5,774,244 reasons why safety is important

[anerlich]

According to this story:

http://theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,4270195%255E2702,00.html

A wrestler was awarded $5,774,244 AUS for injuries sustained in a wrestling match.

The judge decided the coach was at fault. The coach only had $5M of insurance and so is now $700,000 in the hole.

Next time I see a someone post about how if you don't fight all-out without padding in training you are a wimp, I'll know I'm looking at someone who is one or more of:

1) about to be severely injured
2) about to have his a$$ sued off
3) a tough talking liar.

[Shadow Dragon]

Or.
4.) Somebody that doesn't care about their Body.
5.) Good enough not to need it.
6.) Know something you don't.

Makes me wonder what type of Gear you need to carry to protect from a "suplex" throw.

Sports Injuries happen, no matter how much protection, care, etc you take.

Old proverb "Of **** happens" comes to mind.

What is the scary thing are the payouts now required, when somebody looses a Law suit.
And how easy people attach a Price tag to things like Lifes and so on.

We are slowly but surely reduced to commodities with a price tag, and no longer human beings.

And than people wonder why Tae Bo and similar watered down "safe" MA sports are growing.

[anerlich]

I agree with what you say about personal responsibility, **** happens and the commoditization of tragedy.

The suplex is illegal in US and Canada collegiate wrestling, and the "accident" occurred during a training match supervised by the coach concerned where an Australian champion wrestler threw a beginner on his head. Bang - quadriplegia.

Like it or not, if your behaviour as a coach, Sifu, whatever, is regarded as negigent or reckless in court, you may end up paying a BIG financial penalty.

Professional indemnity insurance premiums in Australia for MA schools have more than doubled over the last twelve months. Mention that you do "sparring" or "takedowns" and you can can probably double it again. One guy I was talking to is a PT and he says his insurance will only allow him to teach MA if NO contact whatsoever is involved. Some schools will be practically uninsurable next time their insurance bill comes up.

I'm not saying it's right. I am saying that anyone who allows dangerous or uncontrolled techniques or ignore safety precautions in the kwoon (in the courts' eyes, not mine) is asking for deep trouble.

This is all just food for controversy, too, provided you're not the guy who ends up in a chair or with brain damage. If you're the loser, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of the system if you're going to require ongoing medical care.

[red5angel]

I love how this guy was out there wrestling but it was the coaches fault. Australia must be going the way of america. You see, we here in amaerica dont like to take responsibility for ourselves or others for that matter.
For instance, how about the mother who blames an online video game for the death of her son? Has to be the game, couldnt be all the emotional problems he had?! Couldnt be the fact that he just wasnt right in the head and no one was doing anything to help him!? Couldnt be she didnt notice the warning signs in time to get him some help!? Nooooooo, has to be some silly game that must be killing our children!
Our classic is the women who sued Mcdonalds for spiling hot coffe ON HERSELF! Apparently, she wasnt TOLD the coffee would be hot and so Mcdonalds is liable for damages because she SPILLED IT ON HERSELF. How doe sthat work again.

I am really getting tired of a legal system that works to protect the idiotic while allowing pedophiles and rapist to continue to commit thier crimes.

[OdderMensch]

but check your facts red.

McD's coffee was sold in cheap styrofoam cups at over 190 degrees!

http://www.atlanet.org/cjfacts/other/mcdonald.ht


Plaintiff's expert, a scholar in thermodynamics as applied to human skin burns, testified that liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a full thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds. Other testimony showed that as the temperature decreases toward 155 degrees, the extent of the burn relative to that temperature decreases exponentially. Thus, if Liebeck's spill had involved coffee at 155 degrees, the liquid would have cooled and given her time to avoid a serious burn.

on the whole i promote the examples of moronacide given by things like the Darwin Awards. We're not all supposed to make it, and its possible that you exist only to serve as a warning to others.

[red5angel]

Oddermencsh - Thanks for the link, it atleast puts some light on this one case, although I am still not sure Mcdonlads is at fault here.

"McDonald's also argued that consumers know coffee is hot and that its customers want it that way. The company admitted its customers were unaware that they could suffer third- degree burns from the coffee and that a statement on the side of the cup was not a "warning" but a "reminder" since the location of the writing would not warn customers of the hazard."

I am of the opinion that ****e does hapen and sometimes you just have to suck it up. In this case, you want hot coffee, you want to drink it while driving, then you take the risk. True, maybe it should have a warning on it that is visible for those who lack common sense, and maybe Mcd's should have addressed the issue a little sooner.

[mun hung]

I totally agree that if you want to stay in one piece during hard contact drills - protective equipment is a bright idea.

But then again - there are many schools of thought that don't prescribe to this type of training.

I have one to add to the list.

7) A person who does'nt mind training one day on - one week off.

[reneritchie]

Back about 10 years ago or so, there was a story about a guy who started taking Aikido classes in Ontario. He learned Ukemi, and was just starting on the shoulder roll, when lo and behold he broke his wrist. Turns out the guy was a famous artist just hired to do a statue for the US government. His fee was to be $250K. He lost the job and promptly filed suit against the Aikido school and teacher. (And bear in mind, this is Canada, not the US, where damage awards are generally not excessive). I believe the school went out of business.

Sure, personal responsibility is great, but in real life the personally responsible often get sued by the personally irresponsible. You can never be too careful. Even if a student or training partner comes off as a macho-meathead-beat-me-till-I'm-black-and-blue type, if you're not careful, he could easily morph into the whiny-letigiate-bloodsucker (or maybe his wife or family will sue you, or maybe your landlord, or who knows).

Be careful. Then be more careful. The human body (and mind) are both incredibly hardy and remarkably fragile. It can survive a car accident or die when hit by a baseball in the chest.

Slow and steady, step by step, progressive with constant reality checks and good legal advice is the way to go.

Rgds,

RR

[Merryprankster]

Hmm.

The Suplesse (it's a french word actually) is banned in US and Canada? Interesting. I didn't know that.

However, there is no equipment that would protect from that throw beyond a crash pad. The impact is taken at the base of the neck/across the shoulders. He should have been taught how to fall at least.

But I agree--sparring without appropriate safety gear is gay.

$5.7 Million in Aussie money--isn't that about $20.00 in a proper currency, like the US green back ;)

[anerlich]

I'm only getting the ban on the suplex from the newspaper article, and it only mentioned COLLEGIATE wrestling.

I think the guy was actually suplexed forward (i.e. onto his forehead) rather than from the back.

I think the argument in court was that the coach should have recognised the victim's inexperience, and not set him up in such a mismatch (with a national champion), and stopped the session before the dangerous (banned in US/Canada colleges!) throw was executed.

I'm not agreeing with this line of argument, just stating what happened.

The $AUS is around 54c US. If you believe our politicians, we're in a much better economic situation than the US, almost boom times. As a degree-qualified, highly experienced IT consultant who is currently unable to get an IT job after the last company I was working for imploded financially, I am finding this difficult to believe.:mad:

[rjlohan]

If you're a beginner, fighting without protection is just stupid. I walk away from lessons in pain even though we use pads. If I took one hit off an older, more experienced fighter, I'd have broken bones - at least... :p

[rjlohan]

Originally posted by anerlich
I'm only getting the ban on the suplex from the newspaper article, and it only mentioned COLLEGIATE wrestling.

I think the guy was actually suplexed forward (i.e. onto his forehead) rather than from the back.

I think the argument in court was that the coach should have recognised the victim's inexperience, and not set him up in such a mismatch (with a national champion), and stopped the session before the dangerous (banned in US/Canada colleges!) throw was executed.

I'm not agreeing with this line of argument, just stating what happened.

The $AUS is around 54c US. If you believe our politicians, we're in a much better economic situation than the US, almost boom times. As a degree-qualified, highly experienced IT consultant who is currently unable to get an IT job after the last company I was working for imploded financially, I am finding this difficult to believe.:mad:

IT just went down the ****ter since last year, didn't it? :(
Everything went to crap in the industry... - companies collapsing, weaker foreign markets... I was looking forward to a promising career when I started Uni 3 years ago - now I'll be lucky to get a job...

[anerlich]

You said it about the AUS economy. But it's weird. Consumer spending and the retail sector are booming. Overall unemployment is at almost record lows. But the professional job market, particularly IT, is stone cold. Getting contract work is impossible, permanent not much better.

We've had several major companies collapse, including a big insurance companies and the second biggest airline which had been in business for 50-odd years, plus a big phone company and lots of smaller businesses.

No consolation, but things seem worse in the US. All our pollies talk up the economy, it's quite obvious none of them have a clue how to fix its ills.

If you want a career in IT, make sure you get some certification (MCSE, CCNA, MCSD, etc.) as well as the degree if you want a job. I'm basically surviving on my wife's salary, a few dribs and drabs of work for old customers, a couple of private KF lessons a week, and studying my a$$ off to get my MCSD.

[rjlohan]

You're right. As much as I hate to admit is MS is the way to go for good money... :p

I'd actually love to get into embedded systems, maybe defense or medical software. I'm not really sure yet though, I'll take it as it comes. I'm not too proud to go back to stacking shelves... ;)

I always get sick of hearing arguments over the unemployement rate. Truth is, it'll probably never go below 5%. That is about the perfect level. ou have to account for people who can't work, and there are always a number who just won't, through laziness or whatever. I don't see the point in trying to reduce it below 5%, it's a lost cause really. There are jobs around for people who want them, just not necessarily in your favoured field...

[anerlich]

Mate, I ain't too proud either. I'll dig ditches, clean toilets, stack shelves, deliver pizzas.

I've got some savings so I can study full time while applying for every IT job for which I come close to fitting the bill (I have good Delphi, Oracle, Access experience, plus workable Perl, HP/UX, VB), but it's still not happening. But once my savings get below a certain level, I'll be taking anything I can get. It's been an interesting experience, as I've never had any trouble changing jobs before - makes you more sympathetic to those less privileged, that's for sure.

It's all very well to espouse open source, Linux, PHP, etc. while you're getting paid, but try getting another job without some MS.

[rjlohan]

Mind you though, depends where you want to focus your IT search. Obviously MS is integral to the business world, but in those other industries I mentioned, other skills are probably more useful. Solid C++ and Oracle for example. I'll definately be aiming to get my C++ up to scratch over the next few years. :p

[dezhen2001]

once my savings get below a certain level, I'll be taking anything I can get.

I know EXACTLY how that feels! Trying to survive on a government student loan to study really sucks! 'get a job' - if a) there were any jobs around and b) if i didn't have so much study to do...

hehe, good luck with it :)
david