will i ever not be sore?!!?

[respectred]

ok this is a real pain. how come the day after every single kung fu class i'm ALWAYS sore? am i like the only person who is always sore from the day befores MA class? it's been like this for a year and a half since i started, and i don't think i'm stretching wrong or anything, i stretch just fine and i usually never have any pains while doing so. i always try to get myself to practice the next day but it's a pain when i'm mad sore from the day before. what might cause this? maybe i'm just "naturally tense" or something!? i dunno, but it sucks! :)

any suggestions appreciated!

[ged]

try drinking more water/eating more protein, i think both assist in muscle recovery.

[dbulmer]

Oh boy this sounds so familiar! :)

Apart from the advice given about fluids, how about taking a break from training? To give your body a chance to repair itself!

Do you warm up before you start your training and cool down after your training?

It sounds to me as if you might be overdoing it.

[fa_jing]

YOGA. Move the lactic acid out of your muscles, without too much additional strain for the weary.

-FJ

[respectred]

thanks for the replies!

are fluids really that important!? if so, i'll drink water like crazy! how much is recommended daily?

also, i train about 3x a week in class, and usually 2x out of class, so 5x a week basically...and yeah, in the beginning of class we usually do some running which gets your nice and warmed up, then we go straight to stretching.
sometimes i get in class early though and i have nothing to do, so i stretch a bit (nothing major at all, but still a tiny bit...) completely cold. is that a really bad idea? i don't really feel that much pain when i do a real light cold stretch, i just try to ease into everything a little bit more...but if that's not recommended AT ALL, then i'll definitely stop that and twiddle my thumbs or something instead.

and cooling down...what kind of cooling down? usually we do some quick conditioning stuff at the dead end of class, and sit in meditation for a minute or two. would that small bit of meditation count as cooling down? what are other ways of cooling down?

and about yoga, that's a good idea, but i barely even have time for kung fu! 3x a week! :)

anyway, thanks again and sorry for the long post :).

-matt

[Lightning Vortex Seiryu go]

first maybe you should't try so hard, try to practice every other day and at the same time and place in the day if possible,

and second try not to practice when upset or angry, because some bad things might happen or you might get undesireable side effects also don't train if you got somthing big on your mind or some kind of life crisis, if you are going through somthing like that clear your mind then continue with your practices for best results.

and lastly yes drink more water, breath and all that stuff, then warm up your muscles by doing some warm ups and then streach, I think that you'll find my advise helpfull, tell me what ya think... :D

[respectred]

hey

it's so hard not to try hard and not practice all that i do! i'm sure you and everybody else knows how i feel hehe, we've all had injuries which made us not be able to train so we all know it's horrible, but when it's not even an injury, it's even horrible-er!!! :(

anyway, i just might take your advice on that, so hard though, i love kung fu.

thanks for the advice! :D

-matt

[IronFist]

Getting sore after a workout is not good. What if you get in a fight that day? If you're sore, you won't be in optimal condition.

As for the water, bodybuilders drink a gallon or so per day. If you're drinking this much, or even almost this much, you don't have anything to worry about. If you're not drinking this much, and desire to do so, build up to it SLOWLY. Otherwise you will be peeing every 5 minutes. But, even half a gallon is sufficient. (the 8 glasses that is recommended by doctors or whatever is half a gallon, for reference.)

For protein, for building muscle, 1g per pound of bodyweight per day is plenty. So if you're getting this much, you're fine.

You could just be over doing it. How long are your classes? How long do you train for? Maybe you need to reduce it a bit and build back up.

Just suggestions.

IronFist

[dbulmer]

At the end of the session, try some relaxed stretching. You should not need to feel any pain - just stretch enough so that you can feel it.

I think the biggest tip you'd profit from is: rest between your workouts for a while. If you still feel a need for exercise between sessions , stretch for 10 minutes or so in the morning before breakfast and early in the evening but don't overdo it.

If you are training 3 times a week in a vigourous manner that should be enough - anymore I suspect is getting you overtired at your current fitness level.

[fa_jing]

Remeber to warm up BEFORE you stretch. 100 jumping jacks should do it.

-FJ

[dbulmer]

Jumping jacks arrrrrrrrrrgh ! Not my idea of a warm up - too much stress ! Skipping rope, shadow boxing even a little dance to some music will raise your temperature plus you don't risk injury by doing it.

There are people who caution against jumping jacks believing it causes too much stress on your back and lower joints.

For WC, we do joint rotations from head to toe and then start the session with practice of technique, followed by some repetiive spar drills leading up to pad work and then free spar. ie we get progressively warmer as we lead up to a free spar. I guess for some other MAs you need to be a bit warmer but just the thought of doing jumping jacks makes me shudder.

And hello fellow WC man! Don't take my post as threat/challenge/criticism because it is not intended as that

[rael]

Massage is the way! The best way to get latic acid
out of your body is massage! As a Massage therapist I work on all kinds of athlete's if your sore take a break and get a massage, you muscles will thank you.

Rael

[Lightning Vortex Seiryu go]

all you people are so cool, anyway the true essance of life come pouring out like a huge water fall.

I love it




p.s. train all you want 2,3,4,5,... hours a day all day

just remember to rest your self to develope strength

and to ultimatly set a repititious habit for yourself

it will pay off. trust me...;)

[fa_jing]

Actually, I started doing jumping jacks cause I was bored with jumping rope. To avoid injury, just stay on your toes, don't come down on you heels. Same as jumping rope.

I think that if I'm stretching close to my max, as opposed to light stretching as part of a warmup, I need to be really warm and breathing hard before I do this. so, 100 jumping jacks, three minutes of jumping rope, two minutes of deep horse stance, any ofl these things are enough to get me going without getting tired. Even more can be better. Usually I warm up, stretch, work out, then stretch again.

-FJ

[mortal]

I was sore the whole first year. I had trouble walking the next day. I felt like I was a hundred years old at times. NEVER stretch cold. I see people do it all the time. Always warm up first. I warm up by throwing some slow stretch kicks.
Then I try to kiss my toes and kick again a little harder and higher. Depending on your age 3 times a week training might be enough, especially if it is hard training.
I still get sore but it doesn't hurt the way it did in the begining. Now I kind of like it. Always stay loose, never be rigid or stiff. It definitly contributes to your soreness. If you stretch when your sore it helps alot. I always feel better after stretching.

[respectred]

thanks everybody for the info! it's awesome!

but rael, i heard about how massage is good for you, but where can i learn more about it? or can you just give a little brief description about what i could do after class or something, b/c i have no idea how to give myself a massage.

and ironfist, i've heard (from an unreliable source) that you "flush out your nutrients" when drinking so much water, is that true? i really don't think i'm overdoing it either, i mean i go to class 3x a week for an hour and a half each class, and on my off days i usually hit my heavybag and run through some stuff from class, nothing intense.

thanks!

-matt

[Leonidas]

Thats not true, you would have to drink huge amounts of water and you would most likely puke before that happens. Nutrients and waste go 2 different places. You should drink about 6 32 0z. bottles. Start with maybe 4. You might p!ss alot at first but your body will adapt. Eat more protien too. I had the same problem as you but its not as bad as it used to be. Ironically after i stopped getting sore i didn't think i was working out hard enough but thats not true. Dont excercise on a strict schedule. Listen to your body. If it comes time for you to train and your still sore, skip that day and let yourself heal, eating a few eggs, some fish or having a protien drink will help too.

[Taone]

Respectred - YES massage is great - not only to help remove lactic acid and reduce muscle soreness, but also to stimulate cells and promote growth and repair. The best way would be to find a massage therapist, however, there are some things you can do yourself.

For two basic things you could do:
1) Stroking - for example, place your hand on your triceps, as though you are going to grab the muscle in an eagle claw kind of way. Then fairly slowly slide your hand over the muscle from the elbow upwards to the shoulder (and over that if you want). Do this as many times as you want - start fairly lightly, then do gradually do it harder and slower, putting more of a squeeze on as you go up. You can also use the blade of your hand for more direct pressure. This can be done for any muscle - just remember, always work towards the heart - this pushes the lymphatic fluid away from the extremities to where it goes to be filtered.

2) Kneading - firmly (but not in a bruising kind of way :) ) grab a muscle between either your thumb and other four fingers, or between the heel of your hand and four fingers. Think kneading dough :) Try to squeeze the muscle and lift it up a bit. This feels great if they're sore, and it's really good for them too!

You can use water or oil to make it easier if needed - sometimes a good warm/hot bath and some self-massage on troublesome massage can be great.

What normally makes the muscle feel nicest is probably good for it anyway :) Have a go, but nothing compares to a good massage from experienced hands :p - plus they can reach places like your back!!

Rael, anything to comment on or add??
You do good business in massage?? I'm still studying, will be certified end of semester - about a month or so.

And water is always good :) It's like having a shower on the inside :) Oh, and I heard room temperature or warmer water is better than really cold water, because it's more easily absorbed and utilised, more kidney-friendly :) Anyone heard anything similar??

I'll stop now... sorry about the length!!
Peace

[CrushingFist]

i believe it was iron fist who said:
"Getting sore after a workout is not good. What if you get in a fight that day? If you're sore, you won't be in optimal condition. "

i'm sorry but that's rediculous. you honestly don't think you should ever be sore from after a workout?

[Royal Dragon]

WAY TOO MUCH!!

Ok, I heard the same thing about excessive water flushing neutrients out, form a coach woh has a degree in moder exercise phisiology no less.

A normal person needs a minimum of 64 fluid ounces a day or two littl gatorade bottles filled with water.

Those of us who train alot, need more. the best way to gauge is to look at your pee wiloe your going pottty. If it's pure clear your over watering yourself, if it's dark yello, your dehydrated. What you want os an almost clear but with a slight yellow tint to it.

Make sure your color is very slightly tinted yellow, and your good to go. If it's not, then adjust accordingly. It's the most accurate hydrastion test there is short of going to the Doc's and being tested.


sometimes i get in class early though and i have nothing to do, so i stretch a bit (nothing major at all, but still a tiny bit...) completely cold.

Reply]
NO, always warm up first. I get my arms moving, then my torso, and i finnaly warmup my lower body by running inplace, only I lift my feet to my waist and clap my hands with each step. it's funny looking, but warms you up faster than anyhting. I do 108 (54 clapping each foot) of theses "Special" Kung Fu running inplace exercises. THEN stretch when your nice and hot. You can do short duration stretches, and get more out of them that way too boot.

Also, for soreness, aside from upping your protien and resting a bit more, try some Ginseng, Bee Pollen and Royal Jelly both before and after your workout. It SERIOUSLY helps with soreness, and speeds your development very noticably.