Weight workouts/muscle building/cardio workout at the same/seperate time?

[Satanachia]

It just occured to me today to ask this question.

Is it fine to train weights/resistance and do cardio at the same time, or will they have negative effects and be better off to only train either cardio or weights one at a time for an extended period of time.

And if so, should you put on weight/muscle first and do cardio later, or work out cardio, and then put on extra weight and muscle.

[inic]

i wouldnt run with wieghts. but i box and kickbox with ankle weights on my wrists/ankles. it all depends on what exercise and make sure u never full extend your arms/legs

[Jamesbond_007]

Do you mean is it okay to do both in the same workout or at the same time? i.e. To lift weights first and then after to cardio or vise versa or to do cardio while with weights?

I have no degree or certification as a personal trainer but I try to learn as much as I can in this field and I love to workout. For me, personal, I have found that I get the best results if I lift weights first and then do cardio after. I feel that you get the best workout this way and burn the most fat. It has worked great for me. I remember reading some where (and I don't know how acurate this is, maybe Ironfist can elaberate on this because he knows a lot on this field) but if you lift weigths before you do cardio you deplete the glucose in you body. With this gone your body will get its energy from fat and burn it when you do your cardio after weights. I also do not eat anything 3 hours before I workout. I usually workout in the morning on an empty stomach to make sure I have no food in my stomach so my body won't pull energy from my food but from fat.

I don't know if this is what you are looking for but I hope it helps

[Satanachia]

I didn't mean do weights at the same time as cardio as in strap weights to my ankles and arms and go running.

I was thinking more along the lines of doing weights in the gym, then finishing off by going into the cardio room and doing running and stuff.

[IronFist]

Unless you are a complete newbie, or unless you are using the right drugs, you will not lose substantial fat AND add substantial muscle mass at the same time.

Was that your question?

IronFist

[popsider]

This interests me. I train 2 or 3 times a week (plus sport plus martial art). I normally go running first, do some weights and then stretch. Does it matter what order I do the running and weights ?

I am not really doing the weights with any intention of building mass - I just have a non-manual job and figure that I ought to give my muscles a bit of a workout 2 or 3 times a week. I tend to run between 25 minutes and an hour - varying intensity depending on how I feel and who I go out with.

[Jamesbond_007]

This is what I have read, researched and what I do when it comes to my workout. I have gotten great results from it:

Carbohydrate (glycogen) is your body's primary and preferred energy source. When your primary fuel source is in short supply, this forces your body to tap into its secondary or reserve energy source; body fat. If you do cardio immediately after eating a meal, you'll still burn fat, but you'll burn less of it because you'll be burning off the carbohydrates you ate first. You always burn a combination of fat and carbohydrate for fuel, but depending on when you exercise, you can burn a greater proportion of fat relative to carbohydrate. Doing cardio first thing in the morning (with an empty stomach) ensures your glycogen is low and your blood sugar is depleted, forcing your body for find an energy source some where else (your fat). If doing cardio first thing in the morning is not an option for you, then the second best time to do it would be immediately after weight training. Lifting weights is anaerobic (carbohydrate-burning) by nature, and therefore depletes muscle glycogen. That's why a post lifting cardio session has a similar effect as morning cardio on an empty stomach.

[Royal Dragon]

You said
"Unless you are a complete newbie, or unless you are using the right drugs, you will not lose substantial fat AND add substantial muscle mass at the same time."

Reply]
Who says? If you lift wieghts 3 times a week, and do 40-50 minutes of solid cardio exercises (Like drilling traditional forms) on the off days (3-4 days a week), your going to build alot of muscle with the wieghts, right??

And the cardio will drop wieght by burning fat, right?? Especially as you start building more muscle.

So, how does the above stament apply now?

[IronFist]

Quotes from Royal Dragon:

You said
"Unless you are a complete newbie, or unless you are using the right drugs, you will not lose substantial fat AND add substantial muscle mass at the same time."

Yup. I said that :)

Reply]
Who says? If you lift wieghts 3 times a week, and do 40-50 minutes of solid cardio exercises (Like drilling traditional forms) on the off days (3-4 days a week), your going to build alot of muscle with the wieghts, right??

What do you mean by "alot of muscle?" You're not going to get huge by any stretch of the imagination. Will you get stronger? You can, if you do it right. Will you get bigger? Probably, at first (meaning if you're a newbie). Will you develop significant muscle mass? No. Not with lots of cardio, and not if you don't significantly increase the caloric intake. And if you're significantly increasing the caloric intake to get big, why would you do cardio to burn it off? This is the reason why professional bodybuilders get fat in the off season. Because storing fat as well as muscle is the most effecient way to add muscle mass. Then for a show they will diet off the fat and try to retain as much muscle as they can.

And the cardio will drop wieght by burning fat, right?? Especially as you start building more muscle.

You're not going to put on muscle without putting on at least a bit of fat. The amount of fat you have to store will vary with your genetic metabolic rate. As far as I know, you can lift weights and do lots of cardio and try to put on muscle while staying ripped, but you will put on muscle much, much slower than if you were doing a straight up mass cycle ("cycle" here meaning "weightlifting program," and not "drug cycle").

I don't know. Maybe you're a genetic freak who can put on tons of muscle while staying as lean as a Men's Health cover model. But for most people this is not the case, and the reason is that building significant muscle mass requires a significant caloric surplus in the body, which both a) has potential to add fat and b) is reduced by cardio.

Does that make sense? If I didn't answer your question let me know.

You can still be in good shape doing weight lifting and cardio at the same time, and I'm not recommending that you don't do this. I'm just saying that with cardio and a normal diet you will not get "big muscles." You could still look good and fit, but again this is dependent upon many individual factors (mainly metabolic rate).

IronFist

[Xebsball]

Hey since we're on the topic...

Well my doctor says i have to do 1 hour cardio 5 times a week becouse i have hyposomething (sorry dont remember the name) and also to lose weight.
My new teacher says that if i could i should do some weight training since it really improves power and all...

So my question is how can i do all this?
Do you think i could do maybe like 20 mins weights and then cardio and still get more power and lose weight at the same time? (btw note that in no way i want to get bigger, the aim is stronger and less body fat) Any suggestions?

[Liokault]

Well my doctor says i have to do 1 hour cardio 5 times a week becouse i have hyposomething (sorry dont remember the name) and also to lose weight.

I would sugest that you do your run first then do weights. If you want to stronger rather than bigger i see no problem with this.

If you are really fat I would sugest that you run lots and leave out the weights till you are happy with your body fat.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Xebsball
Hey since we're on the topic...

So my question is how can i do all this?
Do you think i could do maybe like 20 mins weights and then cardio and still get more power and lose weight at the same time? (btw note that in no way i want to get bigger, the aim is stronger and less body fat) Any suggestions?

Yes. Get a copy of Pavel's book "Power to the People" and follow the program in there. It will take you about 20 minutes, which is how much time you wanted to allot in the first place. Do cardio afterwards. Weightlifting and then cardio burns more total calories than cardio and then weightlifting, plus if you do weightlifting first, you won't be tired from the cardio and will be able to lift more.

Finally, Pavel's PTP program doesn't even leave you sore in the first place, so that's another bonus. You will get much stronger with it, too.

IronFist

[Liokault]

Do cardio afterwards. Weightlifting and then cardio burns more total calories than cardio and then weightlifting, plus if you do weightlifting first, you won't be tired from the cardio and will be able to lift more.

I found it to be the other way round. I found that if i did weights first then ran all my muscles were unable to support me properly- especialy my back muscles and my knees. I must add that I didnt stay with weights for long and i am sure that IronFist is the guy to be asking about this stuff on the forum.

[popsider]

Originally posted by Xebsball
Hey since we're on the topic...

Well my doctor says i have to do 1 hour cardio 5 times a week becouse i have hyposomething (sorry dont remember the name) and also to lose weight.?

So most days you have to do an hour - that's quite a big ask - I think maybe you better get a dog and take it for some long walks.

If you decide to run, swin or cycle that much you are going to be very fit - verging on the fanatical.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Liokault


I found it to be the other way round. I found that if i did weights first then ran all my muscles were unable to support me properly- especialy my back muscles and my knees. I must add that I didnt stay with weights for long and i am sure that IronFist is the guy to be asking about this stuff on the forum.

It sounds like you lifted to failure... in which case your muscles would be exhausted and obviously this could cause problems with your running.

Lifting to failure is never a good idea, and Pavel explains why in the book I recommended. The program in the book is 2 sets of 5 reps (with no more than three exercises, but usually only two). You will never be too tired to run afterward (except maybe on the first day as your body adapts).

IronFist

[Mr Punch]

Wasn't Santanachia asking about doing slow-twitch and fast-twitch muscles in the same session, not about burning fat and building muscle?

Well, hell, if not, I am!

From what people here have said in other threads, slow-twitch (lifting muscles) are worked slowly, and bulked by doing a stoopid amount of reps at high weights, and fast-twitch (punching/kicking muscles)are worked quickly, by doing a few reps and holding each one at contraction...? Is that right? Then is it advisable/possible to build both slow- and fast-twitch in the same session?

:confused:

[harry_the_monk]

The energy systems that jamesbond is talking about is correct, the only thing that seems to be missed was his earlier point that glycogen is the bodies preferred source of energy. To get this glycogen when stores are depleted the body goes into gluconeogenisis(sp.?) which is converting lean muscle tissue into glucose. To help to avoid this a carbohydrate supplement should be taken to avoid stores of glycogen being depleted(isotonic drinks is one option.).

As ironfist says, you won't get these huge gains as a newbie, although if you stick to the training over time, the body naturally taps into the fat more as an energy source. It mainly bears down to the intensity that you are working at as well, but I don't want to go into that too much.

Also, the 1 hour a day cardio thing, build up to it, that is very intense, as popsider says, especially if you're hypo-active at the moment.:)

[Jamesbond_007]

Harry:
That is very insteresting, I did not know that. Now will supplementing will L-Glutamine help prevent this gluconeogenisis?
I know L-glutamine help prevent your muscles from going catabolic so will this stop using muslce mass as gylocose?

[harry_the_monk]

Jamesbond,

Hi, even though I am not up on this supplement, all I can tell you is that you can only stop gluconeogenisis from occuring if you have an adequate supply of carbohydrates(glycogen) to work from. This is why I always advise my clients to have some carbs before, during and after their workouts. Normally if you can manage it some solids can be good about half an hour before hand(ie banana or suchlike) during and after I normally advise an isotonic drink. You can make one from half oj half water. This tends to help top up your supply. After about twenty minutes of continuos excercise, the body tends to draw more from fat than carbs anyway. The way that muscles are is that they also store some glycogen anyway, the rest will have to be synthesised in some form when there is a lack of it.

I am not a heavy advocate of supplements as I think that when you come off them(which most people have to at some stage.) I am concerned about wether the body will still function correctly.
I would normally advise to just take a godd vit+mineral supplement but do what you can with varying your diet.

I hope I have helped, if not, I apologise but this is only my opinion based on my knowledge.

[Jamesbond_007]

Harry:
Thank you for the relpy. Once again I have never heard that before and I find it very interesting. I will definately try taking an isotonic drink before I work out.

I know what you mean about supplementation. I usaully avoid all supplements. The only one I do take is the one I mentioned above because it is an animo acid and I have done a lot of research on it. Anything else I won't take because I don't trust what it will do to the body either.

Thanks for the information you have given me. Take care