Shoulder Strength

[tri2bmt]

What exercises would you guys recommend for building up the shoulders in mass and strength?
I'm open to weights or bodyweight exercises or whatever. My focus though, is on strength that can easily be applied.
Thanks.

[NPMantis]

****, stupid thing, I wrote a really long reply and it deleted it. OK, well here's my reply again (shortened version):

- Weights :

Military press or press behind neck - barbell/dumbell held above head with arms nearly straight (pointing directly up in air) lower to just above shoulders then back up again. Many other shoulder exercise but I'd recommend these two the most (one involves bringing arms down with weight in front of face and other behind head).


- Bodyweight :

Hand stand (against wall if you want, either static or raise and lower yourself)
Hindu Squats (see below link)

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/153combat2.html

- Other:

Sparring, if that doesn't do it for you, spar with one arm, after a few mins you'll feel it!

Hope this helps!

[IronFist]

I dunno. When I used to bodybuild my shoulders were always huge. I'm not even joking when I say I could work them out once a month and they would still always be my best bodypart. Also, I could always do things like shoulder flies with way more weight than the people who were bigger than me. Weird, eh?

That being said, here is what I would recommend for optimal shoulder size and strength:

The shoulder can be broken down into three parts: the front, middle, and rear head. Do not neglect the rear head. Generally speaking, it is best to train front and side heads on chest/tricep/shoulder day and the rear head on back/biceps/forearms day.

Some of the best exercises for each head are as follows:

Front head: Overhead movements. Things like military press (do it to the front of your head, not the back. Can be done standing, sitting, or in a smith machine), overhead dumbell press, arnold press. Some people like the exercise where you hold a dumbell in front of you and raise it up so that your arm is parallel to the floor, but personally I don't like this one. People tend to cheat and sway a lot during this exercise, so a lot of the motion tends to come from momentum instead of strength (kind of like when people cheat in barbell or dumbell curls).

Side head: Shoulder flies (I think that's what they're called; it's the one where you bring your arms up to the sides). Please make sure you get the motion right. Not including squats, I think this is the exercise I see done wrong the most. Go to Borders and look in Arnold's Encyclopedia to find this exercise and the proper way to do it. Or, go to the library and photocopy the pages that show how to do it and take them to the gym with you. Do not just go ask someone, because there is a good chance you will be shown wrong. Here are some key points:

1. Keep your elbows around 135 degrees throughout the entire movement (this is halfway between straight and your elbow at a right angle)

2. As you move the weight up to shoulder level, your pinky should be higher than your thumb; in other words, imagine that the dumbells are pitchers and that you are pouring some water out of them.

3. At the top, your elbows should be higher than, or at the same level as, your fists. Too many people do this movement with their hands a lot higher than their elbows for the whole thing, and this takes a lot of emphasis off of the side deltoid, which is the one we're trying to work, and places it on the front deltoid.

4. Keep your back arched, and try to minimize swaying (cheating).

Rear head: Did I mention not to neglect the rear head? People sometimes get nicely developed front and side heads but then the back of their shoulder looks flat. The rear head is the smallest head, so I guess people tend to ignore it. When developed in proportion to the rest of your deltoid heads, you will have a cool looking little bulge in the back of your shoulders. Personally, I think that it looks cool, especially if your traps stick out right next to it when viewed from the side.

Now, the rear head is the hardest to hit, so there's two main exercises that I recommend. 1. You can do shoudler flies as above, except bend over more so the rear head is pulling up the weight. You will have to use less weight than for training the side head. 2. You know those pec-deck machine things? Well, they suck for your chest, but if you have one where you can adjust it to sit on it backwards and reposition the arm things you can effectively hit your rear delts. I can't explain this, but your gym owner should be able to show you how to change the machine around if you don't know what I'm talking about.

note: while I usually only seldomly recommend machines, I do feel that reverse pec-deck flies for your rear delts are a pretty cool exercise, especially considering that this muscle requires precise control to hit in the first place

Oh yeah, deadlift can hit your rear delts pretty well, too :)

So, those are my choice shoulder exercises. If you want size, do them bodybuilding style. If you want strength, do less reps, more weight, more time between sets, and maybe only like 2 or 3 sets.

Oh yeah, there are other cool shoulder exercises like side press, and this other one that I cannot think of the name of right now. Check out Pavel's book "Power to the People" for detailed explination of the side press. His board or archives at www.dragondoor.com should have info, too.

Handstand pushups are always cool, too. They work the front delts.

IronFist

[IronFist]

inic, pullups work the rear delts a bit, but it's secondary to the biceps/lats. Pullups don't place significant stress on the shoulder muscles at all. Sorry. If you're feeling pullups in your shoulders you're doing something wrong.

IronFist

[IronFist]

Originally posted by inic
i wasnt sure if they worked the shoulders... i knew they worked some muslces around the shoulder. wouldnt they at least make us shoulders appear larger?

How would they make your shoulders appear larger? When you do pullups, the front and side deltoids are the antagonist muscles of the muscles being worked. By definition, this means they are 100% inactive. Rear deltoids are an exception, but they are hit only secondary to biceps and lats and stuff.

If your shoulders look cool when you do pullups and that's why you thought they were getting worked, it's just because if you have low bodyfat and your shoulders are getting stretched, you can see striations and stuff.

But yeah, pullups don't hit the shoulders at all.

IronFist

[tri2bmt]

How about deadlift affecting the rear head or how about making small circle rotations with your arms out parallel?
I have trouble doing the one you described for the rear head, Ironfist.

[SSgungfu]

You won't be able to create massive shoulders unless you are training for massive shoulders. What I'm trying to say is don't expect overnight results.

You need to work your upper back, chest and arms ALONG with your shoulders in order to gain the "mass" look/physique you are going for. This is coupled with eating alot (where the mass part comes in).

Progressive training along with your martial training will build them nicely. Keep up the pullups and pushups. Also: military press, shrugs, flyes seem to build the shoulders the best (along with the other body parts that surround and support them.)
-----------------------------
I know having an underdeveloped body part can be annoying as hell and drive you to train it more then ever.

Try to focus on your stregnth developement and not to obsess over how a bodypart looks. In my experience with that, I trained it more- doing countless shrugs and presses. It made them bigger, but I neglected my overall strength/attributes.

Just stay moderated in your training. :)

-SS