Do u have KO power???

[LEGEND]

For u to be an effective striker which is like every standup fighting style( wing chun, boxing, muy thai etc... ) u need to have KO power rite??? I mean I have rarely seen in real fights where anyone gets KO unless it's between HEAVYWEIGHT type guys. And so isn't the goal of a striker to KO or Knockdown an opponent??? What if he doesn't possess this kind of power...for whatever reasons. Majority of smaller men even in the PROFESSIONAL BOXING/ KICKBOXING circuits doesn't seem to possess KO power. Exceptions like Prince Naseem and others are abound. Hell maybe the reason why BRUCE LEE style of JKD worked was cause simply he had KO power. Most heavy weight guys have KO power without technique...watch FX and see the tough man comps. But it seems that the average man or smaller size man that get into martial arts for confidence and self defense seems to lack this ability. Maybe that is the reason for the popularity of grappling. Many of the more athletic guys out there spend more time lifting weights while the smaller men and so forth for whatever reasons try to develop their martial arts ability. Many of the smaller guys do extremely well grappling bigger guys and often beat them in the sparring. But hell have them spar against a bigger guy and BEJESUS. I guess the question especially in regards to real fights is for u to be effective in a standup fighting style u have to have KO power no???

[Sharky]

no, not yet, i don't think. it would be easy for me to come on here and say i do have knockout power. but i'm getting stronger, and bigger, to help me achieve it. i am nearly there. i am strong for my (no so small) size, stronger than average for my size

and remember it only takes 3 1/2 lbs of pressure to break someones jaw, and, i don't know how much power i'm creating, but i reckon it's more than 3 1/2 pounds.

[Merryprankster]

I don't know.

I was sparring last sunday and knocked a guy down twice with a right hook though. We were wearing some of that almost rigid headgear with the bar across the front (hate that crap, but it's all we had that day.) He had to shake one of them off. I don't know what that means because I'm not that experienced with this whole trying to beat on your opponent thing.

Guess that doesn't really answer the question, does it? I'm 6' and 185 ish.

KO power I think is something you've got or you don't. There are mechanics you can use to improve things, but it just seems to be something you "have."

The guy who kicked the hardest that I've ever seen is about 120 lbs.

Legend--you have to make it up to DC sometime to train!

[LEGEND]

Sharky...yeah but the 3 1/2 pound stuff is all good and all...but it's a fact that if that was the case...peeps be getting KO left and right! And that rarely happens. It's just certain men possess KO power...if u don't have it...whass the point of u studying a striking style???

[rogue]

In some classical styles the strategy was to hit targets like the solar plexus, ribs and other soft body spots. But I have to think that all that makiwara training was partially to harden the hands for attacks to the head. Anybody know how many pounds of pressure it takes to break the bones in the hand?

[chingei]

I have B.O. power.


almost as dangerous

[IronFist]

Do you mean fists with KO power? Or fárts with KO power?

IronFist

[LEGEND]

Merry Prankster...would love to be able to have time to train period...let's just say my life is sooooo "F" up rite now...all I have time for is WORK( quiting my BS job next week ) and skool so it really really depressing. By the way...sounds like u have KO power.

The reason I brought up this topic is that all striking styles objective is to KO an opponent in a real fight. Now...I have trained with several men...and some have the power...mostly guys over 200lbs. If u don't have it...then u may want to switch the grappling...but if u do have it...stick with it!

[Merryprankster]

Maybe--his foot work might have been bad too...I'll reserve judgment until further experimentation on unwilling opponents :)

[Sharky]

"It's just certain men possess KO power...if u don't have it...whass the point of u studying a striking style???"

1) It's easily trainable, if you put the effort into it. Takes a while though.

2) Striking arts are much more popular, they probably out numver grappling schools 20 to 1 in the uk.

Don't have such a defeatist attitude. I doubt i have "take down power" - i bet i couldn't shoot in and take down any half decent grapppler, what's the point in me taking that style?

[beautifulvaley]

sharky I hope yor joking.

whts the point of me studying any style[standup or grappling] if i never plan on fighting because i carry a gun?

Narf NArf

[DelicateSound]

What's the joke? If you can't grapple - don't. Make sure you can do sh!t like sprawl to avoid grappling and keep it in striking distance long enough to bust his ass.


I personally cross-train in Judo, but only as a parachute.

[Sharky]

I was being sarcastic, einstein. he said what's the point in training striking if you can't knock someone out, so i was saying what's the point in me training in grappling if i can't take someone down.

Learn to read into things a little more eh?

[Silumkid]

I would say you don't HAVE to have KO power to be a good striker. You only have to have enough power to cause some damage. 3 1/2 pounds of pressure may indeed be enough to break a jaw but isn't likely to be enough to KO a person. Being able to KO someone is defintely a bonus, but not a necessity.

[Xebsball]

heh

[Stacey]

1. Most people can't take a hit...pros only get 30 percent of the full hit...they rarely take on squar to the face so their head flies back.


2. Palms have more knockout power.

3. Dazing power is good as well. Then you can use throwing power or joint breaking power. If you know where to hit, 10 lbs of pressure can kill a human. Plus there are points for knocking people out.


Now do I have it? Sometimes...when I eat my wheaties.

[Dedication]

I dont know if i have knockout power cuz i never punched someone in teh face full force. But this one time my friend punched me in the balls *anger rose* he was nice(or stupid) enough to let me hit him in the chest. I did an open palm strike and put him into the couch and over the couch and he was winded for a rather long time(i never hit anyone before so i didnt know what i could do). He was about the same size as me but if i woulda hit someone in the face do you tink that woulda knocked them out??????

[Julien]

hmmm...
what would be more likely to knock someone out

your forehead or your fist? (i am looking at forehead...)

[MaFuYee]

i love these b.s. "facts".
3 1/2 lbs to break a jaw - how the fark would we be able to eat, without doing irreprable harm to ourselves? - have you EVER watched a boxing match? - are you trying to tell me professional boxers can't hit with 3.5 lbs of power?

now, i know that when the jaw is hanging open, it is not too difficult to do damage, but, 3.5 lbs ain't gonna bother an arthritic infant.

- 10 lbs of pressure killing someone - feh!
who the hell is feeding you people all the bull shiite? - and how stupid are you all to believe this carp?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i pray that every person i fight has never had there ass whooped by a little dude.

right before i had my surgery i'd say that one out of every 15 - 20 strikes had enough to ko most people. the others would definatley hurt a bit. it seems to be mostly in your head.

[Sharky]

if someones jaw is open, and you hook it, it's gone.

[NPMantis]

Personally I don't think it's something you either have or haven't got, I think it's something you train for though some people can probably get it easier than others. I can hit quite hard but I don't think I the power to KO someone in one hit, I think you attain it after many years of training hard.

Out of intrerest, how does everyone else train their striking power? I would ideally train on a heavy bag, but unfortunately don't have access to one at the moment, I am going to find a gym near me with a bag in a couple of months. At the moment, I mostly do air punching, punching with weights, pad work and pushups - does anyone else have any good suggestions?

[Sharky]

I train weights in the gym, hit the bag, and also work on maximising the efficiency and accuracy of my technique.

[Cranestyle]

What Sharky just said about maximising the accuracy of his technique is probably the key here.
When most people talk about K.O. power they mean just how hard you can sling a punch.
If you are truly accurate in throwing that punch and hit on the point of the jaw or hit the temples or solar plexus you are probably only going to need half as much power to truly do damage. Therefore i reckon everyone who can throw a decent enough punch has some kind of knockout potential, if not power.

[Liokault]

I dont think its somthing you eith have or dont have.

Took me about 10 san shou fights before i got my first knock out. Felt good.

it was kind of scarry as the guy was still standing (just...and kind of swaying lots) but clearly had no ability to defend him self...no reaslsation of what was happening ....and the ref wasnt going to stop the fight or help the guy out. It looked like he was waiting for me to hit the guy again even after i told him that the guy was not aware of what was going on.

I told my oponent to go sit down ...he did so with some help and i never saw him again even after looking around for him so i got no idea if he was ok.

Any way if you think that you have not got knock out power you are doing somthing wrong. Every one....even untrained guys have knock out power......your probably not being agressive enough or not hiting to the jaw.

(BTW im only 5'9 and tend to hit kind of slow compaired to boxers etc)

[sanchezero]

the only real fight I've ever been in was a 1 hit KO. the guy came in swinging, I slipped the punch and hit him just right; mostly luck, I think, as I didn't have a lot of training under my belt.

I'm 5.10 and at the time was 150lbs. He was a little bigger.

[Sharky]

Don't get me wrong, i've knocked people the fu.ck out before. I just don't think i could take everyone, everytime, whereas say, mike tyson probably could.

[rogue]

Legend, maybe you should look into pressure point/Dim Mak.
I've seen George Dillman and Rick Moneymaker knock guys out just by lightly hitting them in a couple of spots on their arms and neck. I've also seen a ki master do a no touch knock out. Maybe you just have weak chi/ki/qui/knees/fleas or something.

Anyways, were you talking about in the ring or street?

Liokault, nice, that showed real class.

[Merryprankster]

Witnessing those guys do those things is not proof of anything. It arouses interest in possibilities, but offers no proof

A Double blind study is necessary to discuss validity.

[Sharky]

A joke rogue?

[DelicateSound]

Ah the good old Randi-Skeptics-Association.

I hear a Rich Mooney joke coming on........ :D



Sharky: I see my suggestion of the "é" was used well :D

You want to see how petty I get when it comes to Victoria Silvstedt :D

[MaFuYee]

dillman is a tool.

[Zapf Dingbat]

I'm 5'7", 135 pounds and I just started training, so I'm still trying to discover what would be my advantage in a fight. I suppose I should get into shape a little more before I delve into it any more.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

zap ... train to hit harder than anyone you know twice your size. your main advantage is going to be your opponents under estimation of your ability because of your size.

there are other advantages (lower center, shorter limbs give less room to get out of chokes and such, leverage, simply being a smaller target and being able to remove your entire person from the line of attack more easily . .. ) but they sure as hell don't outweigh the advantages that having extra mass has. we just have to train twice as hard.

[fa_jing]

I don't think you need to be able to KO someone with your fist in order to be an effective striker. But, you need to be able to hurt the opponent, to make them feel pain, and to stun them. The point is to disable your opponent, doesn't have to be a punch in the head. Could be you dazed him with the punch, then you slammed in a kick, or threw him to the ground, or destroyed his knee.
On the other hand, if your punches do not even cause pain, then your striking will be ineffective.

Just another opinion, we all seem to have one around here. ;)

-FJ

[lowsweep]

Knockout power isnt that hard to come by. A decent boxer of 4-6 months should easily have much more than enough power to knock somebody out with a cross and maybe hooks in a fight. Who said lightweight pofessional boxers and fighters dont hit hard enough to KO? If you have ever seen good professional lightweights fight, they hit crazy hard. Not only do they hit hard, they have really, really good defense, so they dont get hit hard much, and rarely ever take a full shot. That's why there aren't nearly as many KO's as hard punches. Power, or at least enough to KO with a good punch, is fairly common among fighters (not including mcdojo fighters, o' course). Skill, on the other hand, is much harder to come by in large amounts. I can throw a decent punch, but against a good boxer or any good fighter I usually don't get many punches in and get my ass handed to me. Power doesn't win fights alone.

[rogue]

MaFuYee and Merryprankster, that's a very closed minded attitude. Next thing you'll be saying that this guy is off his nut.

"... i know a lot of dki have been talking about the fact that a lot of the no-touch stuff isnt practical... how about in a hold-up situation... he tells you to raise your hands, and you do.. only youre so good at projecting your chi, that he starts to get dizzy, and you overtake him... has anyone thought of that application yet... just a thought i had..."

[Merryprankster]

Rogue, you're KILLING me :)

[rogue]

Ahhh, starting to get dizzy? You are now feeling the power of my ki/chi/qui blast. :eek:

[dre]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LEGEND
For u to be an effective striker which is like every standup fighting style( wing chun, boxing, muy thai etc... ) u need to have KO power rite???

Not really, like Sharky mentioned, some bone breaks don't need lots of power, also, if you have a style that is mixed striking/grappling (mantis) then you're really just striking stuff to break it when it's already in a lock. Likewise grappling styles will often use strikes to "soften up" an opponent so they can apply a technique. Also there are strikes that can seriously hurt the opponent without KO force (eyes, solar plexus, nose, knees, floating ribs).


I mean I have rarely seen in real fights where anyone gets KO unless it's between HEAVYWEIGHT type guys. And so isn't the goal of a striker to KO or Knockdown an opponent???

The KO is a good goal , but if your art teaches how to stomp and low kicking, then a takedown floowed by stomps is good too.

. Most heavy weight guys have KO power without technique...watch FX and see the tough man comps. But it seems that the average man or smaller size man that get into martial arts for confidence and self defense seems to lack this ability.

I am a smally guy. I have KO power, but not with my arms, the one and only time I scored a KO (but then again I don't fight every week Full contact) was with a high roundhouse kick to the head). So I can say I have potential KO power at least.

Maybe that is the reason for the popularity of grappling. Many of the more athletic guys out there spend more time lifting weights while the smaller men and so forth for whatever reasons try to develop their martial arts ability

Personally I do both. I do a lot of Self-resistence type exercies, like push ups etc. I do a lot of flexibility traning. So I try to add to myself as well as my form and power.

Many of the smaller guys do extremely well grappling bigger guys and often beat them in the sparring. But hell have them spar against a bigger guy and BEJESUS. I guess the question especially in regards to real fights is for u to be effective in a standup fighting style u have to have KO power no???

No, not really, ether you can be (a) Dirty with your strikes (b) fast enough to deliver several strikes that will ulitmately KO the opponent or (c) do leg attacks, etc that will take him down and stomp. Those are alternatives to KO

[Kaitain(UK)]

If you land right you can knock most people out - the more muscular they are in the neck the harder it seems to be though. I don't know enough about what causes a knock-out to back this up, but my experience seems to give it credence - I've seen smaller guys get dropped without a huge hit, it needs a lot more to drop someone with a bull neck (whiplash from the hit?)

Generally hitting on a downwards line into the jaw with a cross/overhand will do it. I never knocked anyone out with a hook - it just seemed to daze them enough to land the cross.

I've been dropped with an uppercut before - it landed right on the point of my chin and I went straight down. It wasn't a hard hit but my legs went completely. I think that's one of the sweet spots to hit - also one of the hardest....

Anyone who's knocked someone out/been knocked out - in your experience what punch tended to drop you? With me I always felt most rattled from crosses into the jawline - hooks could be rolled with (althought anyone who's rolled into a hook coming the other way knows what that feels like :).