alright,, does anyone know what the different styles of Tai Chi are about

[logic]

I've been hearing conflicting stories about the different styles of tai chi.

Some say there is only one style of Tai Chi (which is leading me to believe that there is only Wu Shu, but I don't think so)

It seems to me each Kung Fu style has a Tai Chi of it's own.
Which are not all the same techniques(I know because i've been there)

Examples:
www.wahlum.com
www.pailum.com
www.shaolinkungfu.com

They all advertise Tai Chi on their sites.
They are not all the same.
So, this means tai chi has been incorperated into expandsion through out the land just like all Kung Fu styles and all martial arts for that matter.

O.K. I guess thats right.
or can anyone give me some info on this.

[DelicateSound]

Without bothering to check those [in a hurry sorry] I believe some are more combat-oriented, some more centred on relaxation etc.


Over here we just get the sh!tty relaxation for granny's crap.

[David Jamieson]

Chen, Yang, Wu, Sun.

I have also heard of Ng, but I have also been told it is another name for Wu.

peace

[dz]

There are actually 2 Wus:
Wu/Hao and Wu/Ng (Mandarine/Cantonese, if I'm not totally speaking out of my arse).

[GLW]

First, the name Taijiquan (Mandarin pinyin spelling) is not all that old.

The common account of the origin of the art is NOT Zhang Sanfeng. That story has been bandied about for a while but was actually introduced for the first time about 100 years ago. Before that, no one spoke about such origins.

The most common KNOWLEDGABLE beliefs are that the art originated in Chenjiagou (Chen family village) approx. 400 years ago.

chen style is characterized by rhythm changes, spiraling and coiling enrgy, silk reeling, explosive power (fajing) generation that transitions back to soft power, etc....

It has gone through a number of iterations - old frame, new frame, etc....

Then about 150 years ago, the Chens taught a man named Yang Luchan (one of their servants - there are many stories about how he became a servant but the one that was listed BEFORE the rewrites of histoyr had him as an indentured servant - a common thing for poor families to 'sell' their children as servants t make sure they at least survived.

Yang was given his freedom and set up with a job at an herbal shop as an assistant when the elder patriarch of the chen family died. He had been a good servant but also, at that time it would have been very improper for the widow to have a male servant NOT a eunuch.... so, since Yang had been agood servant - the family did right by him.

He taught several places, developed a reputation, and ended up in Beijing. He taught Wu Yusiang (spelling may be off).... Wu later went to the chen village and learned some more. combining the two methods (Yang's already changing style from the Chen family and the other Chen methods from his second Chen teacher), he created the Wu (martial spelling as in Wushu) style. This style has two main branches now but is commonly referred to as Wu/Hao style since Wu taught Hao Weizhen who carried it forward.

Yang Luchan and family later taught Wu Jianquan (there are issues about was it Luchan or his sons but the common belief is that the sons would have been listed as his teachers out of formality due to royal students having to be a higher generation than Wu....

Wu Jianquan took the Beijing frame he learned and devise the Wu style. The spelling or character for this Wu is NOt the same as the earlier wu.

Hao Weizhen was befriended by Sun Lutang. Sun was already reputedly a high level master of Bagua and Xing yi. After helping Hao recover from an illness, Hao taught Sun his Taijiquan. Sun then combined it with his Bagua and Xing yi and created Sun style Taijiquan.

There are other branches as well...but these are the main ones.

They all have certain main principles in common...such as distinguisning between full and empty, one part moving up when another is moving down, one back - the other front, dropping the shoulders and elbows, moving from the center of mass, the use of the torso and waist,....etc...

so, many say that as long as you adhere to the common principles, there is only one Taijiquan....a bit simplistic because they all have unique flavors and strategies. You simply can't do Sun style with the same attitude as Yang or chen like Wu....

There are also newer routines...some of the new ones are quite good...and others are quite bad.

[Fu-Pow]

In my opinion there are as many styles as there are practiioners. And everyone has the "real" style.

[Daniel Madar]

Couple of corrections.

Wu jienquan taiji: this is also referred to as Ng, the cantonese version. It is my understanding that this uses the martial character from Wushu. The creator was manchurian (though he learned from the Yang Family) and adopted a Mandarin Surname since the Qing had become unpopular.

Wu Yu Hsiang: Most likely already mentioned. Created as a fusion of Yang and Chen/Zhao Bao (depending on who you ask). Hao Weizhen took it to a new level, so it became known as Hao style. ((There are currently 3 claimants to being the Lineage holder to this style, btw.)) Supposedly Wu Yu Hsiang derived from non-hao forms looks pretty different, but I would not know. Ah, I just read GLW's post, this may be a repeat.

[Royal Dragon]

The Chen style was founded on the original form from my system, Tai Tzu Chang Chuan, created by Emperor Chao Kuang Yin around 960 AD.

The way I understand it, our 32 move form was combined with Hong Chuan, and Cannon fist to creat the Chen style of Taji, BUT according to Yang Jwing Ming's book there is some evidence to support the theory that both 37 and 64 move Taji forms existed as far back as the Tang dynasty.

If this is true, then the true origin is unknown. Rember, Taji is based on the I Ching, a 2500 some odd year old document. Now, the way I see it, if the writter of that book understood the principals well enough to write them down, it stands to reason ther must have been a phyisical example of it to write about.

Also, what about Wu Tang Taji? they claim to predate Chen by hundred of years.

All Taji has certain uniting commonalitys, right? that being said, it's all authentic, just different expressions of those core principals and movements.


As for Chen Zhang Feng, I believe his grave is marked, and someone has a web site documenting their research inot him, including visiting the villiage he lived his last days out, and was buried at, so we know he was a real person. I am of the belife he created the original 8 postures, or at least the first 4 (Ward off, roll back, press, push). It's a leap of faith, but I'm sure those core 4 or 8 postures made it to Chen villiage and got thrown into the mix with Tai Tzu's 32 move form Hong Chuan and Cannon fist.

I have seen a lineage chart that connected the founder of Li hu Ba fa to Chen Zhang Feng, and on down the line to Chen Wang Ting. How true it is, I don't know, but the logic makes sense if not the reality.

[Fu-Pow]

Rember, Taji is based on the I Ching, a 2500 some odd year old document.

Ummm.....Taiji the theory or Taiji the fighting art?

[Shooter]

Taiji the theory or Taiji the fighting art?

They're the same thing.

[logic]

Thanks for the replies.Now I have a rough idea of the styles.
I found this article when I was roaming on the web.


The history of Tai Chi is a difficult one, since it is often difficult to sort out fact from legend. But we can say loosely, at least, that Tai chi traces its roots back to approximately the 2nd mellennium b.c. with the practice of yoga in ancient India. In China yoga came to be developed into what is called Saolin chuan ("chuan," briefly, means boxing). In the 13th century a.d., a Taoist monk by the name of Chang Sang Feng developed what has come to be known as Tai Chi. Subsequently Tai Chi came to be associated with different families in China. These family names came to designate the different styles of tai chi. The tai chi family or style from which all other current styles or families of Tai Chi developed was the Chen family. A man by the name of Yang, subsequently studied with the Chen family and later modified the Chen style, thus developing the Yang style of Tai Chi Chuan. The Yang style is the most common traditional style of Tai Chi Chuan practiced today. The Yang style has three different forms that are practiced: the simplified form, the short form, and the long form.

[Liokault]

Its interesting that every one here has a very differant answer.

The reason that their are so many differant stlyes of Tai Chi is that they are handed down though familys just like kung fu and so tend to be family styles.

The reason that Tai Chi looks so differant from place to place even inside the same style is that most people learned only the hand form and never picked up the fighting side of the art.

Now this confuses things as Tai Chi is a fighting art first and a form of healthy exersize second. So storys have grown around the littel that most guys teaching Tai Chi know about their "art" and bits have been stolen from other martial arts to fill gaps.
Most of thease storys tend to be that if you practice the hand form and get really really good at it you will become invinciable.

Each differant "teacher" of Tai Chi has changed/made up storys/added things to his art in a individual way so they can look very differant from one another.


If you are really interested in Tai Chi find a very good teacher who can show you the whole art whithout trying to sell you any myths about their empty force or how they can push you across the room with out even touching you (they will never demonstraight this on you but will always use one of their students). This will be a hard task as so few people remain who know the whole art and so few people who want to train in it. Most people want to belive that one day after 10 years of hand form they will be invulnerable and be able to push people around the room with out touching them to.

[Royal Dragon]

You said
"The tai chi family or style from which all other current styles or families of Tai Chi developed was the Chen family"

What about Wu Tang styles that claim to predate Chen style, and also claim to have no connection to Chen style?

I can't rember rthe specifics, I only know that Wu TAng Taji is not connected to Chen, yet it is still here.

Also, there are a few other styles of Taji like Yuanming Zhang's 13 postures Taji form that are not connected to Chen style, and may even predate the Chen.

[Liokault]

DelicateSound

"Without bothering to check those [in a hurry sorry] I believe some are more combat-oriented, some more centred on relaxation etc.


Over here we just get the sh!tty relaxation for granny's crap."

You dont live to far from me DelicatSound. Why dont you come down and see some non-relaxation for granny's crap Tai Chi.


__________________

[GLW]

Royal Dragon,

The Wudang connection to Taijiquan is NOT a verified thing. Try that line of history with scholars who specialize in Taijiquan history such as those who studied under Gu Luxing, and you will get at best polite smiles and at worst laughter.

There are a lot of questions in the history of Taijiquan. The Zhaobao village tries to now lay claim to creating it while the Chen histories detail the chen creation.

You have a number of people who claim they have something older. However, when pressed for it, they may use the name Taijiquan but it does NOT have the historical connection. In fact, most of them tie back to styles like Liu Ho Ba Fa or family styles that are not one thing or another.

The history is fairly clear back about 400 years. Then it gets murky. However, given the Chinese predisposition to make things grander than they are and add mythical figures into things, I would seriously doubt much beyond that anyway.