Is the majority of muay thai taught in the United States ineffective?

[phantom]

I remember reading somewhere that most of the muay thai taught in the United States is ring, sport-oriented that has limited value for self-defense. Military mauy thai, also known as ler drit, is more effective, as it is strictly for street self-defense. What is the difference between ler drit and sport muay thai? Thanks in advance.

[Mr.Sleazy]

Well, phantom I can't answer your question directly as I am training sport-oriented MuayThai in Canada, not the US, but I think I would give you a mixed answer. The sport-oriented Muay Thai that I am learning I feel would be very street-effective, for several reasons:

1. Regular practice against resisting opponents.
2. Competition which simulates the adrenelin rush of a street encounter.
3. Very hard training.
4. Focus is on the KO, not on points, though there are points involved.
4. Constant practice of very nasty strikes like knees and elbows.

On the other side of the coin, what I am learning has some deficiencies from a street-effective perspective in that:

1. Role-playing training is absent (eg 3 attackers in dark alley yelling profanities type stuff).
2. Fair bit of time spent on high kicks (round-house to head) and spinning back kicks.
3. No teaching of "deadly" moves like temple strikes etc.

So a mixed response, but overall I think sport-MuayThai would be very street-effective mainly because of the very aggressive nature of the sport.

[neito]

i think it would depend on how you train personally. if you train mainly for the ring you might limit your self defense capabilities, but if you train with street fighting in mind, i think you would develope you skills in the right way. you can choose to focus on techniques that are more street affective, and take a more stable stance. also it would help to know vulnerable areas of the body so that you can use your strikes in a more efficiency on the street. i am actually thinking of doing some muay thai training soon. the school i have chosen teaches a style called muay chaiya, which focuses on fore-arm techniques. personally i like kung-fu better but it is hard to get any real training where i live

[omegapoint]

I knew plenty of guys in S.E. Asia who trained Muay Thai in Thailand (most of them Thai). Some could protect their asS on the street and some couldn't. Chaos is really variable. A lot of times there is no time to anticipate or prepare.

I've met a lot of Thai style kickboxers here in the US and many of them could handle themselves on the street. I don't think any of them are considered MuaY Thai World Champ caliber, or even as "hardcore" as far as grueling Thai-style training is concerned.

I guess it's individual specific. If your mental and physical constitution is good, Thai boxing can be a very effective reality fighting system.

[MA fanatic]

I met plenty of muay thai guys who could hold their own in a street fight. Actually, though none of them trained in the self defense version of the art, they could pretty much put a tough guy out of commision with some solid strikes and low kicks. Don't get into this self defense version VS. sport version. You get a good muay thai athlete, and he can kick some ass. Plus, many schools here in the US cross train in shooto, san shou, and bjj. I have not yet met any serious muay thai practitioner who couldn't handle him/herself on the street. Most would handle themselves a whole lot better than students of self defense.
MA fanatic

[Mr.Sleazy]

Again, I do train Sport Muay Thai, but my school also trains in grappling/submission wrestling, self-defence applications, and weapons. When you combine these together with MuayThai, it is pretty formidable.

[Khun Kao Charuad]

Others have already answered the question pretty darned well, but I'd still like to add my own thoughts on this.

One of the lessons that I always try to stress to my students is that Muay Thai is NOT self defense. It is a ring sport. End of story. Other Thai arts such as Lerdrit, Muay Chao Cherk, and Krabi Krabong are where you would find the kinds of techniques you would want for street defense. Now, this truly is an over-simplification of the matter, but it does still hold true... for the most part.

It isn't a question of there being differences in the Muay Thai taught in the USA or Thailand. It's all in intent. Muay Thai is meant to be fought in a ring, with rules, with a referee, and with judges.

But, Muay Thai does go a long way towards preparing someone to defend themselves when push does come to shove. The intense physical training under realistic circumstances gives a Thai boxer a decided advantage. As previously mentioned, a Thai boxer trains against resisting opponents. He learns to defend and retaliate against someone who is trying to take his head off.

One thing that I've noted from my own personal experience. Before I discovered Muay Thai, I trained in Tang Soo Do, Shotokan, and Ninjutsu. While training in each art, I was supposedly learning how to defend myself. Each school I trained with did, in fact, train more realistically than the last. But none of them truly prepared me for Muay Thai. I realize in retrospect that had I ever been faced with an altercation, I would have been sorely pressed to defend myself.

But now after years of Muay Thai training, I *know* that I have the skills to defend myself, but I also *know* that I can be 'taken out' by anyone on any given day. I also am very aware of what I can and cannot do.

For instance, I'm aware that I have no training to defend against an armed attacker. I cannot defend against multiple assailants. I also know that I would be in trouble if my opponent were to attempt to tackle or take me down to the ground.

My point is that before I found Muay Thai, I thought I could defend myself. But after studying Muay Thai, now I realize that I may not be able to defend myself, but I know that I can fight.

Khun Kao

[Kungfu boy]

What I'm learning while it is ring oriented a bit, my teacher makes sure you know how to use it streetwise. One of our guys(whose fighting in the Renegades in Houston) is a prison guard and he says it works pretty well, especially against guys twice his size....

I can see what your saying though, other arts are the same way though. What about sport karate etc.?

[SevenStar]

nah, sport karate is light contact except for kyokushin, if I'm not mistaken. There are some full contact karate tourneys like Sabaki (if they still have that) but aren't the majority of them point fights?

[Shadow Dragon]

Sevenstar is right.

Most sport Karate is light contact, other like Kyokushin are FULL contact with only a few techs forbidden in tournaments.

Peace.

[Leonidas]

Does Muay thai training really destroy your body as much as people say it does. Would someone after 40 even if they can't compete anymore still beable to defend him/herself. The training 'seems' really brutal on your limbs especially the shins.

[Khun Kao Charuad]

Leonidas...

It's a myth. Especially when discussing the long term effects that Muay Thai training would have on your shins. Muay Thai training does the exact opposite, in fact. By kicking and blocking with your shins, your body will begin to adjust to the extreme usage. Your bones will become thicker, more dense to withstand the punishment.

The biggest concerns in Muay Thai are the same concerns you would have if you were a boxer. You could become brain-damaged from taking multiple headshots. You could get your jaw broken or teeth knocked out. You could break your hand.

Basically, you just have to make sure to train smart and train safe. There are crazy amounts of professional quality safety gear for training. It doesn't do you any good if you don't use it.

But remember, accidents do happen. Just make sure you train in such a way as to minimize the potential for them to occur.

Khun Kao

[Budokan]

Don't pick on MT. Most MA styles--as they are taught in the US--are woefully ineffective. In this case, it's not the style but the unqualified instructors that make the art a poor one.