Read it and Weep - Pak Mei Lineage

[Yum Cha]

...if you read Chinese that is...

Look what I stumbled across:

http://home1.8d8d.com/Life/Club/pakmei.in2000.com/image2/flow.jpg

This is an update to what appears to be a pretty legit Chinese site that has a pretty extensive lineage in the Pak Mei Pai. 5th, 6th and some 7th generation.

Perhaps this is worthy of translation by one of our multi-lingual friends?

[fiercest tiger]

Ha hon hung is 6 from the left and is next to clc son cheung bing lum!


so lets not ***** from now on the rest of you bak mei people we are all brothers as i have mentioned and it is stated on the bak mei lineage...
:D

thanks yummy, i dont know the other two names that are under his maybe leung sui hoy i dont know!

later
FT;)

[Third Degree]

This lineage looks like a Cantonese list of practitioners so I am told.

As Sacha Baron Cohen's alter-ego might say, "Isn't that a bit racialist?!? Is it cause I is Hakka?":D

One of the guys on this list is "Mr Coconut". Mr Coconut could punch coconuts and break them and he challenged CLC. Mr Coconut threw his coconut-breaking punch but CLC used sok-sil and beat him. Mr Coconut then became CLC's student.

Another guy on this list had 3 burglers enter his house with one burgler having a gun. This guy beat them all up and dis-armed the gun-toting burglar. Quite impressive.

Another guy on this list could punch nails into things and so pips Mr Coconut on the list of pounding hard objects with one's fist! :D

[TIger Hand]

Good list,

BUT............!!!!!!!!!!! NOT a complete list at all.

Missing, many names, of CLC students. Even CLC, first student isn't listed!

Not something that can be taken as so called "the last and final word"

No offense to ya Yum Cha, but not very extensive.

18 schools in canton, not including HK and all that is listed is 8 names (excluding his 3 sons)?

[Yum Cha]

Hi Tiger,

Let me be really straight on this, I just found it, I didn't write it, and I can't even read it!

I just want to find out about it. If anybody recognises their sifu, or si-gung or whatever, please say so, and name them. We lo fahn may put together some pieces yet.

My guess? Its a work in progress, and the authors are probably trying to build it taking into account what they learn as the days go by. Then again, I could be wrong.

I have a couple of comments so far that make me think its more cantoneese oriented, the comment above from 3rd degree, and an earlier comment from PMS saying this site was "Cantonese" guys.

Also, there are 15 names under Cheung Lai Cheun, and I heard he had 18 names below his. Simply snippets of information in a puzzle.

And, since you mentioned it, which names do you believe are missing? Who was his first student?

[Pak Mei student]

Yum cha and Tiger

Tiger: I see your si jo name.

Yum Cha: There are no such as thing as Cantonese and Mandarin in writing. I may speak differently than Taiwanese or Tibetan. However, we can read each other's writing.
Please don't twist my words.



Note: HK and Taiwan use complex chinese, which in this case, it is build by Cantonse people. However, all the chinese writing can communicate with each other.

China uses simplified chinese.

NO. It is not very extensive records. Many names are missing.

[Yum Cha]

Welcome back PMS, no intent on twisting your words.

I said:
"...an earlier comment from PMS saying this site was "Cantonese" guys."

My comment was that you had earlier commented that this website (http://pakmei.in2000.com/) was from people in Canton, and the other site (www.pak-mei-lai-chuen-association.com) was from people in HK.

If I am repeating a mis-understanding, please correct me.

Thanks for explaining the simplified versus traditional characters, I was wondering about that. I knew the characters were the same across all dialects though.

Could you please tell me if Ng Nam Ging is on that list?

[Pak Mei student]

Thanks for clearing that up. Or else,other chinese people would think I mislead you.

"My comment was that you had earlier commented that this website (http://pakmei.in2000.com/) was from people in Canton, and the other site (www.pak-mei-lai-chuen-association.com) was from people in HK. "

I never said that. I said http://pakmei.in2000.com/ is made from Gouzhou pak mei. As for this, (www.pak-mei-lai-chuen-association.com) was from Cheung Bing Lam.

However, they change their contents. The Gouzhou use to call Chinse Pak Mei association.(refers to Gouzhou). Now, there are not different. They just said they are made in HK. It doesn't really matter. We are all in the same family.

Yes. Ng nam ging is on the list. He is number three from the left. All the names are not extensive.

[Yum Cha]

Thanks for clearing that up about the Websites and thanks for noting Ng Nam Ging for me.

It seems Tiger Hand and I both have heard of "18 Schools" from the legends of Cheung Lai Cheun. Can you cast any light on that?

[CannonFist]

Check this link out(also in CHinese), its from the same website where you got the part lineage tree of Pak Mei....

http://home1.8d8d.com/Life/Club/pakmei.in2000.com/1.htm

This page basically list the students of Cheung Lai Chuen.

You may be interested to note that there is a Leung Siu Hoi listed as one of the students of Cheung Lai Chuen. Is that your sigung?

My si thai gung, Chang Wai Bok is also listed.

[Lau]

I hope that this shows to everybody that we are all one family. Our duty is to preserve the art together.

Regards, Lau

[EAZ]

Thanks for posting this, really !

[Pak Mei student]

Lau,
I see your lineage. Your sifu is on top of Peter Vaanerart.

http://home1.8d8d.com/Life/Club/pakmei.in2000.com/image2/flow.jpg

[Pak Mei student]

We should preserve our arts. Or else, our arts may lost in this generation or next.


Yum cha:
I can't answer your questions about schools. I am not in that generations. However, I can give you a glimpse of china and hk pak meiIn Gouzhou, there are much more practitioners. Gouzhou practitioners are more than HK. We don't have that much communications in HK. You are right about the numbers. It is around 1000.

In Hk, there is only one official school. It is located in Tsim Shai Tsui. It is no way, the HK police will grants another license to Pak Mei practitioner. Cheung Bing Lam teaches the ex- Hong Kong police Chief. This is the reason, they grants the license in Tsim Shai Tsui. Others in Hk, have to teach privately. . Many Hk people are not interested in learning martial arts. Many teenagers rather study Arcades and karokee, etc. They don't like martial arts.


In Futsan, there is a best sifu in Futsan. He teaches the liberation army.(special unit in the PLA)

[Bolt]

Who would be the Sifu in Futsan? Do you have his name?

[Yum Cha]

Well, nice to see a few friends look in.

Cannon, thanks for the translation, and yes, I knew that Leung Sui Hoy, my Si Gung, was a student of Cheung Lai Cheun.

If you can, would you be so kind as to translate that list of Cheung Lai Cheun's students?

PMS
Yes, the old generation is still a mystery to me as well. These were men of a much different cut than we today. I think of them as the last of the old ones, but in their day, they had their old ones too.

Thanks for the little view into Pak Mei life in China. One day, I hope to visit with my Sifu and meet some of his family.

Just another question, one for fun, have you ever heard of a Guangzhou fighter named "Bahng" or something like that. He went to Futsan and fought some great tournament, or challenge? He was a champion, perhaps from the 60s or 70's but I'm just guessing.

[fiercest tiger]

his brother was BANG BANG, BANG aka 9MM! hehehe sorry bro:D

Can you tell me when leung soi hoy left HHH and started his tarining with CLC?

cheers
FT

[Yum Cha]

I don't know. I get the feeling that he was one of the juniors when CLC, HHH and LYG hung out together in Guangzhou, but that is only my guesswork.

[BSH]

Maybe I'm a traditionalist, but can't there only be one Grandmaster of a system. The Grandmaster of a system will know the lineage.

I know that when a Grandmaster dies without a properly named inheritor(sp?), multiple people claim the title and factions begin.

Forgive my ingnorance, but how many Grandmasters of Bak Mei are there?

[TIger Hand]

Yum cha-

sorry didn't get back sooner. little busy these days.

I don't recall the name of CLC 1st student off the top of my head, but i know it when i see it. I do know he was a General, or some top military officer in the KMT or maybe the old ching army. Either case he was killed in WWII fighting the japs.

Some names that are missing....for starters, some well known names in the media...,ie Chan Jor, kwong Man Fong, Ng Yiu's brother,................

Oh yeah, their are 14 names under CLC, i forgot to move the space bar over. 3 of them are his sons, which leaves 11, still very small for such a famous master as CLC.

[CannonFist]

Sorry my Chinese is not good enough to translate it. I was able to recognise the name Leung Siu Hoy because it has relatively easier characters for me. I recognise words here and there and I sort of guess what its about.

[Shaolin Master]

Chen Guo Hua, Li Chuen, Li Da Yan, Li Han Jiou, He Shi Si, Chen Shi Wu, Liang Shao Hai, Wu Hua, Huang Zhi Shan, Guo Shi Jing, Li Shi Jiang, Wu Da De, Wu Nan Jing, Xia Han Xiong, Luo Hua, Yan Xiong, Cang Bao Shan, Cang Lien Fu, Zhang Ji Mau, Tan Le Tai, etc.....

[Yum Cha]

Thanks SM.

Hey Cannon, thanks anyhow.

Anybody want to have a go in Cantonese? <grin>.

[Shaolin Master]

I knew you southerners would ask :-),

here goes

Chan Gok Wah, Lei Chuen, Lei Dai On, Lei Hon Jow, Ho Sup Sei, Chan Sup Ng, Leung Siu Hoi, Ng Wah, Wong Ji San, Guoc Sek Jeng, Lei Sai Kueng, Ng Dai Dac, Ng Nan Geng, Ha Hon Hong, Lou Wah, Yan Hong, Tsang Biu San, Tsang Yan Fu, Tsang Chek Mak, Dan Lok Toi, etc.....

[Yum Cha]

Ei- Yah!

SM, I bei san in your direction!

[small]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure this site is from Hong Kong, not Canton. It is under the direction of Mr. Wong. The goal of the lineage is to be inclusive of Pak Mei worldwide. There is an email link to inform them of disciples that they do not know about. They can verify. There is now an english version of the lineage as well. It has expanded quite alot since this thread was originally posted.

[tnwingtsun]

"Chan Jor",in NYC?

If so.


He likes to be called "Chan(Seuy) Dor.

When I met him I called him "SIR".

[TIger Hand]

Tn-

So......you call him "SIR", I call him Si Suk

What's your point?

[tnwingtsun]

If you have the honor to call him " Si Suk" and him reconize

you as his student then you are in good hands,I salute you,

maybe,pehaps we have met before,my point being that I am not up

on the Chinese Kung-fu "Chain of Command" and the proper

Chinese terms,so I resort to my Military roots of respect and

use the English term "SIR".


Peace,TIger Hand,live long and prosper.

[tnwingtsun]

If you have the honor to call him " Si Suk" and him reconize

you as his student then you are in good hands,I salute you,

maybe,pehaps we have met before,my point being that I am not up

on the Chinese Kung-fu "Chain of Command" and the proper

Chinese terms,so I resort to my Military roots of respect and

use the English term "SIR".


Peace,TIger Hand,live long and prosper.