what really is Shuai Chiao

[cybermantis]

I have heard about this art and many martial artist that I have spoken with tell me this is a deadly art? Could someone who trains in the art give me more detailed info on what the art actually is like? Like the training sessions? What do you actually learn? What type of techniques does the style use? like locks?
holds? sweeps?groundfighting?etc..
How about multiple attackers?
Does anyone have a video clip of Shuai Chiao in action? Could what you learned be used in a real life situation in a short period of time if the situation ever occured?
Does it have an internal side to the art?

[Le nOObi]

Many people believe this style is the foundation of jujutsu. Its a traditional CMA that is all about grappling. It was created for combat and not for sport it is mostly grappling but it has kicks and punches as well. Its was commonly practiced in northern china and mongolia.

[Water Dragon]

www.combatshuaichiao.com
www.shuaichiao.org
www.changshuaichiao.com

Video clips are in the second site.

[Former castleva]

Don´t take me too seriously about this,as I may not remember very well,but...
Been told that shuiai chiao (also known as "chinese wrestling") is actually foundation of judo and chin-na is one of jujutsu´s.
But I guess wrestling is kind of a part of chin-na,but that´s just my opinion.

[Axiom]

I have no idea what the origin of Jujitsu is, but Judo is a descendant of Jujitsu.

[Mr Punch]

Jujutsu is supposedly one of the native mainland Japanese arts. Daito-ryu Aikijutsu, for example, was first codified in the 11th century, so arguably was around for a while before then. There are other examples too, but I can't remember them.

Of course you could argue that everything in Japan could eventually be traced back to Chinese/Korean origins, but I think that would be a bit disingenous. BTW the origins of Daito-ryu are said to come from watching the movements of a spider (!) in the sixth/seventh century! How's that for an animal style!!:D

[JWTAYLOR]

Shuai Jiow is about throwing. All about throwing. Throwing people down hard, on their head, wihout support.

The idea is to hit the person with the biggest thing around. And that's the ground.

I've trained in Chang Style Tai Chi, which is VERY Shuai Jiow oriented, I use the throws in sparring, and I've seen it in action. In all cases, very effective.

If you need more information than what Water Dragon has posted then I suggest you go back and wask Water Dragon. He's the leading SJ proponent here.

JWT

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by JWTAYLOR

If you need more information than what Water Dragon has posted then I suggest you go back and wask Water Dragon. He's the leading SJ proponent here.
JWT

Actually, I'm nothing more than a very enthusiastic beginner. There are at least three high level players on this board though. All I really do is train as best I can, maintain a mailing list, and try to point people to places that I feel present a clear interpretation of the art.

But thanks anyway JWT :D

[SevenStar]

I think JWT unknowingly rasied a good point - where you train it. Some people learn it as a subsystem of another style, like the numerous people that learn it while training in Taiji. There are others that train exclusively in shuai chiao. There may be some difference in the way it is taught and how it is trained.

[Royal Dragon]

From what little I have seen, Shui Chiao is just like Bjj, only when you get them on the ground, they are already dead or crippled so there is no need to "Snugggle":D

[SevenStar]

nah, bjj really doesn't have any extensive throws. I'd liken it more to judo.

[Water Dragon]

You really can't liken BJJ to Shuai Chiao. BJJ aims to take the opponent to the ground and finish them there by breaking a limb, strangling them, or beating them into submission. Shuai Chiao attempts to maximize the damage taken during the fall to end the fight.

It would be an apple to oranges comparison. They are very complimentary, yet very different animals.

[origenx]

Does not shuai chiao literally mean to fall in Mandarin?

[JWTAYLOR]

I know it means pain in the streets.

JWT

[MonkeySlap Too]

Shuai Chiao is a generic term for wrestling in China. I was talking to a pretty impressive Xing-Yi guy from Beijing a few weeks ago, and he thought I meant greco-Roman when I said Shuai Chiao. It wasn't until I tried 'Baodin Kuai Chiao' that he knew I was a kung fu guy.

Shuai Chiao in terms of Chang Tung Shang's martial arts 'style' and Shuai Chiao as a form of folk stand-up grappling and 'shuai' as on of the main components of combatives in CMA all refer to slightly different things.

I think WD and SS can describe it better as I'll go right into all kinds of arcane digressions....

ShuaiChiao.org has some good clips on it. You can get an idea of the flavor.

Watching Shuai Chiao as just grappling can be pretty boring if you are not into stand-up grappling - the Chinese version of watching to BJJ'ers hug on the ground - at least sometimes.

In free fighting, it can be pretty dynamic. Alhough with equally matched players it becomes a chess game just like any art.

On the street, it is very effective. Shuai Chiao techniques are at the core of military san da and the Taiwan police train Shuai Chiao (or judo!) as the martial arts of choice for dealing with street ruffians.

Not everyone teaches the multiple attack strategies. Just like anything you need to look closely at the teacher. Not all Shuai Chiao players have the same emphasis or knowledge. Beware of the ones who exclusively beat thier chests, but don't associate with anyone outside thier group.

[Water Dragon]

And now of course for my plug. Anyone who would like to learn more about this wonderful art is invited to join the Shuai Chiao mailing list at groups.yahoo.com. Here is the link to register.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shuaichiao

Or you may send me a private message with your e-mail address.

You do not have to be a practioner to join, but please come with an open heart.

[SevenStar]

I was wondering when you'd plug the mail list ;)

[SevenStar]

"Shuai Chiao in terms of Chang Tung Shang's martial arts 'style' and Shuai Chiao as a form of folk stand-up grappling and 'shuai' as on of the main components of combatives in CMA all refer to slightly different things. "

MS2 was dead on with that. People say "I know shuai chiao" when really they are referring to throws in their system that are found in shuai chiao. That's like a kareteka learining a few throws that are contained in his kata and saying " I know judo." Shuai chiao has techniques, training methods, etc., just as does wing chun, longfist or any other CMA. The shuai chiao found in other styles and the shuai chiao style, while similar, are not the same.

[roughnready]

its more like ju jit su

[SevenStar]

why do you think that?

[ewallace]

Ignore RnR's post 7*. He was warned about trolling these threads soon after that one.

[SwaiingDragon]

thank you seven star - you are correct- many do belive they know shuai jiao because they shuai (throw).

Swai Jiao consists of punches, kicks, joint lock, pressure points & throws- the object to imobilize your opponent- like many kung fu systems we have no desire to go to the ground- but do have some ground techniques

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

Just to through in a thoery I never hear much in Ken Cohens book The Way of Qi Gong he claimed JuJitsu devoloped from tai chi. I thought It was interesting and he gave more info on the conection between the 2 styles. It's a good book too.