bai si

[mun hung]

Has anyone ever "bai si" to their SiFu? What are the customary procedures in the ceremony? Was it at the beginning, middle or end of your training? In your opinion, does it really matter?

Should this kung fu tradition be kept alive?

[anerlich]

I've not done this, and I doubt my Sifu would follow such a custom anyway, but there is a pretty good article on it on Rene Ritchie's site:

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/journal/features/crescione_baisi.shtml

[yuanfen]

We don't do baisi. I dont think that Yip man required a formal baisi ceremony. At least dont know of one. A generation after Yip man some lines appear to have a baisi ceremony.
I do think that one should honor one's teacher and the related values should be preserved. But the expression of those values
need not be through baisi. I have trouble visualizing an Okie in
Wetumpka baisi-ing to another Okie with edges of his overalls showing through his chinese clothing. I would rather that one honors the other, the teacher feels an obligation to bring the student along in his development and that both do the tan sao well.

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


A lot of modern practitioners do not do this but many mainland lineages do. That also includes other arts than WC. I know that in Leung Jan's Koo Lo village Pin Sun Wing Chun family we Ba Si but this is only if you are a private pupil and very few are within the inner circle. Many traditional systems still perform ceremony if your a dedicated (after a certain ammount of time) pupil with the desire to learn and preserve their tradition. This doesnt mean you cant learn an art without going thru this procedure or it will make you any better but if you understand the mentality of the older generations from the mainland and less wide spread arts you would understand that it is important to them in a traditional family sort of way.


Just some info from someone who has gone thru this!


Regards,
Jim

[byond]

hey guys,
hey jim...hows boston treating you???....im off for a vacation...
quick question....if you went to a kung fu school (to be traditional) what is the proper way to ask a sifu to admit you into the school?? should a red pouch be given????

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Boston is great.

If you went to a Kung Fu school you would probally not need to do anything but find out how to join! If you met a sifu that was privately teaching a few then there could be a few things you might do.

First I would suggest just introducing yourself and possibly invite him or her for tea or a meal. If he is traditional he will probally not accept the first time and tell you to come back when he has more free time (this could happen more than once). Be patient! A letter of introduction or knowing someone would greatly help. If that is not possible then visit him again and try to speak with him more and tell him your desires. You will know if he is planning on possibly allowing you to come in. If things go ok then perhaps a red envelope with some money in it that will be in Chinese lucky numerology (36/72/108). You could also bring some fruits or a chicken etc.. Get the idea! This is all based on the fact that he is a truly traditional closed door sifu!

One more thing! Never ask a sifu if you can perform Ba Si! He will ask you!

Hope that is helpfull.


Regards,
Jim

[TenTigers]

I went through bai-si with my Sifu. This was at the beginning of my training, not the very beginning, though,but he knew me for 14 yrs before this, and had trained me occaisionally with his former student who was my Sifu at the time. There was a small token involved, but no large "fee". My "payment" to him was to train hard, study, and pass on the art completely intact. Period.
Some teachers charge ridiculous money for this privledge, others charge nothing. We have a bai-si ritual with our students.(they must be very serious, loyal, and dedicated, and have been in the school for at least three-five years) There is a fee, but they never have to pay again- for life. Why do I need to take their money? They have paid their dues. A dedicated student is worth his weight in gold, and will be an advantage in your school. His presence as a role model will bring in more serious students.