Lung Ying San Sau First Try

[mantis108]

Here it is folk. My debut of Lung Ying San Sau. Just hope it works... :)

This is Sarm Tong Gwo Kiew (from the first form of Lung Ying)

1. Sarm Tong






2. Gwo Kiew (side view)

Gwo Kiew (front view)

This is the first version that was taught to me. I will post the other version as well. We didn't get to do a 2 men application with this one this week. Sunday mornings, what can we say? Enjoy

Mantis108

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[This message was edited by mantis108 on 04-01-01 at 02:24 PM.]

[mantis108]

Can't get it working!

Mantis108

try again laterhttp://content.communities.msn.ca/isapi/fetch.dll?action=show_photo&ID_Community=Mantis108&ID_Topic=2&ID_Message=4

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[mantis108]

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1. Sarm Tong

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2a Gwo Kiu (Side View)

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2b Gwo Kiu (Front View)

Hope this works

Mantis108

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[mantis108]

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Mantis108

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[mantis108]

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Mantis108

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I give up!

[mantis108]

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1 Sarm Tong

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2a Gwo Kiew (Side View)

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2b Gwo Kiew (Front View)

Mantis108

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[This message was edited by mantis108 on 04-01-01 at 05:19 PM.]

[triskellin]

nice pics! we bend a little lower when performing this move though.

[mantis108]

Glad you like it. This move has more than one version and application wise they are slightly different.

Mantis108

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[tnwingtsun]

Keep um coming Mantis! :)

[CLOUD ONE]

Good form.
Please explain what the opponent is doing, for you to execute this move correctly?
What is the timing? If you timed it wrong what would be your next move?

I am not trolling and I wish you would not take things personally.

Yours sincerly,
Cloud one.

[mantis108]

Seriously, your assumption is just... nontheless, your questions here have technical merits. I will answer them. This is my approach and do not represent anything but my own understanding of the technique.

The Sarm Tong is used to intercept (do not block) the opponent's right jab. Make use of footwork.

1) If the jab has commitment (slower more power) to it, it is possible to intercept under the elbow or the tricep. Follow through and trap (temporary) his right arm against his chest. If he resists the trap and forces his right arm toward you or tries to shift stance by withdrawing the front right leg, quickly follow up with Gwo (gor) Kiu. If he's very quick in shifting with his footwork follow through with bik bo double push or Sheung Mah larm dah.

2) If the jab has no commitment (fast) to it (opponent feints), do not withdraw the Sarm Tong hands. Quickly follow with bik bo 3 Soy Kiu (hammer fist) or the Soy Kiu - Bui Gim - Gau Pak combo. The attack should remain at and follow the original line of intended engagement (where the opponent withdrew his hand).

The cross (including elbows), low line kick or slipping (most effective)would possible counter by the opponent. But then that is beyond the scope of this thread.

Please don't add emotion or conclusion to my replies. Thanks. BTW, thanks for the compliment.

Mantis108

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[CLOUD ONE]

Thanks for the reply.
Is this a basic or advanced technique?
From what you are saying you will move to his off-side weather he is commiting or feinting his jab.

What happens if he has a left foot stance and he jabs with his right?
Could or would you do the same move?
Sorry I forgot to mention I know nothing about Lung Ying. From what I hear the stances are different to Pak Mei, but the arm applications are the same. Correct me if I am wrong.
Always willing to learn,
Cloud One.

[mantis108]

"Thanks for the reply.
Is this a basic or advanced technique?"

No problem, I love technical discussion. IMHO, that is no such a thing as a basic or advance technique. A simple straight punch in the hands of the masters is just as devastating as everything else. Although this move is from a novice level form, there are different applictions taught at different stage. It doesn't mean that one application is better than another. It is just that the move is versatile. The advanced practitioner sees more options than the novice that's all.

"From what you are saying you will move to his off-side weather he is commiting or feinting his jab."

It would depend on the opponent. If facing a bigger, faster and smarter opponent, footwork is key for me. Otherwise, a direct approach is just as effective.

"What happens if he has a left foot stance and he jabs with his right?"

Ah... the right hand jab! Either he's a master of boxing or he's an arrogant fighter. This would mean he thinks that I am slow if he opens with the right hand jab. I would have to defang him with Soy Kiu or other hands, but definately defanging first. It's kind of arrogant to open with the right hand jab. For me on the save side, there is not much of a choice.

"Could or would you do the same move?"

After the defanging, yes.

Sorry I forgot to mention I know nothing about Lung Ying. From what I hear the stances are different to Pak Mei, but the arm applications are the same. Correct me if I am wrong.

footwork in Bak Mei appears to be more linear than that of Lung Ying. There are times when Bak Mei have tendency to more stick than to move. Lung Ying would be on the move more. I would think that's the animal spirits that the styles portray.

Always willing to learn,

Always willing to share. :)

Mantis108

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[fiercest tiger]

i dont know any person that would lead with a rear hand punch!!

left foot forward and right punch you said, are you gonna set up using a left hand attack??

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[CLOUD ONE]

Defanging???
Sorry don't understand this term, please elaborate.

F.t
Stupid question!!!

[Kevin Barkman]

Hi Mantis108,

Great pictures - I hope to buy a scanner soon and share some pictures too - good learning tool!

Anyway, some really great applications to Gok Kiew on the LY VCD by Ma Gok Fai.

This move is very difficult to understand. "Not very pretty" - in the words of my Si-Bak. Might take a few years to really understand / be able to apply in a meaningful way. One of those master's techniques!

My compliments - kevin

[triskellin]

what is this vcd you're talking about? is it worth buying? if so where can i get a hold of it? thanks!

[fiercest tiger]

:rolleyes:

also a jab is with the lead hand, get it!

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[fiercest tiger]

have you guys learnt 7 ways of the plum flower yet or seen it?

is it a long form, i think its a long form.

is it an original form or did lum yui gwa make this one up? also whats the main use of it?

thanks guys :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[FIRE HAWK]

This is what i like to see san sao or san sau techniques.Great pictures.

[kull]

Hi Mantis108-

I would disagree with u on bak mei footwork. We do not stick or stay in one place like (Hung?), or even have a tendency to stick.

Bak mei footwork is very fluid and fast, and this is taught from the begining or should have been taught from the begining.

Bak Mei tiger step, hunting step, unicorn step.....all are done with a partner and with power. Just like in a real combat situation.

[mantis108]

Kevin,

Thanks for the support. And looking forward for your pictures also.

F.T.,

The 7 routines of Plum Flower is the final and the highest set. I only know some elements to it and have not seen or learnt entire thing. Only a few people know the entire set. The form is one of the original, I think. As Kevin would put it old session.

Firehawk,

Thanks you and I have to say I hope more Kung Fu folks here would post their San Sau pictures up as well. Like I say before on the Kung Fu board the grapplers proudly presented their techniques. I think we should show them that we can do just that as well.

Kull,

I hear you. And I should have make it clear that I was making the comparison relative to Lung Ying. Truely, Bak Mei has very fluid footwork as well. But if I was to use Bak Mei, I would have captured the inside gates of my opponent and reel him into my fold. Therefore I would appear to stick more so than move. Please free feel to share your opinion on Bak Mei techniques. It is wonderful to have open discussion on techniques. Seems like you mentioned some drills of Bak Mei? Would you care to elaborate from that perspective? Thanks

Mantis108

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[CannonFist]

Mantis108

What does the term Sam Tong and Gwo Kiew mean? I understand from your description of Sam Tong is that one of its uses is that it can be used as a deflecting move. What about the Gwo Kiew? Is it perhaps a deflect with the hand in the top position and a palm strike with the bottom hand.

[mantis108]

CannonFist,

Now we are talking Kung Fu!

Sarm Tong Gor Kiu (Gow Kiew) meant 2 things. The form and the moves.

Sarm Tong Gor Kiu is the first office novice long form. It is to teach how to generate proper "Ging" - Sarm Tong Ging. The move Sarm Tong is best in illustrate this Ging. First step to learn Lung Ying is to understand Sarm Tong Ging. Gor Kiu is crossing the bridge(s). The bridges means either the forearms or a "structure". If someone attacks in certain organized form, that's a structure and it's seen as a bridge. How are you going to cross it? To break it, to deflect it, or to penetrate it? That's answered in the form. That's the main theme of the form. Like Kevin said before, think about the title of the forms. They all mean something. That's Lung Ying's teaching.

The move Sarm Tong, you have a general understanding already. Gor Kiu can be used either as palm strike or a takedown. You can use it as a Chin Na move as well. It should be coming from under the "bridge". Intercept don't block. Enjoy :)

Mantis108

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