpoint.
My post was not a detailed 'rape defence mentality' essay.
Anyway good post.

David
Doing well buddie, few bruises and my legs hurt like hell but other than that im super fly :D
How are you doing over in Merry ol England? How is the qigung going?

[Watchman]

Now Jon, I DID say that you had good advice, and I meant it. :)

I just wanted to point out that there are deeper issues involved than just teaching some environmental awareness stuff with some punches and kicks. All of that is relevant, of course, but it only touches the surface of the issue and in my experience can be a disservice to the women involved if that's all that is being taught.

[crumpet]

Originally posted by Watchman
[

Teach a woman the same way you would teach a man.

I respectfully disagree. Since women are physically, psychologically, and emotionally built different than men, trying to instruct them the same way as men is ultimately fruitless.
Beyond that, woman need to be taught about "Rape Culture" and how they are socialized to be seen as objects, and how not to allow themselves to be maneuvered into that mentality.


Teaching a woman like a man would mean teaching them the same techniques. If all people think a woman should do in a rape situation is attack the eyes or groin, then most females should just quit their martial arts training right now. Why waste the time and hard training if all it boils down to kicking in the nads and gouging the eyes? If an attacker bear hugs a female, why should her reaction be any different to that of a male being bear hugged? Sure, if she isn't big enough to throw the attacker over her back, then kick him in the nads. And why would males do it any different?

The mistake we make is to try and tell the opposite sex what to do. Regardless of it being a man telling a woman how to react in a rape situation, or whether it's a woman telling a man how to react when his wife is physically and emotionally abusive to him, either way it won't always work. It is better to try and explain where we come from in our perspectives, so we can understand ourselves and each other more. A man can't tell a woman what's the best way to react, a woman can't tell a man the same either. We understand ourselves better than other people and act accordingly. Of course giving tips is great, but taking it to the point of 'I am this sex, I understand how we behave, I know best, take my advice' really isn't always the best advice.

We normally give advice on how WE would react. Because we will never understand the opposite sex, sometimes surprise reactions will truely stun us. For instance, if I attack a female and i think 'Oh yeah, chicks always go for the nads and eyes', then obviously I would protect those areas more. But if a female trains in martial arts and fights 'like a man', and instead of kicking me in the nads, she tries some other trick and i try to attack her more, but she continously counter those attacks, and lays into me like any other guy would, then that would get me to think twice about it.

Eyow, i don't think i'm making much sense anymore. :confused:

[Ryu]

Stumblefist,
You're making a ding-a-ling out of yourself. You can't argue with facts, Watchman teaches courses in Women's self-defense, and has much experience and study in it.
The old "rape gene" argument doesn't hold water in the psychological aspects of the crime. Even rapists themselves talk about what Watchman and I mentioned.

I will give you this. In "animals" (and we are animals) there is a gene to drive the desire to procreate. I will even go as far as saying the "rape gene" stuff does hold water in a purely biological aspect.

But NO rapist goes around saying "I need to procreate I need to procreate." That's almost laughable.
You're simply ignoring the psychological mindset of these people.

You've given no evidence in support of your theory, while Watchman has given direct evidence.
Jumping up and down and crying "Ryu and Watchman are wrong!" and "Their all politically correct tree huggers"
is not an argument.

Ryu

[Watchman]

Stumblefist:

Study the rapists, not the raped to understand their motivations. Understnd the criminal mind, not the psychologists of the modern movements. There are many combinations of emotions going through the minds of criminals.

As part of my Victim Advocate training I have attended two seperate seminars hosted by my local county attorney's office on the psychology of sex offenders. The seminars were instructed by an individual with a Ph.D. in criminal psychology, and who was a court appointed therapist that counseled the sex offenders at the state prison.

I have also tagged along with counselors to sit in on interview sessions with sex offenders incarcerated at the local county jail. I also put in volunteer time at the local women's shelter.

Outside of that, I have done a great deal of personal study on the subject in order to become a better instructor to the students in my courses. Therefore, I believe I have somewhat of an insight on the matter.

There are many combinations of emotions going through the minds of criminals.

I agree. The emotions usually oscillate between the perceived need to fulfill their drives, and the fear of getting caught. It's quite a conflict.

I'll repeat myself: rape and sex assault are about power and control.

Watchman, those arguments have many holes.

Well, you can tell that to the pros I work with who deal with these issues on a daily basis. I get my information from them.

BTW, the "insight" into the criminal rapist's mind that I received from those seminars I mentioned above was enough to make me remove myself twice from the room and literally become physically ill. Understanding how these animals think and the motivations that go into their crimes is a little glimpse into hell.

[Silumkid]

I think Watchman has nailed it pretty much dead-on. One of the best things you can teach is the intent. One can learn every possible physical way to defend themselves, but without the intent to use it the learning is useless. Mindset training, adrenal stress handling...it's all good.

One thing I will disagree with is this predominance I see and hear a lot about the "hit the nads" attack. Men guard this area better than their bank accounts. Test it...walk up to a buddy and just fake a groin shot. Watch how quickly they react and defend that area. It's a viable option, certainly, but not always the best.

[Stacey]

the only effective street defense for women is BJJ.

1`.You grab onto the assailant and put your feet on his hips as you pull him into your guard. Then you wait for him to punch in order to lock him up.

2.Then roll him over into the mount, wear him down and then submit him.



special note: When initiating step one, make sure you are wearing panties if you are in a skirt, otherwise these methds are foolproof.

[rogue]

"80-90% of most sex assaults are committed by someone the victim already knows and has a relationship with. Therefore, teaching them a bunch of stuff in a limited time-frame setting that deals with "stranger rape" scenarios will cover only 10% of assault situations."

While looking in the shadows forgot about the perps right in front of us. I even know a girl who got gang banged by "friends" at a party after she passed out drunk. She didn't remember what exactly happened and never reported it. That goes down as rape in my book.

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

Thanks for all the responses folks. I'm really interested in what everyone thinks about the subject. I deffinately think differences of opion should be dicussed but I do hope it doesn't turn into to much of an arguement.

Stacey said:
the only effective street defense for women is BJJ.

1`.You grab onto the assailant and put your feet on his hips as you pull him into your guard. Then you wait for him to punch in order to lock him up.

2.Then roll him over into the mount, wear him down and then submit him.

I don't study BJJ. I don't have any problem with it as a style but i think it could have the same draw backs that any style can if it's not being tought specifically for womens self defense. I think it could be particularly effective in a date rape situation and one on one attacks. As far as it being the only effective street defense I have my doubts. I wouldn't teach your advise in the case of multiple attackers. I don't think its an ideal aproach in a street encounter especially. An encounter doesn't necasarilly start on the ground and you might not want it to go to the ground.
Mark

[crumpet]

Originally posted by Stacey
the only effective street defense for women is BJJ.

1`.You grab onto the assailant and put your feet on his hips as you pull him into your guard. Then you wait for him to punch in order to lock him up.

2.Then roll him over into the mount, wear him down and then submit him.

special note: When initiating step one, make sure you are wearing panties if you are in a skirt, otherwise these methds are foolproof.

I'll go tell all my friends to quit their kung fu, karate, kickboxing, etc training right now then. gee i wonder how i'm gonna put my foot on an attacker's hip if he bear hugs me from behind? :rolleyes: ooh yeah, i'll wait for him to punch me too, don't be so daft lady! there is no such thing as 'special' defences for women or men, we are all humans and we fight like humans. it is not gender exclusive. my female friends do not fight any differently to me, if all they were concerned about was eye gouging, ball breaking, or trying to overpower me, then they'd be BIG A$$ trouble.

i'll be sure to warn them to wear panties too :rolleyes:

[Ryu]

For the love of God everyone.....keep this thread on track.

[meltdawn]

Man, you guys have completely discounted Stumblefist. Tsk, tsk. As a woman, I have a hard time NOT equating rape with sex. OF COURSE it's a power tip. But it's a SEXUAL power trip. Otherwise there would be men hiding in alleys waiting to smack me upside the head then run away. Babies, old ladies, camels, sex is not only about how pretty someone is. There are SO many layers. you cannot divide sex from the human psyche. It drives a great deal of our emotions and actions. HOW MUCH it drives and controls is the point.

What about male rape? Is the attacker just a bully?

I am not a teacher, but I have had younger kung fu sisters. When I become responsible for showing them applications, I take it very seriously.

It starts in the mind. The highest percent of women who have been raped were coerced. Understand that, you men. Self-defence involving punching and kicking is not effective when she is double-talked into the back seat. She is already there, has allowed herself to be put in this position, and has very little remaining courage. A woman must be focused on the fact that this is HER body, no one else's. That can't be taught in a one-day seminar. And it takes a very sensitive teacher to realise which student may have low self-worth.

The body. Against the type of physical assault the woman will encounter in the street, put yourself in her attacker's shoes. How would you try to restrain her? Or how would you try to disable her? Her first instinct (of course I'm generalizing) will probably be passive... "if I don't fight, I will live". Guys seem to know that a fight is a fight, you don't hold back. My master says "hold the hand, you get hurt." Women tend to value skin, whatever evil sick mean nasty brain it encases. Teach her the attacker doesn't feel the same. Remember that in kung fu, we train to have heart, mind, spirit and intent in every move. The attacker WILL have that. With this mindset, show her the best solution against your attacks, whatever they are. Make your face ugly. Scare the crap out of her. MAKE her react. Give her a taste of what to expect. Appeal to her intellect and not her brawn.

If you can teach over the course of months, ongoing self-defence, you already know what to teach and how to teach it. But if you are just trying to help someone, or perhaps you are a student like myself with responsibilities to newer students, try to instill confidence, and make sure whatever you teach is understood and can be executed. Instill confidence, gravity of the situation and drill, drill, drill.

[Sharky]

Going back to a point discussed earlier: the truth is infact that most women never stick to going to more than one class, or a few. They just aren't interested. You can't make them learn. They have to want to. And that is rare.

My advice, to add on top of what everyone else has said? Well, i don't let my two best (girl) friends walk after dark alone, or with another girl, or fu.ck it, i don't let them walk anywhere at night, i make them get taxi's, or take them myself. Same with my sister or mother. Thankfully, they all totally agree and understand my concerns, as i scared the **** out of them, of how easy it is for a male to get the better of them. I'm glad they're not one of those dumb bit.ches that thinks they are invincible and decide to walk home alone from the other side of town and "it's perfectly safe" cos they " do it all the time ". When i say to some girls you shouldn't walk home alone at night they try to throw a equality trip "oh so just cos i'm a girl, i shouldn't walk home alone, you sexist *******?"

Yes, You dumb bit.ch.

Kung lek, what have you been smoking? Train women like men train? That is bollocks. Sorry, your replies display wisdom 99.9% of the time, but that is nonsense. Men do not have to worry (as much) about rape as women do. It's a totally different set of rules. For a start, if a man WERE to get raped, it would be a different set of groundwork defences that you'd have to train for!! Men are much stronger than women, in general. I mean a LOT stronger. You can't train them the same way. It doesn't make sense.

[Merryprankster]

Stacey--you're a fool. Not a single BJJer advocates pulling guard in any attack situation.

Stumblefist you really are spectacularly, WILLFULLY obtuse.

Here's some food for thought--if you know 5 women, chances are you know somebody who's been coerced into a sexual act involving the genitals.

Anyway, the only BJJ they should be learning is how to control movement, reverse position, and get up. It takes too long to teach proper joint breaks and chokes. It also adds the advantage, as one poster pointed out, of not necessarily going for those eyes and nuts on a person that you thought was a nice guy. You can ADD those techniques in though.

I can think of a bazillion things to do from the guard, but if I had to teach a class in women's self defense, the only thing I would teach is scissor sweep, knee on belly, foot stomp/soccer kick to the face, leave immediately screaming at the top of your lungs the whole time.

Mount escape would be shrimping. Most women do not have the strength to bridge and roll a man, and learning the "sensitivity," necessary to learn WHEN you can do this is going to take too long. Shrimping requires less sensitivity and is also effective for the back seat scenario.

I would teach how to up kick and stand up in base.

I'm going to say this ONE LAST TIME about the ground. You CANNOT effectively throat strike or eye gouge without controlling the opponent first. Get used to it.

[Stacey]

Rape is about power.

Is hunting about food/ economics? No..its about the sport of it.

Neither is rape for sex. Its about loveless animal sex. I don't mean sex with animals...but a lot of animals rape each other.

On that note, be sure to renew your rape licenses. Remember, if she's under the legal limit you can get fined for poaching. In its an altar boy, you can also get fined because they are nearly extinct. Prison inmates and the insane are legal and encouraged by the fish and game department. If you and a sorority girl are drunk and have sex. You still "raped" her...so make sure to have your rape license handy.




The whole pulling into the guard was a sattire, you a fuggin moron if you couldn't figure that out. Oh the above statements weren't meant to be taken seriously, just a social commentary on hunting and they way women are similarly objectified.

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

I'm lucky to have a lot of girls in the class who are comitted and I know will stick arround. Unfortunately there is always the problem of self worth and self esteem and just teaching women that they have the right to hurt or kill someone else to defend their life. They're all really cool amazing girls and I'll tell you one thing none of them would stand for trivializing, sexist language like calling them or other women dumb b.itches. That kind of talk says a lot about how you view women and their empowerment and how unmindful you are sharky.

[Merryprankster]

No Stacy, satire is the onion, America's finest newspaper.

What you wrote was about as funny as what most MMA'ers write about kung fu. It's tiresome to hear the same crap repeated, OVER AND OVER AND....don't you think?

I don't pull guard when somebody is trying to knock my block off---and you don't do "Flower Hands and Embroidery Legs," either.

Feh... here I am being all serious when I should be playing!

[respectmankind]

I don't know about the other guys posting on this thread, but a big guy like me doesn't give a **** about a groin shot. Infact, I have a video of my self tasering my groin, beating it with fists, and hitting it with a pipe. You will probaly say I have built a tolerance, well, how come my friends never drop from those shots? They are not like me at all. I would recomend woman learn to attack the throat and eyes with little restraint and severe force. Those infact, and the easiest places to learn how to hit that will cause severe damage or death. NO MAN ON THIS EARTH WILL SURVIVE A FORCEFUL THROAT SHOT.

[rogue]

"I have a video of my self tasering my groin, beating it with fists, and hitting it with a pipe."

Well, we'll just leave that be...


FistOfTheNorthSide,
You may have to trigger a violent response in some women by calling them a dumb b itch or even using the dreaded "C" word to show them that they can hit to hurt. Others just yelling and shoving them a bit also works. Just make sure to be wearing a very good fight suit when you do. Now these techniques are a last resort to bring out that side of a person, usually when they're being badly abused by their significant other. Sometimes though you'll get someone who will just take the abuse, for them it's the life they know.

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

I don't have acceses to a fight suit. I don't know that the yelling and name calling approach will be needed. I'm friends with the girls and I think we'll really have to work up to that kind of stuff. Right now were going to work on the most basic skills first. we'll see if its needed.

[rogue]

It's definatly a last resort tactic. ;) I did it once and I don't look forward to ever doing it again.

[BrentCarey]

I don't know if you've already done your class, so I'll keep it brief. When I was an assistant instructor, we used to run free women's self-defense clinics every couple of months. Know this: Untrained women tend to be brutal in training.

It's really not very hard to teach most women how to hurt an attacker. They come there mentally prepared for that. Just make sure they know how to avoid hurting their instructor. As the assistant instructor, my job was usually the crash test dummy, and I can tell you from experience that women are much more painful than men, and untrained students are more painful than trained students.

Peace,

- B. A. Carey