Wing Chun Camp Reflections

[kj]

The other thread was getting a bit sidetracked. :( So ...


Originally posted by red5angel
KJ - would you mind sharing your experiences there? I know you have mentioned it on other lists but there are a few who are not on that list who would probably be interested in hearing what went on and what you saw........

Sure, I am glad to share (as time allows). I confess it's a bit tough keeping up in the different forums. It would be helpful to know what aspects (if any) readers are actually interested in (e.g., formal topics, workout experiences, camp participants or instructors, general "camp experience", flow of the weekend, etc.). That would give me a focus point rather then writing a lot of stuff no one but me really cares about.

Perhaps some of the other forum members attending the camp may have some thoughts to share also.

I'll put my thinking cap on for stuff to tell as I contend with other demands.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[red5angel]

I would like to hear about some of the tips and "strategies" that you may have discussed. I hate to say technique but that may be a better word for it.
Also as a learning experience did you pick up anything new that has helped you at all. What I mean is did you get anything from the camp that you maybe didnt realize before or just had maybe been missing?

[byond]

hey guys(and gals),
im curious about sifu chungs forms...has he evolved them??? or are they exactly the same as when you last saw him??? what were the main focus points of the seminar???

[kj]

Well, there is too much to write, but here are a few thoughts.


Originally posted by red5angel I would like to hear about some of the tips and "strategies" that you may have discussed. I hate to say technique but that may be a better word for it.


Well, as you probably know, we're not particularly "technique oriented." :)

Let me see, as for strategies, well, Ken stressed the importance of Chum Kiu concepts and skill for the smaller, weaker party. He also stressed the "usual" concepts and themes throughout all the weekend, including:


Posture and root (kim sut, lok ma, ting yu, deng tau, mai jahng)
Position, position, position
Sensitivity and timing


Also perennial themes such as

Much of Wing Chun is in the mind
Don't be afraid to have "inside hands"
Don't aim to be powerful, rather let incidental power happen


They sound like simple topics, but constant themes for a lifetime of study.


Also as a learning experience did you pick up anything new that has helped you at all. What I mean is did you get anything from the camp that you maybe didnt realize before or just had maybe been missing?

Well, not so much new things, as new insights on old things. It's like peeling an onion. I find that everyone picks up different nuances, depending on where they are in their own personal growth and development. Some key insights for me to work on:


The shoulder of my engaged hand still wants to tense up some, and some is too much.
To "drop" the opponent (e.g., with their incoming lan sau), engagement and timing are everything.
Need to get my hands more inside against chops and high strikes.
Still use too much "strength" and don't trust my positioning and sensitivity enough.
Body unity is getting better, but needs continued improvement, with knees, body and elbows together.
There are times when I need to allow myself to root more through one leg.
Still shake my danged head when I goof up. :rolleyes:




Originally posted by byond hey guys(and gals),
im curious about sifu chungs forms...has he evolved them??? or are they exactly the same as when you last saw him???

Ken has never changed the sets since I've known him. They are the same as the other Leung Sheung students I've seen also, save for personal refinement. His sets were so smooth and together when I first met him, that I can't tell the difference between now and then, even though he no doubt continues to improve.


what were the main focus points of the seminar???


Chi Sau and more chi sau
Approaching the opponent and closing the gap
The value of Chum Kiu for women and smaller people, and review of the set
More workouts and chi sau. And then when everyone was too pooped to pop, a little more working out and chi sau. :D
Ken, Ben, Wong Siu and Jack helped, corrected and worked out with everyone all weekend long. They're still going like Energizer bunnies when the young folks are all tuckered out!


One of the really cool things for me this year, being my 5th year at the camp, was to see how much the "regulars" have grown and progressed over time. I think it is more apparent in this sort of setting than in week-to-week classes.

There is always more, but much of the technical stuff is difficult to describe unless one is already somewhat familiar with our approach, and even then challenging in the medium of text. Wing Chun communicates so much of itself through "touch" and "feel."

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Wingman]

Don't be afraid to have "inside hands"

What is "inside hands"? Why be afraid of it? Please clarify.

[kj]

Originally posted by Wingman
What is "inside hands"? Why be afraid of it? Please clarify.

An example of "inside" hands would be if your opponent has two fook saus on your arms, with your hands, forearms and elbows toward the inside of his/hers. This idea also applies to one hand, like the tan and bong part in dan chi sau; the fook, strike person would have outside hands.

Many people prefer the "outside" hands, because it feels like a stronger, more protected, and controlling position. However, well trained and positioned "inside" hands can be very threatening to the opponent. We train to be comfortable in both positions, and not give preference to "outside" hands.

So indeed, IMHO, one should not be afraid of having inside hands. :)

Hope than helps.
- Kathy Jo

[Wingman]

I agree with you KJ. Inside hands is not necessarily a weak position. It is even advantageous because your attack will travel a shorter distance; therefore it is more direct. For example, your opponent throws a punch and you counter with an inside tan sao. Your inside tan sao can easily be converted into a strike. If your opponent is not so sensitive, he may not be able to fook sao in time to counter your strike.

There are also cases when inside hands are at a disadvantage. If both your hands are in the inside, then you are vulnerable to a trap. In parallel hand chi sao, one hand is in the inside and one hand is in the outside. As much as possible, don't let both your hands be in the inside.

[kj]

You make some good points, Wingman. Even 2 inside hands is not so bad. Sometimes the trapper turns out to be the trapee. ;)

Regards,
- Kathy jo

[Wingman]

Even 2 inside hands is not so bad. Sometimes the trapper turns out to be the trapee.

Yes, it is possible to turn the tables on your opponent. There are infinite possibilities in chi sao. A disavantange can turn into an advantage and vice versa.

[Alpha Dog]

Why is it called camp? Did Ken pitch a tent?

I mean, was it really like camping with Wing Chun added or what?

[red5angel]

KJ, thanks for the info. Michael and Howard had a lot to say about it as well and all of it pretty much parallels what you say. He said it was very cool to see Ben Dur in action as well. Cant wait to go next year!

AD - Wow, given up on wise man stuff and going straight to trolling? I though that was beneath you?

[kj]

Originally posted by Alpha Dog
Why is it called camp? Did Ken pitch a tent?

I mean, was it really like camping with Wing Chun added or what?

It is held at "YMCA Point Bonita Outdoor & Conference Center" a.k.a. "Camp" Point Bonita.

There are "camp" style dorm rooms, and plenty of opportunity to enjoy beautiful scenery out of doors. The South view overlooks the Golden Gate Bridge and San Francicso, with Pacific Ocean view looking West. Lots of hiking trails, beach, wildflowers, birds, light-house and old armory buildings for exploring, city lights and ocean sunset. Breathtaking surrounds.

And yes, there is lot of Wing Chun added. Virtually round the clock, LOL.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[kj]

Originally posted by red5angel
KJ, thanks for the info. Michael and Howard had a lot to say about it as well and all of it pretty much parallels what you say. He said it was very cool to see Ben Dur in action as well. Cant wait to go next year!

Yeah, it was fun working with Michael again this year. Missed my chance to touch hands with Howard, but will count on it next year. Great guys. Yeah, Ben is awesome, in about a hundred ways. I spent a good amount of time working with him. He tries to make a point to touch everyone's hands, and spends a solid amount of time with each. Apparently Ben only missed touching hands with one person this year; he's non-stop Wing Chun, into the wee hours of the night, then up before most of us to start fresh the next morning. Wong Siu is also a total blast to work with, and no end to his energy either.

[aelward]

I would have loved to go to the camp, but unfortunately, I neither have time nor money :(

I am not from Sifu Ken Chung's lineage, but my one visit to his class a couple of years ago (when it was still in SF) was truly inspirational.

The control and approach to his "inside hands" inspired me to work it a lot in my own training. I used to be more comfortable on the outside, but sifu Chung said that "inside hands" is firmly embeded in the siu nin tao, and to not take advantage of controlling the center from that position was to loose the point of Wing Chun! watching the ease at which he captured someone's center from the inside was certainly awe-inspiring.

These days, I work a lot with "inside hands" transitioning to kuan sao as a way to control and attack and to open someone up. Without that one visit to Sifu Chung's class, I would have never been opened up to this approach. So needless to say, I would love to be able to watch from him for a couple of days!