State of Kung Fu at sholin temple today

[Liokault]

Ok I was always under the impression that at some point in the past THE (as i know their are many temples called Sholin) Sholin temple stoped functioning?

Now i have seen a demonstration by a 'monk' from sholin. I also have a magazin in front of me with a 'sholin monk' in it making many claims.

Has their been a direct continuation of kung fu at the temple? OR is it as i suspect and thease guys are trying to make money on a large scale useing the sholin name and with the backing of the chinese government?

Also the so called monks look very fit but they could be doing taikwondo as all they seem to do is lots of head kicks and weight training!

[Brad]

The short answear:
After Jet Li's movie Shaolin Temple became a big hit, the government decided to repopulate the temple with wushu "monks". So at the temple they practice a combination of various Shaolin styles compiled from various sources, and modern wushu. I think this was all in the late 70's/early 80's. Now there's also a lot of fake monks wondering around, and demonstrating in shows, etc. in addition to the official monks, trying to capitalize off of their popularity.

[GeneChing]

And the long answer?

[Liokault]

I personaly have a strong feeling that thay are bogus.

Its all very 'traditional' looking but I am sure that the chinses government whould have stoped any martial training at the temple.

[Brad]

Its all very 'traditional' looking but I am sure that the chinses government whould have stoped any martial training at the temple. They did during the cultural revolution. But like I said it was repopulated and the new monks do practice martial arts. Whether they're true shaolin monks or how good they are is widely debated, but I'd say they're defenitely better than the average two hour a day, three day a week hobyist.


And the long answer?
lol, this is where things start to get kind of long ;) But I try to make things a simple as possible :D

[GeneChing]

And there were several more who returned as soon as the heat went down. Actually, while the CR certainly had its effect on Shaolin and Kungfu in general, a lot of people forget that the enforcers all studied martial arts (and still do.) They protected their masters when they could. So practice was kept very alive by the CR, but in a strange underground way. Of course, the red guard was mostly young and disloyal, so certainly a lot of damage was done.

Now in western society, particularly America, it is important to realize there is more separation between military and leaders and they are more heavily armed. Not so for the 3rd world and China. Military in China all practice martial arts. Think it through a little. There's not as many guns in China, so many law enforcement use baton. So what do they practice?

Brad - I appreciate your brevity. We've gone down this road before and it's all in the archives. No use scaring the newbies...
;)

[NYerRoman]

I've read the articles and heard stories regarding the temple, but I have also lived in the Soviet Union when it was "communist".

I have never been to the temple, but the communist reality in a society today should distort much regarding the effeciency of the temple, the practice of Ch'an Buddhism, and even more important the economic survival of those that work, live and rely on the temple for a livelihood.

To be blunt, I read once that some monks were selling Coca-Cola outside the temple to the foreigners after the training was over. THIS HAPPENS. This is what happened in the former USSR. Anyone who can make some money to compensate their income MUST resort to selling Western products...to whom?...to Westerners. To us it may seem silly, and to those who look up to the temple it would seem offensive. But there aren't any alternatives.

So, I believe that the temple is doing its best given the times and conditions, political-economic-social.

WE CANNOT THINK THAT THE TEMPLE IS GOING TO BE LIKE IN THE MOVIES. That is a fantasy that we allow ourselves to drift to, and that is NOT reality. Wouldn't it be cool? Yes. But....hello....it's makebelieve.
Nor can it be like centuries ago.
The communist rule in China is a factor, as the economy, social stratus and focus shift in the minds and priorities of the Chinese.

Plus everyone, especially Americans, should be the first to see that any landmark that attracts tourists and makes money turns automatically into a tourist amusement park.

Therefore the martial arts practiced, and the shape their in, would infact be changed to appeal to people, and just look good.

Peace brothers and sisters.

[Liokault]

NYerRoman


"WE CANNOT THINK THAT THE TEMPLE IS GOING TO BE LIKE IN THE MOVIES. That is a fantasy that we allow ourselves to drift to, and that is NOT reality. Wouldn't it be cool? Yes. But....hello....it's makebelieve.
Nor can it be like centuries ago.
The communist rule in China is a factor, as the economy, social stratus and focus shift in the minds and priorities of the Chinese. "


But my question is are they selling it buy maling it look like the movies or is their a real liniage and tradition carrying on here?

"I have never been to the temple, but the communist reality in a society today should distort much regarding the effeciency of the temple, the practice of Ch'an Buddhism, and even more important the economic survival of those that work, live and rely on the temple for a livelihood. "

I in no way question the effeciency of the guys saying they are from shaolin...its their integrity I question.

I have a friend who has trained in london with one of thease guys....hard to say much about the class as they will not let him do more than press ups.

Also i have been talking to some guys who have visited the temple in the last few years and the main comment they have is that its now a Kung Fu "R" US ware house type affaire (their words not mine).

[NYerRoman]

You know, I'm sure that they're trying to carry on lineage but it is difficult given how the temple is adminstrated and governed.

There are some that believe and want to carry on the tradition, but you have to realize that appealing to a larger crowd makes more money.

The "R" US comment.....follows the amusement park reference.

peace.

[richard sloan]

...that Gene answered the question.

The Four Olds, sometimes even called the Four Tops but they don't sing as near as I can tell, maintain the transmission and the lineage. Not to mention any monks who returned, and the many who went to various other monasteries located both on Shao Shi Shan and elsewhere in the Song range (there are 72, and since this range is in the center of China it attracts spiritual attention), and the many local farmers who also knew various forms.

It is certainly a cloudy issue, one debated ad nauseum certainly. I feel like training with one of the monks has served to clarify much of what passes in these discussions, which if I may be frank, often regurgitate the same statements with few independant verifications- most people rely on what they read or what they are told...however I have found some of the alternate views here rather well thought out in comparison, but still lacking one ingredient for proper formulation.

[Brad]

Hey Gene, did you see the photo of a young Haideng Fashi in Kungfu Elements? Any idea of when that was taken? It has to be my favorite picture in the whole book. That and the ones of Wang Ziping :-)

[GeneChing]

That is a good pic - but not very convincing. I've been working on a Haideng piece for some time. Did you know that he was here in CA for a while? One of my wife's Buddhism Professor's gave me some info on that time but he won't let me publish it. He gave me some leads, but they were dead. It's still on the back burner...