Boxing Gym

[ReverendTim]

Hey, all...

The various threads on boxing have me wondering what a workout or class in a boxing gym is like. Is it a big group thing like a karate school might be, or is it one-on-one, or what?

Just curious.

--
Rev. Tim

[shaolinboxer]

It depends.

You can sometimes take a multi-week seminar/course...say 2 hours a day, 3 days a week, for 5 weeks.

There are group instruction classes, and personal training, depending on what is offered and how much you wanna pay. And often you can just come in and use the bags and gear with no training.

[Merryprankster]

Well,

That really depends on the gym.

A lot of places, you pay a membership fee that allows access to the gym and its equipment, but you have to pay more for training with a boxing coach. So in other words, there might be a gym fee of something like $20 per month, and then maybe you train with a coach for another $20 an hour individually or maybe you can get a couple of guys together and split the rate some. A lot of places are very focused on their amateur or pro figthers and will use new guys as punching bags. If you don't quit, you get to stick around and as part of the "in crowd," they start paying more attention to your skills.

You have to understand--the attrition rate in boxing is MUCH higher than most MA's. You get hit. A lot. And a lot of people can't hack that or the workouts, which are hard. So their reticence to invest time in you right of the bat is understandable.

Now, the place I go to is different, and has an attitude I like. Dave charges me a flat rate for the month--but I don't have unlimited access to the gym. That's fine--I'm too busy to just show up and hit things at random. He teaches a class. The classes are all levels mixed, and are 1 hr and 30 minutes long. Around 1 hr and 15 minutes of that is boxing and the last 15 minutes is pushups/situps.

They consist of the following:

3 rounds warm up
1 round shadowboxing
5-6 rounds on the bags
1-2 rounds of moving around in the ring with an opponent
1 or 2 rounds on the focus mitts (murder... sheer murder. If you've never had somebody chase you down with mitts while you are required to be in constant motion while throwing punches, I HIGHLY recommend it.)
3 rounds jump rope cool down.

Rounds are 3 minutes long with 1 min rest periods.

5 sets of pushups, 30, 35, 40, 35, 30
4 sets of ab work, 100 each.



Stretching.

If you are sparring that day, you forgo some of the bag work and usually the focus mitt work. You won't need it.

Bag work includes the heavy bag and double end bag, with a variety of drills designed to get you to be able to throw punches in bunches :). There are a couple of lighter bags that I rarely am assigened to, but the lighter guys frequently use. When I'm on them, I use them to work on taking angles when I hit them because they are so light they move no matter WHAT you do unless you tap them.

I love it. Best work out ever.

[Black Jack]

I think Merry put it down perfect, most of the time its a set monthly fee, with a different fee for personal training, and a different fee for a group classes.

It can be also very clickish, the trainers pay attention to there bread and butter upcoming fighters the most, which is to be granted, just like in the asain fighting systems, you have to earn those types of guys respects, *****ing through the workouts is not one of them:D

An example, there is a boxing gym in Lombard that is run by a ex-Spetsnaz commando, he is a true and through old-school combat veteran, he once let a JKD school use his gym to train but when he saw how "lite" the workouts were, he booted the guy and his class out.

On the other hand if you go there and earn his respect, he has a behind the scenes class for street self preservation close combat skills, he simply calls it "combat boxing"-stuff he was taught in the Soviet Special Forces-but first you have to be able to show him you can get through the regular boxing training.

[fa_jing]

MerryPrankster, is that 4 sets of a hundred crunches?? After all that bag work, etc?? Seems like a lot for an amateur. Of all the things you mentioned, this kinda stuck out.
Just wondering if that's what you meant.

-FJ

[Merryprankster]

yup. 4 sets of 100 crunches. And I would say that's probably about average for boxing or thai boxing or any other combat sport.

[fa_jing]

Looks like I better get to work on those abs... Not that I train in a boxing gym, but I like to think I can step right into anybody's MA workout. Of course, I don't think I could hang on the pushups either, not after all that punching :(

Come to think of it, I couldn't hang with some traditional kung fu training, either. But at the amateur level (let's say 2-4 years experience) I can hang.

If what your describing is the average workout for someone with 2-4 years experience, I'd say, yeah your average boxing gym or muy thai gym trains harder than your average Kung Fu kwoon, which I think is a point that you make often enough.

Of course, our technique is superior anyway. :D :cool: ;)

(does a really high kick, loses balance and falls over)

-FJ

[Merryprankster]

fa_jing,

What I described is the workout I stepped into on day one. This is a maintenance workout--the base level of fitness you would require to JUST make it through three 2 minutes rounds of boxing, and have a chance in hell of winning if you went the distance.

When you train for a fight, you supplement with roadwork, or some other kinds of interval training, extra focus mitt work and more rounds of sparring.

You also do more ab work.

[fa_jing]

Strange you would say that, because I've sparred 4 x 3 minutes rounds boxing, and made it through fine. I've sparred 7 x 3 minute rounds, 3 punching, as well as 4 punching and kicking rounds. These with 1 minute rest in between the rounds. Granted, these weren't competitive, 100% all-out sessions. But, my ab strength wasn't so much of a factor. But, I always have trouble keeping my hands up when I get tired. AND, I wouldn't like to step in the ring with someone given my current level of fitness. I would like to for instance, be able to do 100 pushups straight before I ever step in the ring with someone wanting to knock my block off. I probably should be able to do 4 sets of 100 crunches, although I don't know if that would be after already tiring myself with all that punching. And I think I'll be there strength-wise in a year, and still wouldn't really be ready for a competitive bought, maybe.

Safe to say, though, that you were in shape before you walked into that gym.

On the other hand, look at the tough man competition. I don't think most of those guys are in the kind of shape you are describing. Well, that might not be the best positive example, but I could see myself stepping into that situation.

-FJ

[fa_jing]

BTW, I have done 6 rounds on the heavy bag, jumping rope 3 x 3 minute rounds is no problem at all, really done all the things you are describing but....NOT ALL AT ONCE! Only about 2 of these things at a time for me. Still, the next guy could be just like me, except that he's built up to that level. And I don't want to put myself at a disadvantage. The truth is, what you are describing sounds accurate, I'm just surprised that this is required of newbies.
Good info.

-FJ

[fa_jing]

I just realized I have another question for ya, guy. How many days a week do you do this workout, and how many of these include sparring? Also, once you finish a "station," such as the heavy bags, do you move immediately to the next item, or do you take a longer breaK, maybe 5 minutes and get a drink of water?

-FJ

[CD Lee]

Merry:

That workout sounds like a real man's, no bullsh*t workout. Man, am I glad I do Kung Fu now. :D

No seriously, that is incredible work. I don't know if I still have the b*lls to do that kind of hard work at 36. I did when I was younger.

If I knew for sure I would be taking shots, I don't think that would be as bad to get motivated.

Ok, here is a question I have for you and boxing/combat sports in general. Taking the body shots. Will doing those ab workouts give you the ability to take the body shots mostly, or the medicine ball drop on the stomach??? Always been curious as to which one does the most for taking real body shots.

[David Jamieson]

competitive boxing training is highly enhanced with kungfu training.

that is a good workout, maybe a bit much on the crunches, 400 is pretty tiring even for an "in shape" person. breaking it into 4 sets is good.

I find that crunches can be very tiring on the body and often times will see people p o o p i n g out before they are getting any benefit at all from doing them. You could use a medicine ball to increase your ab contraction and absorption skills too, although this training isn't common even in boxing anymore where it used to be.

3 minute rounds are standard and for sure 1 minute is like an hour from an angel when you are fighting full contact. 60 seconds really recharges you provided you are in shape. Kung Fu training has both continuous sparring and something like "rounds". The continuous sparring is a great workout! 10 minutes, no breaks at moderate contact is a good go, 10 minutes of full contact without any backing out is that much more difficult. When I say "backing out" I mean that both fighters are commited to the situation at hand and don't spend 7 minutes "sizing up" the opponent :D and 3 minutes fighting.

it's all good

peace

[Merryprankster]

Fa Jing--

My schedule is odd because of work. I work one week on and one week off, alternating day and night shifts--one week days, one week nights, with a week off in between.

When I box, I box four days a week. I do BJJ in the evenings on those days as well, so it's two a day practices. You get used to it.

When you are done with a station you have one minute of rest. That's it. If you need to rest a round, you rest a round, no biggie. So the "water break," doesn't really exist. Dave comes round with a squeeze bottle--that's your break--and you get going when the minute is over.

By far, the most miserable thing is the focus mitts--but it's also the most helpful, outside of sparring. You just throw and move, constantly--you throw many more punches and move more than you would in a fight--you can't discourage the trainer from coming in with jabs to the face :) Sooooo--you learn to develop a strong right to the body or you have to dance a lot more. A good strong right will go right through the body protector--but don't forget to slip, cover and take the angle, or you'll eat a focus mitt for your troubles. :D

Fa_jing--I didn't mean to suggest that you couldn't go the distance at all without this kind of work--against another boxer with a decent level of conditioning, this is the bare minimum that would get you through the fight, IMO. Remember that boxers--as opposed to people who are boxing as a way to train their MA's--tend to throw a lot of punches and move a whole lot. I personally feel that kicking and punching sparring is less work than strictly boxing--I'm not knocking anybody, I promise. I've just found that you tend to pick your shots more when kicking is included, and the footwork is less active.

CD_Lee--I spar when any of my sparring partners are there. I have, to date, done a good amount of jab sparring, which is actually a harder workout than regular sparring, and a little bit with both hands, although the amount of full sparring I am allowed to do is increasing--considering I started boxing in January, I'm fine with that pace. I don't expect miracles or to be somebody's punching bag.

To answer your question, sparring is between once and twice a week. There is a really big difference between sparring in a striking context and sparring in a grappling context. If you are sparring grappling, you can go 100% every day with a minimal risk of injury. If you are sparring with striking, I think it's hard to do that (100%) without serious risk of overtraining and injury. Maybe there are schools out there that spar 100% every day, but I'm all about taking care of myself while still making progress.

As far as the abs--yup--they REALLY help taking the body shot--it's one of the reasons you are taught to exhale when you punch, actually--it contracts your abs. The medicine ball thing is good too. Both help. Although Kung's right--don't see the medicine ball tons any more--but they both help.

[Mutant]

prankster-quote:
"I personally feel that kicking and punching sparring is less work than strictly boxing--I'm not knocking anybody, I promise. I've just found that you tend to pick your shots more when kicking is included, and the footwork is less active. "

i think it has more to do with the format & intensity. if you are comparing boxing to the common format of 'sparring' that takes place in most ma classes, your observation is correct.
but imho, adding kicks and throws while keeping the same intensity and tempo that commonly takes place in boxing...well the results in my experiece are actually considerably more exhausting than boxing. you might not get the same burn on just your arms as if you isolate to hand techniques, but i believe it is more strenuous and exhausting overall. i'm not talking about kickboxing, but more of my experience with san shou. in boxing you can clinch when you tire and steal a moments rest, but in san shou you are executing or countering a throw at that range. and i think kicking takes more energy than punching.
Mr. Yu would sometimes have us alternate rounds of san shou type sparring with just hands/boxing sparring and the boxing rounds were like a vacation compared to the san shou....granted we werent primarily boxers and my boxing pretty much sux, but that was just my experience with that sort of comparison.

mp, i'm not trying to invalidate your observations at all and i think your right on in most scenereos, but i can just add that san shou kicks your ass in the same ungodly manner.

[Kristoffer]

ReverendTim -havn't seen u in a while. How's your Judo going?

[ReverendTim]

Well, uh, see, here's the thing...uh...well, basically, my kid was born a year ago, and I haven't trained since then. Since I work 4 nights a week in the clubs, I feel bad leaving my wife alone with El Nino the other 3. The judo club I was going to had 2.5 hour classes, and the wing chun club had 3 hour classes...way too long to be out of the house AND still consider myself responsible.

However...we're finally seeing some breathing room and I'm dying to get training again. I haven't decided what or where to go...I love my old clubs, but the time issue is a real big factor. A place close to here has way shorter classes in muay thai, grappling, and boxing. I can't decide if I want to switch or not. But that's why my sudden questions about boxing have come up...

So the judo WAS going great...I still can't believe how much I liked grappling after hating junior high wrestling so much.

--
Rev. Tim

[fa_jing]

MutantWarrior - good point. One thing we've noticed, is that when we start grappling more, sometimes taking it to the ground (no hard throws because we train on a hard floor), we end up using a lot of energy really fast.

-FJ

[Merryprankster]

mutant--

I've done some San Shou style sparring with the throws, and I agree one hundred percent with what you say.

Without though, I think there is more of a pick the shot--ah well, just something to think about. :)

[ReverendTim]

Da*n you, Merryprankster!

You just HAD to post that workout...
You just HAD to say it was a baseline level of fitness to go to a boxing gym...
You just HAD to brag about how good it was...

Last night, as I was trying to see if I could do it (p.s. no I couldn't), all I could think was "Must...get...stronger...to...kick...Merryprankster 's...a$$...for...posting...workout..." ;)

I did okay cardio-wise (only okay...I was sucking air pretty hard at the end), but my punches got pretty weak, and there's no WAY I could do them pushups after everything else.

On the plus side, now I have a new goal...I'm gonna do that sonofabiching thing every other day until I can just stroke on through it.

--
Rev. Tim

[phantom]

Guys, do all boxing gyms teach you moves that are strictly for street self-defense which are not allowed to be used in the ring? Thanks in advance.

[Merryprankster]

Ah well Rev--don't worry--you'll get used to it.

If it makes you feel any better, I can't get through the pushups. But my arms are almost three feet long, so that's a long way to travel.

Here's what'll really get you--some of those guys use weighted gloves the entire time :)

As far as boxing goes, I can't think of anything less damaging to your body that will get you in better shape--think about it--without the sparring you're kicking the crap out of yourself and getting a hell of a workout! :) Just the thing, I think. If you spar some other style, you can still benefit from that type of training, and it's pretty easy on the body.

Guohen--most boxing gyms are boxing gyms--they teach you to box and that means you won't get any "fouling tactics" as part of your education--which is obviously not the same as self-defense.

[Suntzu]

"but i can just add that san shou kicks your ass in the same ungodly manner."

amen, brother, amen...u coming to Coach Liu's in June, right ???

[lowsweep]

Phantom: One of the first things i ever heard from my teacher (westpoint boxing team member, undefeated in amateur) was "This isn't some wussy self-defense or how not to get raped course, this is boxing. It's a sport, just like anything else. If you want to learn to box, I'm going to expect you to train a whole lot." If he ever sees you getting too sloppy or throwing non-boxing punches, he either yells at you (Adam, get your ****ing hands up before I clock you") or he hits you (lightly but not too lightly..). I love it, makes you into a good boxer, and if you get good enough i doubt you'll want to throw anything but hooks, jabs, and crosses with all the power you'll have. There's a karate class that uses our room (I box in a local non-boxing gym. They give us boxers a room and a couple bags and leave us alone) and the other day they brought their students in just to watch us hit the bags and say thats what their power can be like if they get good enough, and most of the people on the bags that day had been boxing no more than six months.*

*Not to diss karate or anything, I know there are plenty of karate guys that can fight.