CLF and Springy Power?

[Fu-Pow]

Here's a question.....

The Chan Family system stresses the internal sets and the sticky hand excercises. Do these train "springy power?" This is generally a concept that comes from the "internal" arts, but if you don't make that distinction then all Chinese arts should have this concept. I've noticed that the Chan Family CLF has standing meditation excercises which definitely look like the excercise that the "internal" arts do.

It seem to me that there are several levels of training. All are important to being a good martial artist.

These categories are muscle training (concentric contraction, which is associated with tone and strength), tendon/ligament training (which is the elastic power that I mentioned before) and energy training ( which is the ability to direct the energy of the body using the mind and breath, you might also call this psychological training.)

There are of course other things but I'm talking specifically about body mechanics.

Yau Sam

[Jimbo]

Fu-Pow:
I can only reply from my very limited experience of Sifu Chan Yong-Fa. I took only a 2-day seminar with him, and am sure others more familiar and qualified will respond.

Sifu Chan Yong-Fa has an amazing springy power. His power is relaxed, extremely quick, and almost appears rubber-like. I have seen few other masters in any system, that I can think of at the top of my head, who can move to the same degree of springiness. This of course does not mean other masters are not great; only my impression of seeing his movement (to the degree he would show) over the two days' seminar.

Jim

[Fu-Pow]

Thanks, Jimbo, that's what I thought. Funny how when I bring up a legitimate question I only get one response.

[premier]

Fu pow

There's not many people in these forums familiar with the internal sets. That's propably the reason =)

[yik-wah-tik]

do you mean the springy power like taking and absorbing a blow and boing bounce right back.

i don't know how that fits. but i like the whipping power of the blows. one does not have to be very large to get off a devestating blow. it's the speedy whipping action. but i also like the power from the floor up, that comes from a strong sturdy horse. don't get me wrong, i am very moble, and don't plant until i attack. the power comes up from the floor to demolish your opponent.

frank

[JAZA]

Fu Pow
I'm just beginning learning 18 lohan hands, and it's what you said to stress then to relax, almost very good for my knee, combined with the breathing, that's why it's chi kung :)

[Fu-Pow]

Hmmmm....I might have lost some of you people that don't play Taiji.

There is definitely a loose, whipping like power in CLF.

This what you would call centrifugal force.

It would be like if you had two bricks attached to a rod by rope and you spun the rod.

What I'm talking about is making your body stretchy and elastic.

There is no real tension at any point.

This is how the internal styles work. If CLF is "internal" in the same way as Taiji is internal it would also have this concept.

There is also the Hung Ga "Iron Wire" concept of internal which is to tense and then relax through a motion. But this is quite different.

[yutyeesam]

hmmm. Chan su jing and fa jing in CLF? How? I could see doing forms slowly with intent, as done in tai chi, but I don't know what that'd do for someone's development.

I don't know if structurally CLF can accomodate this as well as Taijiquan...For one thing, in CLF, the weight shifting (both physical and intent-tional) is not nearly as dynamic (back and fourth to a variety of degrees).

I know I'm being radical here, but I don't think CLF was designed to be internal, at least, not the way Taiji or Xing Yi is. I understand you can get some internal benefit after many years of practice of CLF...but it seems that is more a by-product than an actual goal?

just my curiosity/pondering. Would be interested to know the perspective of those who study internal CLF forms.

123

[Fu-Pow]

Yut Yee Sam-

Do you play Taiji? You seem to know what I'm talking about.

I definitely think that CLF has Chan Si Jing or "silk reeling energy." In fact most, if not all CMA's have it.

But I think what CLF does not have is what is referred to as Chou Si Jing or "silk pulling energy." It is the sensation of pulling apart in all directions so that your joints open up and your body becomes spring like. It also relates to the 6 harmonies where the shoulders/hips, feet/hands and elbows/knees all line up and feel connected. CLF definitely violates many of these principles.

I did notice that the Chan Family stuff has some 60-40 horse stances which seem to be more associated with internal.

I guess there are a couple different ways to define "internal." The CLF seems to me to be closer to kung fu yoga or trying to more energy around the body with the mind rather than devloping this springy power. The Hung Ga "internal" seems to be related to breathing but also muscle tension.

[CLFNole]

Fu-Pow:

The term we always use is "loose" power. This has kind of internal power aspects. I also play tai chi (fu style) and I agree tai chi energy & power is somewhat different.

Our CLF energy is loose and explosive. Like you said different from Hung Gar's dynamic tension energy.

I don't think this is something that is easily taught but rather much more of an aquired feel. The same can be said for weapons especialy staff were a lot power is generated through proper technique and feel.

Peace.