Alternate Sparring/SD training.

[DelicateSound]

OK - this is kind of a weird issue, but one I think relevant to all Martial Artists who train for self-protection.

Is sparring unrealistic? And should/could it be altered to make it a better representation of a street situation?


To expand, most sparring is conducted in a sport-fighting style, usually semi-contact it centres around ones ability to defeat, by superior technique, an opponant of the same style.

However, in a street situation it's nothing like this. No gloves, no soft-floor, no head-gear and almost certainly no opponant of similar style.

In the street, is a Judo guy [who only ever spars to move in, take hold and throw] really going to be able to react to the saturday-night-special?


What are your views on "realistic" sparring where one person attacks with general techniques and the other reacts with the moves from that art. Has anyone had experience in this? How did it change your views on your art/fighting etc. and how did you have to adapt?






All opinions welcome :)

[Dark Knight]

It depends on how yuo spar. I train with striking, throws and submissions. This is very common today, (Ill bet quit a few who respond do this also) if you are not used to getting hit hard you will be shocked the first time it happens.

Judo people and other styles that practice against a resisting opponent are going to have an advantage. They know what its like to have a resisting opponent, they know how to move with a fighter and they know what it feels like to get dropped hard. The same can be said about kickboxers, or other styles that train full contact.

Sparring is not the end all. Its part of that big circle around fighting. Drills, bag work, Techniques, forms, stregth and conditioning....

Sparring should be part of your training, you can be successful without it, but it will help sharpen you.

[Merryprankster]

What Dark Knight said. Except I think that without sparring, your chances of dealing with an attack are FAR FAR less than "might be successful." :)

[DelicateSound]

I'm all for sparring and rolling [I'm an ex-Judo guy, and have sparred full-contact Kung-Fu] but I'm talking about more realistic stuff.


e.g: Geoff Thompson does a routine where 2 guys [padded up] face off and play out a realistic situation. On guy plays the "defender" the other an aggressor. This includes pre-match dialogue and aggressive behaviour.

It IMHO gives a better rerpresentation of "real" combat, as you see how dialogue is a lead-in to a sucker punch or headbutt.

[Merryprankster]

Oh no--I understood what you were saying--scenario drills are important too.

But that's what Dark Knight was saying too. And I was agreeing with him.

[Dark Knight]

"Except I think that without sparring, your chances of dealing with an attack are FAR FAR less than "might be successful."

Ill agree with you on this

[apoweyn]

to my mind, it comes down to this: you're only going to be able to simulate so many things at any given time.

in forms, drills, or one-step sparring, you can simulate the really choice targets but not the contact or the full resistance.

in sparring, you can simulate contact, adrenaline, full resistance, etc. but not all the choice targets.

in weapons sparring, you can simulate the flow and general mayhem but not the real trauma of getting hit with a weapon (especially a blade).

and so on.

i suppose the real trick is to come up with a training regimen that allows you to cover all these bases at different times. hopefully, the amalgamated experience will provide background enough to carry you through.


stuart b.

[red5angel]

I say the best training regimen for reality fighting is going to your local bar, picking the biggest and the baddest every friday night and start swinging........;)

[yenhoi]

Im with red5.

You can also goto other Kwoons and dojos and training centers and what not and ask to sparr.

Some people will start *****ing about the legal ramifications and whatever else comes along with this, but the alternative is fighting on the rooftops of hong kong.

[Braden]

randori counts as sparring??

[Merryprankster]

Sure--why not? A lot of places the fight stops when it hits the ground too--they might "pretend whack," the guy on the ground a bit, he acknowledges he "lost," and you keep going.

Is it just not sparring because nobody is throwing punches and kicks?

[Braden]

That's what I'm asking. ;)

So what must be met for an activity to be "sparring"?

[Merryprankster]

Personally I believe that sparring is:

Going at it full/close to full speed with no fewer than the full range of techniques typically expressed in your style.

When boxers spar, they don't kick, wrestlers don't punch, etc.

They are certainly sparring though, wouldn't you think? I mean, if a KF Kwoon didn't let the fight continue on the ground, I think I would still term what they are doing as sparring.

I mean, I wouldn't classify jab sparring as sparring per se--it's more of an exercise to help develop a piece of the puzzle, kind of like just working on your striking and evading might be for a KF guy.

[Braden]

Ok. "Full range of techniques EXPRESSED BY YOUR STYLE" makes sense. I just don't tend to think of styles being limited that way, so much as being tools / collections of training methods to improve the entire game. So looking at it that way made the nomenclature seem kind of arbitrary.

[Merryprankster]

Well, I think the nomenclature probably is arbitrary. :) It certainly varies from arena to arena--in the sense that different places have different rules and safety gear and what-not when it comes to "sparring."