staff gripping in CLF

[yutyeesam]

I notice that in Tat Mau Wong's staff forms, he grips the staff with both hands' palms facing downward. Are all Choy Lay Fut staff forms gripped that way?

Also, what is the advantage of that type of grip compared to the lead-hand-grabbing-palm-up way?

123

[CLFNole]

123:

CLF staff forms are broken up into 3 types: single-head staff (held like a spear), double-head staff (both hands palms down utilizing both ends) and single & double head staff (utilizes both methods).

That type of grip refers to a double headed staff form such as bien gwai kwun, loong hahng kuwn & hung gei pang. The single head staff is seen in dai hung kay dan tow kwun and the combination is seen is sheung garp dan tow kwun.

CLF has other staff sets these are the 5 in the Lee Koon Hung lineage.

Peace.

[yutyeesam]

CLFNole:
Thanks for the info. Do you know if other CMA use the double headed approach of holding the staff? I'd like to think it is unique to CLF, but somehow, I doubt it.
What is the Mui Fah Gwun? He calls it Mui Fah Bin Gwai Gwun - same thing as your Bin Gwai Gwun?

thanks again,
123

[nospam]

We hold our staff (long staff) at the butt. The lead hand fingers do not wrap around the pole, they are 'gripped' to the sides with the index finger 'pointing' straight down the staff. There are obvious times we just grab the staff ie) for wide sweeping power moves.

It is a hard way to learn the staff. We <I>use</I> our staffs as opposed to simply performing sets. If you use the staff in sparring and even 2-person sets, it becomes very apparent why we grip the staffs the way we do - if you like your fingers that is :D

nospam.

[CLFNole]

123:

No unfortunately it is not unique to CLF. Afterall many other styles both northern and southern have staffs and you can only hold it so many ways.

Personally I prefer the single-head style. It is good fo fighting because you keep distance from your opponent and the techniques are very powerful.

Peace.

[yutyeesam]

Nospam:
I'm having a hard time trying to picture how you guys hold your staff. Do you mean that you hold it loosely with the lead hand grip, like a pool stick?

CLFNole:
I tend to prefer the single head way as well. There is an obvious emphasis on the double head way with Tat Mau Wong's school. Did Lee Koon Hung have a particular preference that you recall?

123

[RAIN]

i'd found that the loong haang kwun form have similar movements with the hung gar monkey king staff form . with the exception of the key lun ma strikes .
i know a tibetan white crane form , that is very basic but use the staff like a spear , this form don't have the hard descendent strikes using in hung gar and choy lay fut . but you grip with the hands in oppositte way .

[CLFNole]

123:

I cannot answer that question with 100% certainty, however I will say that he did do dai hung kay a lot for demo's in the US, so I would guess he liked single-head staff as well. Single-head staff with a very long staff is very traditionally southern staff.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

CLFNole-

I just started learning the Dai Hung Kay Guan. Very cool set, but the foot work is very challenging. Is the sheung garp dan tow kwun more advanced than the Dai Hung set? I don't think I've seen my Sifu do that one.

I'm also curious about the Bagwa Sets. I know our system has Bagua Sam. Do you know this set? I don't think I've ever seen my Sifu teach it. Sifu Michael Punsche also lists a Mui Fah Bagua Sam on his school curriculum. Do you know that set also?

Just curious about some of the upper level sets. I'm getting to the end of my Sifu's standard curriculum and I'm wondering what the next stage of my training might be like.

I've still got a few sets to learn though.

So far I've got:

Siu Mui Fah
Sup Ji Kow Dah
Ping Jang
Tuet Jin
Fu-Pow Kuen
Hok Ying Kuen
Block side of the 2-man hand form

Bin Guai Guan
Fu Mei Dan Do
Loong Hung Guan
Cheung Chau Dai Do
Sup Sam Cheung
Dai Pah
Sheung Loong Do
Just started Dai Hung Kay Guan


These are the forms I know I have left to learn:

Right Hand Spear
Sam Ji Guan
Fu Ying Kuen (skipped this to learn Fu-Pow)
Horsebench
2-man staff
Che Kuen Ma (learned it but forgot it)
Bagua Sam
Siu Mui Fah Bagua Sam?
Chor Tau
Chain whip? (not sure if Sifu teaches this one?)
Ching Jong Set
sheung gaap darn tau?
Bak Mo Kuen (not sure if our system has this one?)
Dragon Fan

Sorry kind of got off topic here.

Also, Sifu Michael mentions something called Dat Mo's special staff or something like that. What the heck is that?

All I can say is **** I got a ways to go......

Peace.

[yutyeesam]

I think Boddidharma's special staff was maybe that Monk's Shovel? If it is so, I didn't realize that was in the CLF curriculum

[CLFNole]

Fu-Pow:

Wooa, that's a lot of questions at one time. Dai hung kay kwun is much, much shorter than sheung garp dan kwun. Sheung garp dan is the sup gee kow da of staff sets, very long with a lot of good techniques. Dai hung kay on the surface appears rather easy. It is short but there are a lot of advanced techniques hidden within it. The proper power generation of various moves and the jing that passes through the staff is important. Traditionally this is done with a long, heavy type staff.

I know pak kwa sum kuen. It is a pretty cool form with some stuff not seen in the other sets. No one in the US learned moi fah pak kwa kuen. I have seen it on tape and its ok it has a poon kiu cum jeurng (left) chop choy combo that is not seen in any other form we have.

Bak mo kuen is the longest hand form in our lineage. Lee Koon Hung didn't teach this one to anyone in the US and I'm not sure if Li Siu Hung remembers it. This was not a widespread form throughout our lineage.

The Tamo special staff that Sifu Michael refers to is actual a cane set from Buk Sil Lum. Lee Koon Hung's 3rd brother is a Bak Sil Lum sifu who studied under Yim Sheung Mo one of Ku Yu Cheung's top students.

Peace.

P.S. I think your sifu knows the CLF 3-section staff. This was the old one Lee Koon Hung taught as later on he favored the one passed on to him by Shek Kin. The Shek Kin one is the one that Tat Mau Wong teaches as well as Li Siu Hung and the Hong Kong kung fu brothers.

[Sow Choy]

Fu Pow,

I have learned Mui Fah Baat Gwa Kuen, it is very nice, has a similar pattern to ping Jahng and Baat Gwa Sum Kuen.

And yes we have a Ba Mo Kuen, Li Siu Hung remembers it, I think that is my next form to learn.

Keep training hard!

Joe

[yutyeesam]

How the heck do you guys remember all these forms! That's amazing. What's amazing is that these forms all use similar techniques and elements...

Let me ask you all 2 questions:

1) How do you keep a regular practice of these 30-50 forms? Do you break it up, as in different forms for different days? Are there some forms that fall by the way side that you haven't practiced for years- or do you practice them all pretty regularly?

2)What is your one and only, most favorite form?

123

[nospam]

yutyeesam

The lead hand would grip the staff in a similar fashion as most would, but the fingers do not wrap around the 'bottom' part of the pole except for extended lunges and/or wide sweeps.

So, there is a lot of practise required to make sure the hand/finger strength is there, otherwise the pole easily slips from your grasp. The reason for this grip is that it keeps the fingers from being whacked by the opponent's weapon ie) pole, sword or any other sharp instrument.

If you open your right hand and curl the last 3 fingers into the palm at the 2nd joint (closest to the knuckle - looks like a panther fist), the index (pointing finger) points straight ahead and the thumb is bent at the joint. It 'sounds' weird, but if I were to show you in person...no big deal.

Again, this keeps the lead hand fingers out of harms way. You can use the pole to block, deflect, bridge..etc. We train this way because we train to use the staff, not just perform patterns.

nospam.

[Fu-Pow]

Yat Yee Sam-

Yes it is very difficult to remember all these forms. If I don't practice one of them for a while it takes me few times through to get everything straight. I think that there are many in my lineage , myself included, who have resorted to video taping their forms....just in case.

Sifu Mak recommends just what you said, keeping a schedule and focusing on a couple of forms each day.

Another things to keep in is that some of these forms, especially weapon forms, are quite short.

Other styles or branches may have fewer forms but they might be much longer or more repetitive.

Also, each form builds on the next, they may contain many of the same movements. What I'm saying is, it is not like starting from scratch in each form.

The level that I'm at now the foot work and timing seems to be getting more complex.

[premier]

nospam

I think I understood what the grip is like, but how does it protect your fingers? And isn't it nearly impossible to develope the grip strong it can hold on to the pole when the opponent tries to make you loose your grip?

CLFnole

What's your Seung gup dahn gwun like? Do you think it's the same as ours?

[CLFNole]

Premier:

I can't really say because I have never seen your version. On the Chan Family website I have seen pictures of postures in the form shown by Sifu Lane Louie. Some of the techniques look the same and some are kind of similar but done differently (likely because forms are passed down differently from teacher to teacher).

I don't know about your form but ours is very long. The longest weapon set that we have.

Peace.

[Eddie]

CLFNole, Fu pow and Sow Choy,
Hi guys. Hows everything going? Fu pow, I just visited that german site (Fongs kung fu) again, and as CLFNole said, that " Dat Mo`s Krückstock" translate to Da Mo's Cane. I think is a very old kungfumagazine I saw an article of tat wong and there were some pics of a cane form. I never thought that it was a real form, just thought maybe it was an extra technique maybe from some other style (I have heard before that taekwondo and some tang so do have the cane). Seems pretty cool. So much to learn, so little time :).

I was actually going to ask you guys this before, but never got to do it. Fu Pow mentioned "Dai Pah"and on the fongs kung fu he also have Fook Fu Dai Pah (Tiger Gabel). If im not mistaken, that translates to tiger fork. I did not know we have that form. Is this that 3 pointed fork that you can see on the clfma site? Is it a difficult form to learn?

[RAIN]

in the 1999's november edition of kung fu magazine tat mau wong show the variety of choy lay fut weapons . some of the exotic weapons that he 'd show are the golden coin spear ( gum cheen cheung ) , the half moon monk shovel ( yuet naah chon ) and the caine ( jeung ) .
what type of another exotic weapons exist inside the lkh linaje ?

[Fu-Pow]

Hi Eddie-

Dai Pah is Fook Fu Dai Pah. I'm not sure where this form comes from. The neat thing about the tiger fork is that you can spin the end to catch other bladed weapons.

It's actually a very short form. It's kind of like having the staff,spear and guan do roled into one weapon and many of the movements are very similar to these other weapons. I'm sure it would only take you a couple class sessions to learn the whole thing.

Could someone descripe the gold coin spear to me? Sifu Mak has a weapon that looks like a staff but has a round coin shaped piece attached to the end with 4 wedge shaped cuts in it. Is this the same thing? I think I've seen the half moon monk shovel but I don't think Sifu mak teaches that one.

There is also another weapon that CLF Nole told me about called something like Fong Ti Wah Gik (sp?). It is a spear with a curvy point (snake's tongue spear?) with a half crescent shaped blade attached to the side. I've never seen Sifu do that one, but we have that one in our weapon rack so I assume he knows it. Probably a very advanced form.


Rain-

I think I've already mentioned some of the exotic weapons. CLF has so many weapons and each branch has their own specialty. Do you have my list of forms? It mentions many of them across all branches.

Here some weapons from the list:

Staff Sets

Siu Lum Guan
Bin Guai Seung Tau Guan
Seung Gup Dahn Guan
Poon Lung Seung Tau Guan
Lung Hung Guan
Mui Fa Cheung Guan
Dai Hung Kei Dahn Tau Guan
Hang Jaye Pang
Chuin Lung Da Tau Guan
Chiao-sot Dahn Tau Guan
Ng Dim Mui Fa Guan
Yor Yiao Chi Da Guan
Hau Guan

Spear Sets

Yor Yiao Sup Sam Cheung
Tang Lung (Yow) Cheung
Ngau Lim Cheung
Seh Mau Cheung
Mui Fa Cheung
Dat Mo Guai Cheung
Chahn ? Cheung

Short Bladed Weapons

? ? Dan Do
Siu Mui Fa Dan Do
Bagua Gau ? Dan Do
Mui Fa Dan Do
Bagua Dan Do
Fu Mei Dan Do
Fook Fu Dan Do
Chahn Ma Dan Do (Pudo?)
Siu Mui Fa Seung Do
Sup Ji Mui Fa Seung Do
Chut Sing Mui Fa Seung Do
Bagua Wu Dip Sheung Do
Lung Ying Mui Fa Dan Do
Ching Lung Gim
Da Mo Gim
Gam Lung Gim
Seung Pei Sau
Seung Fu Tau
Sung Lung Gim
Seung Wu Sau Ngau
Sup Ji Mui Fa Dan Do

Long Handled Weapons

Choy Yeung Dai Do
Chun Chau Dai Do
Lahn-Mun-Jaih Do
Gau Wan Dai Do
Sup Ji Dai Pah
Gum Gong Dai Pah
Fook Fu Dai Pah
Fong Tien Wahk Gik
Gam Jung Chahn
Yuet Ngah Chahn
Gau Lung Chah
Chor Tau

Flexible, Etc.

Gam Lung Sin
Mui Fa Bien
Sup Ji Mui Fa Sam Jit Bien
Sam Jit Guan
Sheung Sam Jit Bien
Gau Jit Bien
Fei Do Kuen
Kau Tau Tang
Da Yuet Sin
Fei Lung Sin
Soi Sau Sin
Mui Fa Bien
Seung Teung Choy
Seung Teung Gan

Mixed Weapons

Dan Do Jit Bien
Seung Dan Do

2-man Weapon Sets

Butterfly Swords vs. Buddha’s Warrior Attendant Pole
Bench vs. Pole
Broadsword vs. Spear

Pole vs. Pole
Double Broadsword vs. Bench
Double Broadsword vs. Double Spears
Eighteen-way Pole vs. Eight Diagram Pole
Green Dragon Sword vs. Green Dragon Sword
Three-section Pole vs. Spear

etc.etc.etc.


Good luck learning them all!!!!!

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RAIN]

hey fu pow : maybe we can put all the names in a song , like the pokemon 's song .

choy lay fut weapons . . . . collect them all !!!!

[RAIN]

speaking of weapons ; do you see the straightsword form that tat mau wong show in his panther video ? the form is pretty but too short for a sword form , anybody knows if the form was cut in some parts ? the complete name is muy fah darn gim ?

[CLFNole]

This gim form that you speak off is very basic. Sifu taught it to his daughters and some of the girls in the school. His daughters have forgotten it. None of us guys in the US learned this form, nor wanted to for that matter.

Peace.

[CLFNole]

Fu-Pow:

I was looking at your weapon list and wanted to tell you that Tang Lung Cheung is not a Yow Cheung but rather a Jau Cheong or left side spear. We do have a Yow Cheung as well. Another form in the LKH lineage is Won Hop Cheung which was passed on the Lee Koon Hung from Shek Kin. This is a northern spear form and is far more advanced and difficult than any of the spear forms in our lineage.

Also Siu Lum Kwun is not a CLF form but rather a Jing Mo form.

What do you call the double broadsword form from our lineage? We call it Sheung Loong Do (i didn't see it mentioned so I thought maybe you call it a different name).

Peace.

[buddhapalm]

Hi CLFNole,
You mentioned:

"Also Siu Lum Kwun is not a CLF form but rather a Jing Mo form. "

Can you tell me more about this form ?

How many movements ?

Is there a section where you hit 5 short strikes to the heart rapid-fire ?

Do you hit the ground with the stick then flip it up in the air and catch the other end of the stick, near the conclusion of the set ?

I have a Shaolin Pole from a master who taught in the Canton Jing Mo in the 30's. It is also known as "Dey Sat Kwun"

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Buddhapalm

[CLFNole]

BuddhaPalm:

No that sounds like a different form than the one I know. Siu Lum Kwun is found in a couple of different systems. It is a very basic 2-head staff that teaches the basic blocking and striking techniques as well as how to slide your hands and manipulate the staff.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

CLF Nole-


What do you call the double broadsword form from our lineage? We call it Sheung Loong Do

We call the broadswords the same thing. I think when I initially made the list I was under the impression that they may have been called by one of the other names. However, Sifu Mak later told me that he wasn't sure where our double broadswords comes from but he doesn't think that it is CLF. He also mentioned that our broadswords looks a lot like Lam Chan Fai's double broadsword form which might indicate that it has some other Southern style origin either Hung Ga or Hung Fut or Jow Ga or something else.

I'm a little confused what you are saying about the spear forms.
On our curriculum Sifu Mak mentions two spear forms which are Mui Fah Sup Sam Cheung and Tang Lung Cheung. I've heard the Tang Lung Cheung referred to as "Yow Cheung" is it actually "Jo Cheung." Is there another CLF spear form in our lineage?

Also, what do you mean by Jing Mo? Sifu doesn't teach Siu Lum Guan.

Thanks,

[CLFNole]

Fu Pow:

Jing Mo or Ching Woo as it is known in Madarian is where Siu Lum Kuwn originates. I am guessing that Sifu Mak would teach Bien Gwai Kwun as the 1st staff form since this is the most basic CLF staff set in our curriculum. Siu Lum Kwun is even more basic teaching both basic strikes and blocks as well as how to manipulate the staff.

As far as the spear forms go, we have 3 CLF and 1 northern form from from Shek Kin. The 1st learned is Sup Sam Cheung or Moi Fah Sup Sam Cheung. The 2nd I learned was Tang Loong Cheung which is basically the form from Sifu's book. This is a left handed spear form and was referred to a Jau Cheung or Left Side Spear in the old days. The 3rd form I learned was from Li Siu Hung called Yow Cheung or Right Side Spear. This form is very similar to a staff form and was likely based from staff techniques.

Don't know which ones you guys teach but Tang Loong Cheung is done with the left hand leading and thus is a Jau Cheung.

Li Siu Hung also told me that our double broadsword form may have had its origins from Hung Gar, however it was likely incorporated by one of Lee Koon Hung's sifu's since he was known to demonstrate this form at a young age.

Peace

CLFNole

"With hands fear the young man, with staff fear the old man"

[RAIN]

i'd see the hung sing butterfly knives form from master doc fai wong and is very different from the one performing by tat mau wong . the two forms show the hidden elbow butterfly swords technique , but in a different way .
clf nole do you know if the tat wong's form become from the hung sing branch ?
what do you know about the butterfly knives vs spear form ?

[yutyeesam]

What does "Tang Loong" mean? That's not praying mantis, is it?
CLFNole, you've mentioned that LKH got some forms from Shek Kin...what was his style? He's not CLF is he? Obviously, it really had an impact on LKH, since he decided to incorporate those forms into his curriculum.

123

[CLFNole]

Rain:

Not sure where our butterfly sword form comes from only that its CLF and was passed on to use by Sifu. As far the 2-man form you were talking about its Double Broadsword vs. Spear. TMW likes to do it with Butterfly Knives instead. This is a pretty good 2-man weapon set, however kwan do vs. spear is much better.

123:

Tang Loong means something like spinning or whirling dragon hence the name for the book. Shek Kin was a northern stylist having learned 5 styles: Low Horn Moon, Tong Long, Ying Jow, Siu Lum and the 5th I always forget the name. It is some kind of palming style that you don't see much today. As far as incorporating his forms into the curriculum, regular students would rarely learn any of his forms. Maybe the 3-section staff if they stuck around long enough and that hasn't happened yet. His forms nowadays are taught to basically instructors only. Hope this helps.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

Rain-
Just so you know my Sifu Mak Fai doesn't teach the Shek Kin stuff because he never learned it. Don't feel bad, there is enough purely CLF stuff to keep us all busy for a while.


CLFNole-
Interesting about the Butterfly knife vs. Spear set. I didn't know that it was really for broadswords. I've seen the Guan Do vs. Spear set performed by Liu Siu Hung and Sow Choy...that was wicked awesome:D !!!

Yau Sam :p

[yutyeesam]

Fu Pow-
Your Sifu doesn't teach the 3-section staff form?

Regarding combat forms: What combat hand sets are in the LKH lineage? I know TMW has a Siu Mui Fah Dwei Chuk (although, the moves in there look more like the moves in Siu Sub Ji).

He also has a Sil Lum Gwun Dwei Chuk. Is this in your standard curriculum?

Thanks,
123

[buddhapalm]

Shek Kin,
I can say that one of his styles was Northern Lohan Moon system, he was a student of the famous Lohan Moon Master, Sun Yuk Fung / Sun YuFeng (Saber King of Seven Provinces).

I believe he also practiced Mizong Quan / Mi Zhong Kuen.

Any more info on him would be great.

Is he still alive ? If so where can he be found ?

Cheers

Buddhapalm

[CLFNole]

Shek Kin is in his 80s now, he lives in Hong Kong. He doesn't practice anymore due to his age and trouble with his legs. I hear he is still a fountain of knowledge when it comes to talking about kung fu.

He was supposed to have witnessed the incident when Ku Yu Jeong killed the horse with his iron palm strike.

I don't think he practise mizong, i listed the styles earlier my spellin of Lohan was different. (Law Horn Moon - same thing)

Peace

[RAIN]

palma de buda :


search the topic about the sow choy's return from china and you find many things about shek kin . sow choy was talking with him .

fu pow :

i think you sifu don't have the shek kin side , but he got the bucksam kong side . how much hung ga there is in your school ?

[Sow Choy]

Hello Buddhapalm,

I just was visiting with Grandmaster Shek Kin in Hong Kong. This year, in fact I think this month he turns 90! He spoke of many styles that he had trained in. Eagle Claw, Mantis, Cha Kuen, My Jhong Law Hon, Fan Ji Moon and he spoke of his training in Shut Gow or Shuie Sheau (Chinese Wrestling).

He taught Lee Koon Hung variuos forms and told some very funny stories of teaching Lee Koon Hung Day Tong (falling and Floor work). He said at the time he could not perform those movements and that Lee Koon Hung was very smart and could do it with verbal instructions. But he felt bad for Lee Koon Hung because he kept doing over and over until he got it right.

He showed many pictures from the old days and sopke on various topics, he loves to talk about kung fu. I am very lucky, not sure how long Grandmaster will be with us.

Joe

[Fu-Pow]

Yut Yee Sam-

Yes my Sifu teaches the 3 section staff. I'm not sure of the origin of that one though. Apparently, it is different than the one that Lee Koon Hung taught later on.

Rain-

We don't actually do any Hung Ga in our school. However, as you may know Sifu Mak and Sifu Kong shared a school in Hawaii for a while. I think that Buck Sam Kong's main influence on Sifu Mak was that Sifu added a lot more power to his CLF. For example, in the Lee Koon Hung lineage Biu Jong is done from a horse stance. Sifu Mak changed this to a Bow Stance for more power. Similarily, he changed Chin Ji Cheui in a lot of the moves to a bow stance instead of horse stance.

Yau Sam

[CLFNole]

Fu-Pow:

I think the 3-sec staff form that your sifu teaches is the CLF version. I know Bucksam Kong also learned this form from Lee Koon Hung as did many of his early students.

The Shek Kin version came later on and for some reason or another seems to have replaced that one. I would like to see and someday learn the CLF version.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

Yeah, it's funny you should mention that because when Sifu Michael came to Seattle he was learning some 3-section staff form from Sifu Mak. That must have been the one.

[buddhapalm]

Hi Sow Choy,
Thanks for your comments and reply. It must have been wonderful to meet Shek Kin. Old school.

I would like to ask, is it difficult to be able to talk with him, or ask him any questions ?

The reason I ask is that there are some forms in my system that are related to his version of Lohan/Lawhon Kuen. His Lawhon Sifu, Sun Yuk Fung was a teacher of my Dai Sigung - Ma Kin Fung. Ma Kin Fung and Shek Kin were classmates so to speak.

If anyone has answers to my questions in my research of my system/s, then I am sure he could help me. He is the same age as my Sigung, if he were still alive. My Sifu, Sigung and Dai Sigung have all passed away, so time is running out in my search for the roots of my system.

I would love to be able to speak with him once. Any recommendations on what to do would be very much appreciated.

Sorry to stray off topic guys

Cheers

Buddhapalm

David
teleka@pacbell.net

[Eddie]

In Jacky Chan's Young Master, I think Shek Kin plays the role of the police man. Hiss fighting in that movie is pretty cool, although not to much was shown. I only recenlty saw the Bruce Lee movie for the first time, and I think that Master Shek Kin was a very good looking and very elegant looking man.

CLFNole and Fu pow,
Once again, I (and most other here) have to thank you for all the great info you guys gave us. Pretty cool stuff.

Fu pow, I like siu lum kwan as a basic set, because I feel that basic sets are far more important than advanced sets. Siu Lum Kwan is basic, but it is pretty good.

I have a last question for CLFNole,
you say that Sui lum kwan is from Chin Woo. I know in Kuoshu in Taiwan, they have some standardise forms which you need to learn if you want to become a member of the org. Those are basic forms, I think it is just to serve as guidelines for some members on judging etc. Is this siu lum kwan the same? Is that like the chin woo compulsory staff set?

sorry guys, my hands are freeeezing.
later
ed

[CLFNole]

Not really sure I was told that they taught are variety of basic sets and that you would then go an specialized in say mizong, tong long or ying jow.

Is it cold in S. Africa this time of year?

It's hot as hell here in Florida.

Peace.

[RAIN]

hey guys here in the south , the winter is starting , but we still have some sun days .

i want to thank everybody . this topic is turning better every time .

i want to know if the follows chinese forms names are well writing :

- din cheung doy wu dip do
- muy fah darn gim

also whaT is the translation for " ding " and " doy " ?

i'd was trying to translate spinning dragon spear to spanish and don't finf a word for spinning yet that like me . but he we go with another ones :


siu muy fah kuen ( el pequeño puño de la flor del ciruelo )
siu ping kuen ( el pequeño puño pacifista )
tuet jin kuen ( el puño de la flecha de hierro )
fut ga jerng ( la palma de buda )
joi baat sing kuen ( el puño de los ocho inmortales borrachos )
che kuen ( el puño fundamental )
loong haang kwun ( el palo del dragon caminante )
fu mei darn do ( el sable de cola de tigre )
sam jeet kwun ( el palo de tres segmentos )
fey loong sin ( el abanico del dragon volador )
muy fah darn gim ( la espada de la flor del ciruelo )
wang tao dong ( el banco de madera )

[CLFNole]

Rain:

It should be yin cheung - Spear

Doy - i think refers to vs. this is used commonly with hung gar 2-man sets

We in the LKH lineage usually use the work "chak"

Sheung Do Chak Yin Cheung - Double broadswords vs. Spear

Peace.

[Eddie]

CLFNole,
thanks for the info once again you have been a fountain of knowledge.

If you have ever been to SA, and specially Jo'burg (up central) you would know that during this time of the year we have 4 seasons in one. Mornings start of being freezingly cold, afternoons get pretty hot, and evenings cool down. Then there is also the rainy days. It pretty much sux this time of the year. Down South at the coast, they have the Gunston 500 surfing tournament and the Xgames. Thats because our weather is so un predictable, and this time of the year they have some really cool waves.

Today is much warmer though.