Realistic training...

[rjlohan]

There's a real focus in my WingChun classes on realistic situations. We have a guy training who was a bouncer, so he shows us alot of stuff which he reckons would be good in a reallife fight. It's often 1st level techniques, which are a bit beyond my inexperience.

Just wondering how other places focus their training?

[Nat from UK]

What do you mean by first level techniques ??

Can you explain

Thanks

Nat from UK

[rjlohan]

Ummm... use of elbows, twisting your upper body when striking, some other stuff like that. Stuff that sort of goes against what you learn as basics... which is where I'm at. Very much a beginner.
:)

[Dragonhand]

Go with the flow...You are learning to fight not dance.

[Nat from UK]

My sifu comes at this from a totally different perspective. If it is going to kick off, it is your basics that will save your a$$.


Nat from UK

[S.Teebas]

Agree with Nat here. Basics will make you the most advanced.

[red5angel]

I agree as well, the basics. If this guy who is teaching what he 'reckons' to be the most effective stuff, he may be doing more damage then good.

[rjlohan]

Nah, we do the basics as well, and I believe him when he gives us work on realistic situations. It's not ridiculous stuff like tryin' to break arms or anything - just advice on effective technique against common defenses and stuff.
We do do basics as well, and I agree that is what gets you there in the end. I just reckon having some insight into realism can be useful as well.

I was curious if anywhere else approached training at all like this?

[Wingman]

Our "realistic training" is focused on chi sao. In chi sao you will discover infinite posibilities that may happen in a real fight.

By "realistic situations", do you mean specific situations where your opponent attacks you in a certain way and you react in a certain way also?

But some "realistic situations" are not so realistic. For example a headlock. So if someone asks me how to deal with headlock I'll say that before he can execute a headlock, I'm already hitting him. Before your opponent can execute an attack, you should foil his intentions and not wait for him to execute his attack.

In that case, we seldom trained in "realistic situations" as you mentioned. Sometimes a student will ask how to counter a jab, or a hook, or a grab from behind. We show him possible counters to the attack. But we train mostly in chi sao not on specific "realistic situations".


I'll end this post with a quote from Sun Tzu's Art of War, "Therefore the clever combatant imposes his will on the
enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.

One mark of a great soldier is that he fight on his own
terms or fights not at all."

[rjlohan]

Realistic as in, let's say you meet a 'boxer' on the street - a common guard will be for him to close fists and pull his forearms up to protect his face. We were shown a good way to get to his head when he's doing that - a direct punch isn't so effective.
That sort of 'realistic'.

[Wingman]

Realistic as in, let's say you meet a 'boxer' on the street - a common guard will be for him to close fists and pull his forearms up to protect his face. We were shown a good way to get to his head when he's doing that - a direct punch isn't so effective.
That sort of 'realistic'.


Initially, I didn't fully understand you definition of "realistic". Now I get the picture, thanks for the clarification.

It is good to know your opponent's strenths and weaknesses. If you do, you'll know what works and what does not.

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in
every battle." --- Sun Tzu.

BTW, how would you hit the boxers head if he covers it with his forearms? For me, I'll attack his body so he will lower his guard. Then I'll attack the head.

[rjlohan]

Umm... I couldn't do it very well, but the Sifu made it look very convincing. Sort of an upper-body twisting strike. Hard to explain, but the idea was to control his arms, but move them out of the way enough to make room for a head strike.
Attacking his body gives him a chance to get your head - not necessarily the best option...

[vingtsunstudent]

rjlohan
do you mind me asking with whom you train in sydney.
if for whatever reason you don't wish to make it public you could send me a private message.
vts

[rjlohan]

Jim Fung Wing Chun Academy.
I don't train at the main place though - I'm at a 'branch'.
:)

[vt108]

"Hard to explain, but the idea was to control his arms, but move them out of the way enough to make room for a head strike. "

Sounds good to me.

[anerlich]

Personally, I'd listen to anyone with more experience of dealing with real or potential violence than me, even if they can't quote Sun Tzu.

Your Sifu obviously thinks this guy has something useful to offer. That should be a good enough recommendation - unless there's sometihng in particular about it that makes you uneasy?

[rjlohan]

No, nothing makes me uneasy - I actually prefer that sort of work, although I do appreciate the value in learning the 'basics' first. But, as WingChun tries to avoid - I don't like training to fight in situations which will never arise. For example, learning to do a spinning kick to someone's head may be impressive, but it's completely useless in realistic terms. Competition fighting is not entertainment is not real fighting.
I prefer to learn the latter.
:)